I thought some of you might like to see what, one of my all-time Heroes, Tonya Zavasta eats in a typical day. It seems like it would be very filling for a Calorie Restricted Diet. You can view it on her video clip...."Calorie Restriction on Raw Foods". Be prepared for her Russian accent.....WY

[www.beautifulonraw.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2010 12:26PM by Wheatgrass Yogi.

I love her. She might be my favorite famous raw foodist. I love her background in science, I love how kind she is, I love how much of a living testament she is and how she makes CRON sound so accessible and even appealing. I know when I overeat I'm really damaging my body because I can feel it, and I know when I eat raw foods I feel great, I could go on and on about it.

I'm using my non school less stress summer vacation time to train my brain so by the time school starts again I'll have been raw for more then 8 days at a time and will have lost some poor eating habits. Before I can stop overeating, I need to be raw, I've figured that one out already. Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought some of you might like to see what, one
> of my all-time Heroes, Tonya Zavasta eats in a
> typical day. It seems like it would be very
> filling for a Calorie Restricted Diet. You can
> view it on her video clip...."Calorie Restriction
> on Raw Foods". Be prepared for her Russian
> accent.....WY
>
> [www.beautifulonraw.com]

Caloric restriction has been tried on the forum before. Paul McGlothlin and Meridith Averill the authors of the CR WAY were subject to criticism by the fruties and so hearing it from Tonya is refreshing, but btdt. Best

Paul

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .....Paul McGlothlin and Meridith Averill the
> authors of the CR WAY were subject to criticism by
> the fruties and so hearing it from Tonya is
> refreshing, but btdt.
"Been there, Done That"? You might share a little
of your experiences.
It was interesting to see a Champion Juicer, and a Vita-Mix
Blender, in the background of Tonya's kitchen.....WY

Calorie restriction is just another form of anorexia. Ive seen people die, commit suicide, lose teeth, hair, sanity, fitness and sex drive.

Tonya is clearly eating more calories than what is in the video.

I wrote my opinion of Tonya's vid here.
[www.30bananasaday.com]

Durianrider, there has actually been allot of studies done on calorie restriction, and at least in mice they have proven that a diet dense in a variety of nutrients, but almost no calories, ended with much much much healthier mice, with something like over a 90% reduction of cancer rates and other conditions within the mice, as of yet there have not been any good studies done on humans, but it is impossible for some one to lose teeth or hair on a low calorie diet as caloric intake has nothing to do with the health of your teeth or hair, sanity, who knows, die, well its not possible from malnutrition, committing suicide is always possible, as is a loss of fitness or sex drive, but none of those behaviors or conditions where reported in any of the mice...

I really dislike saying this, but some of your statements smack of propaganda more than anything else... Not saying your wrong though, since there have been no long term studies done on humans, there's no way to know for sure yet how it would effect us long term, but I eat on average maybe 800 calories a day give or take over the last 6 months, and I am considered by far the healthiest amongst my friends, my stamina is far beyond theirs, some are on the SAD, some are vegetarians, a couple are vegans...in fact I feel healthier than I ever have be4 in my life, with allot more energy... now this Isnt as low as some people I've heard of, but its still pretty dang low... and I believe as I become closer to 100% raw I will most likely feel even better... chances are I will never go past 90% though,lol...

CR isn't just another form of anorexia, sorry. Talk to an anorexic and talk to Tonya Zavasta, someone who clearly practices CR correctly. You'll see a very striking difference in mentality, motivation, and knowledge. It doesn't mean cutting down your intake to 700 calories of packaged food. Haven't you noticed that you need less highly nutritionally dense food the longer you've been eating it? People are people, who says their diet makes them commit suicide. There's easily a wrong way to go about this, but I think people eat way too much and eating like Tonya wouldn't be any worse than a SAD eating person.

You eat only 800cals a day? Your anorexic or soon will be.

Here is a vid about calorie restriction I did..

[www.youtube.com]

Im 5'8" and pretty steady at about 180 pounds, hardly anorexic, and ive been at around 800 (some days im as high as 1,000, or at a birthday party a few weeks ago, im pretty sure I hit at least 1300) calories for around 6 months or so now, and havnt lost any weight, anorexia isnt low calorie, its low nutrition, my ex died from complications from REAL anorexia, I eat low cal, but high nutrition as much as I can, as im starting to workout more again, I will probably up my caloric intake to around 1500 on average to help with muscle growth, maybe higher if I really get into the swing of things again...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

no offense durianrider, but i've seen you on other forums and you are always judging what people eat and how much, and accusing people of being anorexic. i don't think it sends the right message across and i'm sure that you are just trying to help people. just a thought/suggestion, you might want to figure out your purpose and try to help people in a more peaceful and positive way. but again to you, i do not mean to offend, everything in love and breed peace and harmony i feel tempted to say, let us live by quiet example.

WY,

I have 3 main dietary influences in my life, none of them dominant: 1) raw veganism, living foods - Cherrie Soria, Brenda Davis, Vesanto Melina, 2) nutritarianism, Joel Fuhrman, and 3) Caloric Restriction, Paul McGlothlin & Meridith Averill. I prefer a science based approach to managing our health as opposed to the "nature" mantra. Tamukha and I irrespective of our differences on other issues I think agree on the basic proposition that natural selection doesn't per se optimize human longevity. Why would it? Natural selection is designed to assure survival of the species (i.e. reproducing age), not the individual. There is no survival advantage to a species to have a high proportion of individuals become cententarians, though that is my goal. My skepticism about discussing McGlothlin and Averill on this forum is that the pair have been subject to ridicule about their appearance in spite of their phenominal biomarkers and overall health. So, ordinarily, with the pro-frutie bias this forum has which they oppose, I would think it's a fool's errand to present their data only to become subjected to more ad hominems. There are a lot of fruities on this forum who judge books by their cover. No matter. Their book is the CR way [www.amazon.com] Their website is [www.livingthecrway.com]. And the best video on Paul is [www.youtube.com]. btw, as an aside, there is a wonderful video, long, on the cause of the obesity problem, isolated fructose (not fruit). And that video is here, [www.youtube.com] Bottom line, caloric restriction has been received on this forum, at least in the past, in a hostile manner. Person x looks like y, therefore the whole concept is debunked. Some people look at Paul and Meridith and make judgements based on their appearance. That's fine. People are entitled to their opinions. The science, the specific science of gene regulation and down regulating aging genes and up regulating life enhancing genes goes against much of what this forum stands for, consuming whole foods and letting nature take its course. I have no doubt in my mind that a raw vegan whole food diet can be a very healthful diet, though the reasons one may choose to follow it may be health related, ethical, ecological or a combination. Paleo humans were not frugivores, and that line of reasoning doesn't bare much fruit in what the best chess move into 100 years is today, that's caloric restriction. There is no alternative. Best.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2010 07:25PM by pborst.

Here is the prior thread: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WY,
>
> I have 3 main dietary influences in my life, none
> of them dominant: 1) raw veganism, living foods
> - Cherrie Soria, Brenda Davis, Vesanto Melina, 2)
> nutritarianism, Joel Fuhrman, and 3) Caloric
> Restriction, Paul McGlothlin & Meridith Averill.
> I prefer a science based approach to managing our
> health as opposed to the "nature" mantra.
Paul....Nice job at presenting your point. I think you're right-on when you say most who post here are on a High Fruit Diet, and are intolerant of anyone who isn't. I remember the abuse Richard Blackman took at this Forum when he went Breatharian.
May we all have the courage to do what we know is right, regardless of what others say. I'm leaning towards a Raw CR Liquid Diet, supplemented with Chlorella and Spirulina.....WY

WY,

I think it depends on how one presents it--you and Paul Borst are being thoughtful and prudent in your approaches and your reasons are your own; Richard Blackman was a bit in-your-face! and though I like him, it might not have had the right appeal for "moderates." And as far as pro-fruitism goes, ol' durianrider seems to be getting a lot of flack for his vehement pro-high-fruit/calorie stance with his recent posts here, so, everybody got they somethin' . . .

Harley (Durianrider) has taken heat for his statements regarding caloric restriction on this thread. But he's probably the exception that proves the rule, there is a pro-fruit, Doug Graham, 8-1-1 bias on the board that inhibits broader discussion. Tamukha, I know you probably do not agree. But that is my perception. Best.

Paul

WY,

I felt that I owed to you to look at what originally posted. Wonderful! Tanya does look incredibly good for 52. I bought and read Quatum Eating, though dry fasting remains limited for me. Wrt, to caloric restriction, no debate. Noone else has data coming anywhere close. Humans live too long for statistically valid random controlled trials but the weight of the existing animal and human data is compelling. Caloric restriction works.

Paul

I'm too busy enjoying life to restrict my calories/intake.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm too busy enjoying life to restrict my
> calories/intake.
Enjoy it while you can. There's a price to pay down the road....WY

If you're somehow extrapolating that my non-calorie restriction or starvation lifestyle will hypothetically cause me to live to be 80 as opposed to 85, I'm fine with that. I never said I wanted to live longer. Maybe that's yoru goal.

W Yogi wrote 'I'm leaning towards a Raw CR Liquid Diet, supplemented with Chlorella and Spirulina.....WY

I thought about this comment when I was reading my new book 'Becoming Raw' by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina

In a section called Diet and detoxification they discuss the role of fibre - probably you need to read the while chapter but hopefully this small extract will make sense.

'Each day the liver manufactures about a quart of bile, a carrier through which many toxic substances are dumped into the intestine, where this toxic load is absorbed by fibre and excreted in the feces. A diet low in fibre results in inadequate binding of toxins; in such cases toxins may be reabsorbed. fortunately, raw vegan diets are always high in fibre'

I realise you may think you have got to a point where you have no toxins so I will just quote another bit that may be of interest.

'Liver detoxification involves 2 steps: Phase 1 and Phase 2. The enzyme activity of these two phases must be well coordinated, because intermdiary compounds that form during phase 1 can be even more troublesome than the original toxin. If these inermediary compounds are not quickly processed in Phase 2, damage, such as cell injury or the development of cancer, can ensue'

It goes on to explain how all this works but would take ages to copy out - as I understand it fibre is a very necessary component for all this to work well and I'm a little worried about your aim. I understand CR liquid diet to be fibre free assuming you are talking about juices rather than smoothies. I'm sure you've considered all this but I thought I would mention it as I am on a learning path and would welcome your thoughts



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2010 08:17AM by flipperjan.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're somehow extrapolating that my
> non-calorie restriction or starvation lifestyle
> will hypothetically cause me to live to be 80 as
> opposed to 85, I'm fine with that.
I was thinking more like 90 as opposed to 100. You may feel satisfied with a full stomach, but Tonya Zavasta says in her book "Quantum Eating", there's nothing as good as an empty stomach without the feeling of hunger (very loosely quoted).

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In a section called Diet and detoxification they
> discuss the role of fibre - probably you need to
> read the while chapter but hopefully this small
> extract will make sense.
Thanks for the input on the 'fiber issue'. I can feel your concern. I do better with a Liquid Diet that 'washes' the Colon, as apposed to fiber being pushed through. I am adding a little fiber in the form of whole foods Chlorella and Spirulina, but haven't been on them long enough to report any results.....WY

"I was thinking more like 90 as opposed to 100. You may feel satisfied with a full stomach, but Tonya Zavasta says in her book "Quantum Eating", there's nothing as good as an empty stomach without the feeling of hunger (very loosely quoted)."

I never said I had a full stomach. I never said I followed what Tonya Zavasta said. I doubt I want to live to 100, but anyhow there's no correlation, in my mind, to calorie restriction and how long I will live.

sigh. this sh!t is how people can get away with calling raw foodies orthorexic.

Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Isn't that enough? What's with the fanatacism? Food shouldn't be such a big darn deal, it can be enjoyable and healthy without all this agonizing.

The book by Doug Graham, 8-1-1 diet, is one of the best books human kind produced. That is my humble opinion But, every person who is on any kind of raw vegan is doing the good thing also, and I have absolutely no reason to be against their views. For me, the main organ I care about is - my brain. It needs sugar. I feel great when I eat fruit. It is as simple as that. When I eat 3-4 lb of red globe grapes, I feel fantastic, my brain works like a perfect clock, and I am happy.

Now, I can understand that there is a low calorie diet that would make me live longer, possibly. I am not sure if the comparison is correct, but gorillas eat more green than chimps. Gorillas are bigger, their hair looks healthier than chimps. But, chimps are smarter! They look for fruit more than anything.

Also, if humans were really active (gardening requires a lot of work, so does foraging, including the mileage), they would need a lot of calories. Only "modern" life can accommodate for a low calorie diet - living in a city, buying instead of growing food etc. If city life is your chocie, I am fine with that. It is just not how I feel about it - I think EVERY HUMAN BEING should grow something.

I wanted to add this - please do not fight and make such a big difference between high and low calorie diet - it is a great world, and people are different.
Long live the differences! (We need to be able to love even the "normal" people, who are on the SAD diet, remember!?)

Hey Rab - I like your thing about everyone should grow something. My salad tonight looked just amazing - all colours - all out of my garden - fresh as can be - fab.

I'm not fighting - I don't mind what other people do - just chewing the (plant) fat, haha - don't think Yogi minds?

Coco - I'm not agonizing, I just have a questioning mind and I like reading. But I think you're right to remind us all that eating should just be a normal, natural activity. I would like to add though that this is the ONLY place where I can talk about any of this - I don't know anyone else who even thinks remotely like me let alone eats like me. ( I also think many raw fooders probably do have some food issues!!! )

Calorie restriction is one reason raw fooders run back to cooked foods.

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand CR liquid diet to be fibre free
> assuming you are talking about juices rather than
> smoothies.
Both!! I still sometimes like a Green Smoothie of Hunza Apricots and 5 oz. of Mixed Baby Greens, but it is rather on the liquid side. A good rule-of-thumb is if you have to pick, or floss, your teeth, it ain't Liquid...WY

I'm sorry I started this topic now. I thought I might find some support for CR. Some of you were nasty in a nice sort of way. Anyway.....I think Tonya Zavasta is a real pioneer in the field. Plus, she is 100% Raw, unlike many others practicing CR. I like her idea of the 2pm Curfew....no eating (or drinking) after 2pm. I'd recommend her book "Quantum Eating" to everyone.....WY

Wheatgrass Yogi, I don't understand why are you so discouraged. We are all open for new ideas, and sharing your views is, I feel, welcome here. I am probably not going to switch to CR diet, but I may learn something from you that I could incorporate into my diet. People have different goals, different bodies, and they like different things.
Thanks for the suggestions, anyway.