Just a couple things on "cooked" food
and juicing. And nature.
Ive tried fruit only and greens only and juice only.
They all make me feel great compared to the SAD diet.
Thing is is simply this:
There was a time when man did not COOK his food.
There was a time when man did not JUICE his fruit or veggies.
there were no stoves or microwaves, ovens etc.
There were no juicers or blenders.
The way I eat now is simply what there is in nature in its
raw natural state.
I ate fruitarian for 11 months.
Before that in the beginning of my transition I ate veggies,greens,and fruit.
now I eat veggie,greens,fruit,seeds.
All from nature.
I did start eating beans again but thats the only cooked food I eat now.
I am almost done reading "Eat To Live" by dr. joel Fuhrman
and thats the diet he details in this book which is the closest to nature
as you can get.
Also it is good to only eat what you need not want and a good fasting program
anywhere from 24 hours on up to longer fasts.
the fasting part is not from his book but the diet is.
The fasting part is from reading other books on fasting and I believe no matter how we eat the digestive tract needs a rest from time to time.
The point of this post was the 2 things:
Cooking
Juicing
Neither of those were present in the beginning.
Id say meat also but Im sure meat was eaten back then but for me, I wont eat meat.
so theres how I feel about things after 2 years now of experimenting.

Oh yea I forgot to mention I have no problems with people cooking or juicing Im just saying there was a time in the beginning when man only ate from the earth and thats how I feel we should still eat.
Just my opinion.

Road runner - what you say makes sense to me and I try to eat the same way except the beans. I also do not eat sprouted things because they disagree with me.

I haven't tried fasting yet but am intrigued by the thought of it. I run about 30 miles a week, swim and do a kung fu fitness class once a week. also try to fit in goodish session at the gym with weights etc. Presumably if i'm fasting I can't train - is that right. I can't not train. What are your thoughts please?

if all one needed was to eat fruits and vegetables in order to be happy and healthy and avoid all crisis..there would be no need for discussion or forums or gurus

when I look around I see alot more crisis then health and happiness and this is due in large part to dogmas about what is natural then it does with people eating a diet with unnatural components that are harmful.

sorry man but this is EXACTLY the naive kind of thinking based on limited experience that Paul just posted about which really causes alot of problems for people coming to the movement.


from the other thread:
"ANYTHING RAW tops the SAD diet anyday. "

completely untrue

if it was true you wouldn't see the plethora of posts about this and that problem since going raw..and there wouldn't be a healthy approach to raw and an unhealthy one..as your post also implies.

I personally don't think there is a one-size fits all model..but I do have a pretty good sense on what is unhealthy and believe one can do a ton of damage that likely would not occur eating a blissfully ignorant SAD lifestyle (which as we all know of course has its problems to say the least). Its like you can stick around the matrix and have everything pampered and suppressed yet out of your control until you fall apart...OR you can take control of the situation. But you are going to have to 'fight' and the fight isn't exactly going to be easy because you have to start (perhaps for the first time) being a parent to yourself and making your own choices...not those handed down from someone else and being packaged as natural and intuitive. This is really the crux of it IMO and has to do with fundamental uh..brain/goal restructuring rather then food.

even toxic pus bags function and go about their life and can maintain at least the appearance of health and vitality for upwards of 100 years often even more so then people eating what they believe to be the most healthful diet. While mysterious to some..its really no mystery as humanity has 'evolved' into this process. One needs to find the the proper tools to reversing this process if they desire REAL health...not focused on which foods will provide health for them! eating natural foods being a big component, but not a solution in it of itself. its like saying you stopped putting @#$%& in your septic tank and now think its clean for swimming as long as your pour only high quality water into it from now on. I don't mean to be heavy handed but I think its very naive and its fine if its your belief system but after hearing way too much of this over the years I have to throw in my two cents.

[www.giveittomeraw.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2009 12:47AM by anaken.

I was thinking today about the argument that we should eat the most similar to animals like us (i.e., chimpanzees, because their DNA is like 95% similar to ours.) I am completely cool with this, but I can't help wondering... we are evolving to have much less hair, appendages we don't need (our wisdom teeth, appendix, and I'm sure a few other things), we hae machines that do everything for us and we (most of us) live in an environment where we face a much larger toxin load than a chimpanzee in the jungle. So, IMO I think it's good to eat like the first humans, but SHOULD we be if we're becoming less and less similar to them? (BTW, I am in no way advocating a move to only/predominately cooked foods, meat, or other facets of the SAD. I'm just wondering what our bodies in their present state need.)

A non-tool using man is not a man. He's not even an ape. A squirrel maybe.

I surely don't get this odd obsession with shunning who we are.

How you gonna get your hundreds of pounds of fruit a year without trucks & diesel fuel? I know, I know, if you lived in the jungle. But, contrary to fantasy, there are alot of bananas & oranges growing in the jungle.

ecjames1120 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking today about the argument that we
> should eat the most similar to animals like us
> (i.e., chimpanzees, because their DNA is like 95%
> similar to ours.) I am completely cool with this,
> but I can't help wondering... we are evolving to
> have much less hair, appendages we don't need (our
> wisdom teeth, appendix, and I'm sure a few other
> things), we hae machines that do everything for us
> and we (most of us) live in an environment where
> we face a much larger toxin load than a chimpanzee
> in the jungle. So, IMO I think it's good to eat
> like the first humans, but SHOULD we be if we're
> becoming less and less similar to them? (BTW, I
> am in no way advocating a move to
> only/predominately cooked foods, meat, or other
> facets of the SAD. I'm just wondering what our
> bodies in their present state need.)


Why should we eat like infinitely less intelligence creatures with distended stomachs who spend all day having to eat?

Also, no one here eats like a chimp anyway, the fruit chimps eat would be indigestible to most fruitarians, who prefer grocery store bought fruit bred for high sugar & low fiber. Not sure the folks here would want to spend hours fishing for termites either.

Flipperjan,
its best to rest while fasting but its ok to work out moderately if you feel the desire.
Anaken,
from the other thread:
"ANYTHING RAW tops the SAD diet anyday. "

completely untrue
Wrong, this is TRUE.

ANYTHING raw tops the SAD diet ANYDAY.

I am not nieve.

communitybuilder Wrote:
>
> Also, no one here eats like a chimp anyway, the
> fruit chimps eat would be indigestible to most
> fruitarians, who prefer grocery store bought fruit
> bred for high sugar & low fiber. Not sure the
> folks here would want to spend hours fishing for
> termites either.

>I surely don't get this odd obsession with shunning who we are.

being a naysayer is easy.
clearly there are various issues that make this diet thing less than ideal.

But if you have ever actually eaten like a tool-less human, you might get this odd obsession with dropping those things that do not serve us well.

similarly, why don't we drop this odd obsession with flying?

I think the fresh, raw, vegan whole foods approach is the closest thing to the natural diet for humans because it has all the fiber and nutrients needed for good health.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> being a naysayer is easy.

A naysayer? I'm just expressing curiosity.


> clearly there are various issues that make this
> diet thing less than ideal.
>
> But if you have ever actually eaten like a
> tool-less human, you might get this odd obsession
> with dropping those things that do not serve us
> well.

I understand the idea of dropping things that don't serve. But I don't see why one should be afraid of spoons & juicers? It's a bit silly to shun kitchen equipment but be perfectly ok with one's food coming in huge diesel trucks.

Even if one got a 50 acre lot "in paradise" you'd still need trucks bringing in tools & equipment & seeds so you could plant your trees. Of course you'd need to prune them & fertilze them, etc. etc.

Life isn't easy. There's no such thing as a man living without tools, it's a myth.


> similarly, why don't we drop this odd obsession
> with flying?

It does have a huge carbon-footprint. But unfortunately sleeper-car trains are cost-prohibitive. I don't plan to fly in the near future though.

>I understand the idea of dropping things that don't serve. But I don't see why one should be afraid of spoons & juicers? It's a bit silly to shun kitchen equipment but be perfectly ok with one's food coming in huge diesel trucks.

because i don't have full control over the diesel trucks, and i have control over the spoons and juicers.
you would find, if you didn't use spoons or juicers that your relationship to the food becomes intimate and every aspect of nutrition is better, from taste, to determining how much to eat, to determining quality, etc etc...



-

Do you use knives to cut open the fruit/vegetable/etc.?

Next time I'm on a date at a fine establishment, I shall be sure to remember to hop onto the table and, crouching primitively, tear at my fruits with clawed hands and gnaw at my vegetables from the side of my mouth. Grunting. As my apey forebears did. And as nature intends. Ah, roadrunner, another thoughtful post waylaid by jokesters . . . sorry

Make sure you do all this completely naked. And with leaves & bugs in your hair.

And please have someone take some pics (unless cameras are against your values but I figure if computers aren't... ).

communitybuilder,

Will do. And will have my date pick nits coyly from my hair for added dioramic verisimilitude

> Do you use knives to cut open the fruit/vegetable/etc.?


sometimes. not necessary though, and better not to for many reasons.

fresh,

Returning to sobriety with my posts: why is it better to sometimes not use knives? Bruising? Chemical reaction with metal? Risk of hurting yourself?

imo, better not to use anything including blenders, juicers, knives, etc, and i've done it for periods of time. even with watermelon.

thanks for reminding me. must get back to it so my bonobo clan will embrace me again.

anyway,
helps to insure that what we are eating is

ripe
high quality
suitable for us to eat
proper size
that we eat proper amount

also food tastes better that way to me, more intimate

is that enough? i'm sure there's more.

LOL! Hillarious!
No-one said ya gotta be a freakin cave man!

I can say from experience that the raw vegan diet has caused me to be much more calm and centered. I still react, but rarely with any anxiety.
Rather than speculate which diet is more natural for humans, why not just try it? There might be less sarcasm and negativity in some of these responses, as a result.

roadrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL! Hillarious!
> No-one said ya gotta be a freakin cave man!


tamukha and cb were making jokes about it so i was playing along...

What do you think is the best way to convince people to just try a raw vegan diet?