Flipperjan and Sgc thanks for the input. To give you an idea of my training and what I do. I am a paddleboarder. I paddle a board made for open ocean conditions with just my hands laying down like a surfboard or on my knees doing a double handed stroke. My race season consists of races that range from 3.5 mile sprints to 32 mile races. So I am limited by what I can take with me in terms of fuel, at least on my training runs which comprise the majority of my time on the ocean within a season. Also your fuel almost always has to be in liquid form to reduce the time you don't paddle to intake your fuel. Consequently the common method is to have bottles of fuel on your board with a sipping tube. Draw off the tube and you get your fuel and you can still paddle. Missing one stroke at a key momnet can mean the difference between 1st and 2nd.

Furthermore, I do not consume huge amounts directly before my races. In fact I usually make sure eat very little within the last 1.5-2 hours before the longer races. Everyone has their pre-race rituals and I have mine. The ocean can get rough on some of my training runs and races, so whatever you ingest you have to make sure it is just enough, not too much not too little, cause if you puke you're day is over.

In terms of muscles, as many of you probably know soreness is directly related to damaged muscle tissue, and protein or more correct amino acids help repair this damage. A good stretching program and/or yoga can also help. But I know of no paddlers out there that go on 3-4 hour training runs and have no amount of soreness. Sure there are novices and veterans and maybe some have more soreness than others, and maybe some more significant early in the season. But we all have it, it is a sport that is not easy on you body in many aspects and it is just part of the game. Canoe paddling is the same way, along with many other sports.

Some might be quick to compare paddleboarding to some other sports, but there is no comparison what so ever. There is no sport like it in the world. The combination of being in the open ocean exposed to all the elements, the positions you put your body in and hold for hours on end, and that fact it has sprinting and endurance all in one. If you have done it seriously you will agree, totally unique.

In terms of protein catabolism, and fuel. If your expenditures exceed the maximum amount of fuel your body can process per unit time, you will experience protein catabolism and muscle breakdown, bottomline. I believe the average for the amount of carbs the human body can process/hour is 80g, give or take. Sure if I could prevent this I would, but the nature of our sport is that the majority of the time this is not feasible.

Sure you could take a ton of bottles and have as much fuel as you could ever want. But you won't be coming in at the front of the pack with all that weight and how it can effect how your board paddles, guaranteed. In our sport we will always have some degree of soreness at various points in our season. For the paddlers who train seriously it is a weekly occurrence, sometimes daily depending on the training schedule.

I absolutely agree eating the right things before and more importantly after training and races can help in recovery. But for me and others in my sport protein and aminos is a vital part of that process, because of the muscle breakdown we inevitably suffer.

Fuganetti Wrote:


> In terms of muscles, as many of you probably know
> soreness is directly related to damaged muscle
> tissue, and protein or more correct amino acids
> help repair this damage.

there are several reasons for soreness.

what you are not considering is eating non foods like cooked foods and other so called foods


> In terms of protein catabolism, and fuel. If your
> expenditures exceed the maximum amount of fuel
> your body can process per unit time, you will
> experience protein catabolism and muscle
> breakdown, bottomline. I believe the average for
> the amount of carbs the human body can
> process/hour is 80g, give or take. Sure if I could
> prevent this I would, but the nature of our sport
> is that the majority of the time this is not
> feasible.

protein needs do not exceed caloric needs, relatively speaking.

as i said, there is an expert on the vegsource raw board, dr graham, who has personal experience to lend, as well as extensive training of professional athletes.

Fuganetti - that sounds absolutely amazing. I can see that you are totally dedicated to your sport and I totally understand that. I love running.

I can't offer anything that you don't already know in terms of carrying fuel with you but one idea kept creeping in when you talked about muscle soreness being inevitable. I know the girl who just won the British Ultra Marathon - five days and nights running on two Scottish islands - real tough stuff. Her husband is her trainer and is very technical - you know hooks her up to machines to test blood gases etc. Anyway he won't let her do all her training as running. He says that runners tend to run themselves into the ground literally so he gets her to do loads on the bike and rower. So - would other types of training be helpful for you. Maybe you do loads of different stuff anyway - it's just a thought.

Also, as has been mentioned, I think it might be very interesting for you to get in touch with Brendan Brazier. I know it is a different sport but sporting people tend to know other sporting people and someone somewhere might be of help to you.

I realise that you are convinced about your protein and amino's being at such and such a level but remember that someone always breaks the mold and finds a new way of doing things. I'm not very good at explaining things but I know that many athletes are achieving incredible things at the top levels in their field in a way that most other sportsmen think isn't possible. My sister, herself a marathon runner, told me that I would never do a marathon on a raw diet. I beat her personnel best with my first marathon (I was very good though and didn't crow!!)

I also understand that you probably are reluctant to change anything in case it detrimentally affects your performance. Just keep an open mind about this protein stuff and talk to the people mentioned on this thread.

All the very best to you.
Philippa

Hi Fruganetti,

I've done local fun 3/4 mile paddle races (20+ minutes for me) across the harbor, in the prone or kneeling position using the double stroke.. even in the shelter of the harbor sometimes dealing with wind, chop and current makes it a heck of a workout with muscles I seldom use.. expending a lot of energy it seems in the kneeling position especially..

Kenyan runners have been discussed on this board recently, noting that their propertions of carbs, fat and proteins are comparable to the 80/10/10 diet.. with the Kenyans eating about 12% protein (omni); coming to training camp sometimes 25 lbs overweight and eating their traditional diets, and drinking lots of tea with cream and sugar "carb loading" their muscles immediately after workouts in preparation for the next workout (which I know only gets you so far), and running themselves back into shape. I guess it's in their genes to run well.. and their traditional diet works well enough..

Anyway, I can appreciate in small part what you do, the length of your races and intensity and duration of your workouts.. loeve

Hi Fuganetti
To give you an idea of what I mean by missing fuel to start eating up your muscle: I ride mountain bike, and go for 4 to 5 hours rides. Be sure in winter time, it's pretty harsh riding in the cold and the mud. Like you I have my rituals, and one of them is not to eat before riding. I go on in the morning, not eating, and not eating during the ride, just drinking water (like you, I don't want to carry food, it's just weight to carry up the hills).
But I don't have any muscle soreness after rides, and can still work on my farm and building my house in the remaining time of the day.
But when I come back, I have a huge fruit meal, and sweet fruits, dense, not like apples... And again in the evening, other quite large meal. Just to refuel the loss of glycogen in the muscles. All raw of course.
And it works.
Take what you want from this, but I just share my experience.
Cheers

Raw Fruit Festival
[www.raw-fruit-festival.net]
Health, Fitness and Fasting Retreats in Spain
[www.fit-in-nature.net]

SGC you are the man...to ride 4-5 hours and not have any soreness good on ya. I do believe that the more you do something the more your body gets used to it, its pretty standard among most things we as humans do. I don't get nearly as sore as I used to on paddles, and according to you...you have eliminated soreness all together, something I strive for. I just have one question, do you have a regular route on your rides? Also what percentage are you pedaling at in terms of intensity, 60? 70? 80? etc. and does this change and to what degree(s)

I would say is that there is very different anatomical stresses placed on the body in mountain biking versus paddleboarding, having done both extensively. While I do not believe it impossible to attain the level you have in mtn. biking in the sport of paddleboarding. I feel that level is a little more in reach within mtn. biking. Particularly with respect to the stress on ones neck in paddleboarding. Not to take away what so ever from you level of conditioning or the amount of stress on the body in mtn. biking. I'll just say if you ever get the chance to paddleboard both prone and knee paddling, try it and I think you'll agree with me, the anatomical stresses are very different. Thank you very much for the inspiration!

Phillipa, for x training I primarily run, swim, row, bike, and do yoga (when I can) You definitely have to change it up to be a solid competitor as this girl just proved. Ultramarathons are so bad ass, I only wish we could do that in paddleboarding, and we can but paddling at night is pretty sketchy....any takers?
I totally agree with about breaking the mold and finding better ways to achieve goals. I also believe if its not broke don't fix it. This usually comes into play one my season is full bore. If I make any changes in my routine they usually are done very early in the season before our races start, prior to that I usually tweak my nutrition a little. Maybe this year I will experiment with some of the ideas I have gotten here. Thanks