The recent Paul Nison posts and reaction that followed got me thinking about a post someone sent him that expressed their disgust that Fruitarianism was discouraged by his organisation....

Well NEWS FLASH!!!!!

Trust me...NO raw food guru promotes Fruitarianism. If you think I'm full of s@*t go ask your favourite guru his/her view on Fruitarianism. A few back in the day used to but they either switched labels or they are long gone now!

Even though to my mind "strict" raw veganism is infact Fruitarianism, Yeah, I said it, many people are actually Fruitarian and don't even know it....Every raw guru "I know" from back in the day started off as a Fruitarian but then changed their label to raw vegan either to make themselves more profitable or they couldn't handle the detox....you just cannot sell Fruitarianism because nature gives you the food and intuition for free and the detox can seriously kick your azz.

So hey...don't just pick on Paul...pick on the whole guru gang!

I'm out!!!

RB





Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 06:32PM by richard blackman.

..I've spent a lot of time on George Malkmus' website, who has little fear of any glycemic affects of carrot juice, and presumably fruits in general. In an interview he refers to going on a "raw vegetarian/fruitarian" diet:

"In 1976, at age 42, I switched to a totally raw vegetarian / fruitarian diet with large amounts of freshly extracted vegetable juices. In fact, for one year I never ate a piece of cooked food. During that year, not only did my colon cancer go away, but so did every other physical problem I had!

"After that first year, I added some cooked food to my diet. Presently, my diet consists of approximately 85 percent raw foods, with the balance made up of freshly prepared cooked vegetarian food.

"I eat no meat, no dairy, no sugar and no white flour products, and haven't for 17 years! My diet is usually raw until the conclusion of the day, with my only cooked food -- if any at all -- coming at the end of the evening meal."

[www.all-creatures.org]

..George Malkmus might naturally IMO describe himself today as a vegan/fruitarian.

Gabriel Cousens (on Paul's list) has no references on his website to fruitarianism or the Raw Food Summit of 2006, seemingly not having issues there. Paul Nison's initial post of the Internation Raw Food Summit of 2006 with the list of supporters does not look right to me, with all of its parenthetical statements subject to interpretation.

..forgot to mention, George Malkmus was also on Paul Nison's list of supporters in Paul's original
post. Here's another "fruitarian" quote from George Malkmus:

"There are many theories as to what happened and why, and I have held several different
thoughts myself down through the years. But the longer I observe the effects of various foods
upon the human body, the more I am convinced that one of the greatest tragedies in history is
the change in diet man made from the original raw vegetarian/fruitarian diet God gave to
mankind in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 1:29 to one of meat and cooked and artificial foods."

[www.hacres.com]

..again, I doubt George Malkmus would knowingly "sign" a document discouraging
fruitarianism. That langauge was possibly added after the fact, you know,
using parentheses is a conventional way to accomplish that, with the use of
a footnote of some sort for the record.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 10:11PM by loeve.

Yes, if you go by the 70% rule and even if you didn't, nearly everybody could be considered a fruitarian, but nobody wants the label because it has a bad rep, even a lot of those on high fruit diets don't consider themselves Fruitarians and say Fruitarianism is unhealthy, especially the guru's because when the detox starts the sales go down because people can't handle it and they blame their program for making them sick, etc.

Think about it.....how many of these guru's write books and talk about how they have the perfect program but when it comes to helping you get through your cleanse/detox process they leave you to fend for yourself, any long term raw foodist knows that being raw is the easy part, it's the detox/cleansing that will make or break you. I know some guru's with retreats do help people get through this but many high profile guru's don't. Many high profile guru's believe that you don't need to cleanse and that cleansing is dangerous but the reality is that many people reach the stage where they are so sick that they can't cleanse by themselves and they get into real bad problems because their guru is too busy talking about what science says and neglects the emotional and spiritual elements. You also have people with medical conditions getting on raw food forums and asking perfect strangers how to cure themselves.

It's not fruits or Fruitarianism that's at fault here, it's a lack of proper care and guidance from raw guru's and it's people not doing proper reseach about what they are getting into amongst other things.

Tell you the truth I'm more concerned with people living in a way that works for them than living by labels, so I'm not being pro Fruitarianism, I just think that the raw community needs to look at how it's dealing with it's issues and how it's helping individuals in need because after all these years absolutely nothing has changed.

RB

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..I've spent a lot of time on George Malkmus'
> website, who has little fear of any glycemic
> affects of carrot juice, and presumably fruits in
> general. In an interview he refers to going on a
> "raw vegetarian/fruitarian" diet:
>
> "In 1976, at age 42, I switched to a totally raw
> vegetarian / fruitarian diet with large amounts of
> freshly extracted vegetable juices. In fact, for
> one year I never ate a piece of cooked food.
> During that year, not only did my colon cancer go
> away, but so did every other physical problem I
> had!
>
> "After that first year, I added some cooked food
> to my diet. Presently, my diet consists of
> approximately 85 percent raw foods, with the
> balance made up of freshly prepared cooked
> vegetarian food.
>
> "I eat no meat, no dairy, no sugar and no white
> flour products, and haven't for 17 years! My diet
> is usually raw until the conclusion of the day,
> with my only cooked food -- if any at all --
> coming at the end of the evening meal."
>
> [www.all-creatures.org]
>
> ..George Malkmus might naturally IMO describe
> himself today as a vegan/fruitarian.
>
> Gabriel Cousens (on Paul's list) has no references
> on his website to fruitarianism or the Raw Food
> Summit of 2006, seemingly not having issues there.
> Paul Nison's initial post of the Internation Raw
> Food Summit of 2006 with the list of supporters
> does not look right to me, with all of its
> parenthetical statements subject to
> interpretation.

Forgive me but I've not read your post....so some of this may not be relevant to you.

I'm talking about people that blatently promote Fruitarianism as in using the actual word "Fruitarian" to describe their diet. That aren't ashamed to say they are "Fruitarians" or have the title on their website, etc, etc. Like I say in my eye's everybody on a "strict" raw vegan diet is a Fruitarian but they won't admit it or promote it. Don't believe me?....look at your own diet and if the vast majoriy of what you eat is fruits then your a Fruitarian plain and simple, now look at the diet of your favourite guru and see what you think.

In my opinion a fruit is anything with a seed/seeds. Fruitarianism can also include limited amounts of greens, nuts/seeds and veggies!

Like I say, ask any of your favourite guru's what they think about long term Fruitarianism or just eating fruits and see what they say.

Sorry about this guys...I think I've had too much fresh air today, ha,ha,ha!!!..I'm off my soap box now I promise!

I think I've caught Paul Nisonitis.....

RB





Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 10:43PM by richard blackman.

You want examples of what I mean by promoting Fruitarianism...I mean like David Wolfe & Karen Knowler used to!!!!

RB

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion a fruit is anything with a seed/seeds.

Yeah, I agree, the standard seedless banana is NOT fruit!

Omega Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richard blackman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In my opinion a fruit is anything with a
> seed/seeds.
>
> Yeah, I agree, the standard seedless banana is NOT
> fruit!

Yep...a lot of what people think are veggies are actually fruits. Like squash, tomato's and peppers, etc...

RB

If thats the criteria, i have been fruitarian from the beginning of my journey five years ago now. i have from the beginning eaten fresh fruit all morning and lastly in the evening. In between i have had salads and raw gourmet stuff but the majority of my diet has been fruits by far. The huge difference now is that (for the last 50 days) i have been on 100% raw fruits. That being the case though, i believe the full-effect fruitarian diet is experienced when one is 100% raw in doing it. Just imho.


Grace and Peace.


todd

tglasco4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If thats the criteria, i have been fruitarian from
> the beginning of my journey five years ago now. i
> have from the beginning eaten fresh fruit all
> morning and lastly in the evening. In between i
> have had salads and raw gourmet stuff but the
> majority of my diet has been fruits by far. The
> huge difference now is that (for the last 50 days)
> i have been on 100% raw fruits. That being the
> case though, i believe the full-effect fruitarian
> diet is experienced when one is 100% raw in doing
> it. Just imho.
>
>
> Grace and Peace.
>
>
> todd

Yeah that's what I meant by "strict" Fruitarian....yeah, baybee, there's so many people that are "or" can be labeled as Fruitarian. Like I say I see no difference between a strict Raw Vegan diet and a Fruitarian one, my issue is when people trash others on the Fruitarian lifestyle yet are living it themselves, it's all sensless. You can re-package the Fruitarian lifestyle and sell it back to us under a different name to avoid being guilty by association and keep your sales intact, but at the end of the day, it's still going to be Fruitarianism.

The reason why nobody wanted to be associated with Fruitarianism was because they saw being 100% raw as extreme and some people didn't want to give up their cooked food, also because the transitioning was too hard for the majority of people so it got a bad rep. So the term Raw Vegan was born for folks that wanted to be labeled as raw but didn't want to be 100% strict raw/Fruitarian.

RB





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 12:13AM by richard blackman.

Omega wrote:

"Yeah, I agree, the standard seedless banana is NOT fruit! "


So, yesterday I ate some seedless tangerines from my friend's tree. Last year, tangerines from the same tree had seeds in them. I wasn't surprised, because this is a common phenomenon with citrus. It will change from seeded to seedless depending on the year, the temperature, etc.

Are you implying that the tangerines were "fruit" last year, and not this year?

doghouse reilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Omega wrote:
>
> "Yeah, I agree, the standard seedless banana is
> NOT fruit! "
>
>
> So, yesterday I ate some seedless tangerines from
> my friend's tree. Last year, tangerines from the
> same tree had seeds in them. I wasn't surprised,
> because this is a common phenomenon with citrus.
> It will change from seeded to seedless depending
> on the year, the temperature, etc.
>
> Are you implying that the tangerines were "fruit"
> last year, and not this year?

If I can drop my two cents in, it all depends on how the individual is looking at it, you can either look at it "technically" and go back and forth debating about terminolgy or you can see it for what it is and know that things will change depending on the years.

Obviously we know that a seedless fruit is still labeled a fruit, I don't know any other term for a seedless fruit other than "seedless fruit" maybe if David mason see's this he can help, but we also know that without seeds it won't "bare" fruit, and from what I've read other elements are lost also....and that's the main point here or the main point I'm making anyway.

Hope you didn't mind me chiming in here, I've got wat too much time on my hands today, ha,ha!

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 01:46AM by richard blackman.

it appears to be a pointless point.......so if someone eats fruit that doesnt have seeds....the fruitarian police will say they are not fruitarian?..lol

whatever...

tglasco4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it appears to be a pointless point.......so if
> someone eats fruit that doesnt have seeds....the
> fruitarian police will say they are not
> fruitarian?..lol
>
> whatever...

Hey man....that's no joke!!!!....I've been told I'm not Fruitarian because I said that it's the same as a Raw Vegan diet, I've also been told I wasn't Fruitarian because I fed my dogs raw meat.

It's crazy, people will spend time debating about this and that but we all want the same thing and we are pretty much going in the same direction for the most part!...so yeah, it's pretty pointless, when I was a Fruitarian I simply got what I could get my hands on, seedless or not, ha,ha.

RB

Richard,
Well said .

Just cannot sell Fruitarianism because nature gives you the food and intuition
for free and the detox can seriously kick your azz.

Cherimoya,

Love Peace and Happiness,

---in my understanding and experiencing, a "strict fruitarianism" is not the same as "strict raw veganism", because these two have different meaning and intention...

---"strict fruitarianism" is about fruits (and nuts) which plants "do not mind" giving away in order to desiminate and expand, making their fruits attractive and rewarding, energy, taste, biovailability and nutrition wise.

---therefore, consuming fruits is a none-violent action, and it is the best secondary energy source food available...

---the "strict raw veganism" is about, firstly a mindful proactive choice against exploatation, mistreating, harming and killing of animals for the "pleasure" of eating and/or other purpose, meaning it is firstly about ethical stand and compassionate consideration..., health consideration is a secondary motivation, but has been "upgraded" by elimination of unnatural and unnaturally processed/cooked foods, making "vegan" to "raw vegan"..., however "raw vegan" IS about eating the plant, not only plant's fruit, but even plant itself, plant's leaf, root, etc, (labeling it "greens" and "vegetables"..., avoiding animal based food is what it is about, however eating the plant IS still an act of violance, as no plant want to be eaten or harmed, and therefore defend itself and its seed against the attacker using different tactics and strategies: unapealing taste and smell, toxic substantces and anti-nutrients causing in adverse effects, etc...

My personal take is always the same. In my opinion, food is just any other tool. It is either a tool that is helping to meet you goals...and a tool for consciousness......or it is secretly a tool for helping to avoid being conscious. In any event: What is the line from No Country For Old Men? (bad paraphrase coming) Folks spend so much time fighting....and more stuff is going right out the open front door....

-I understand the desire to help people. But to me, this means supporting THEIR goals....and identifying the methods THEY think will get them there. Food is not ALWAYS the tool (although it often helps). Identifying their goals is a deeply personal process of realization and consciousness...to be sure.

-I suppose it is easy to see those that are not busy BEING the change they want others to see. In my opinion, they are the ones spending FAR too much time trying to find the 'truth' of diet......or convince others of a certain lifestyle.....or spending most of their writing time warning others (whether is be about aliens, global warming, or diet). The question is always: What are THEY doing in a positive manner? If all a persons energy is spent pursuing one's dreams, they have little time to debate the 'truth' of something.

-Just some quick thoughts.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

justin1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ---in my understanding and experiencing, a "strict
> fruitarianism" is not the same as "strict raw
> veganism", because these two have different
> meaning and intention...
>
> ---"strict fruitarianism" is about fruits (and
> nuts) which plants "do not mind" giving away in
> order to desiminate and expand, making their
> fruits attractive and rewarding, energy, taste,
> biovailability and nutrition wise.
>
> ---therefore, consuming fruits is a none-violent
> action, and it is the best secondary energy source
> food available...
>
> ---the "strict raw veganism" is about, firstly a
> mindful proactive choice against exploatation,
> mistreating, harming and killing of animals for
> the "pleasure" of eating and/or other purpose,
> meaning it is firstly about ethical stand and
> compassionate consideration..., health
> consideration is a secondary motivation, but has
> been "upgraded" by elimination of unnatural and
> unnaturally processed/cooked foods, making "vegan"
> to "raw vegan"..., however "raw vegan" IS about
> eating the plant, not only plant's fruit, but even
> plant itself, plant's leaf, root, etc, (labeling
> it "greens" and "vegetables"..., avoiding animal
> based food is what it is about, however eating the
> plant IS still an act of violance, as no plant
> want to be eaten or harmed, and therefore defend
> itself and its seed against the attacker using
> different tactics and strategies: unapealing taste
> and smell, toxic substantces and anti-nutrients
> causing in adverse effects, etc...

Yeah, Justin if you read my post you'll see that I didn't say a "STRICT FRUITARIAN DIET"....I said a "STRICT RAW VEGAN DIET" is the same as the "FRUITARIAN DIET"...."STRICT FRUITARIANISM" as in only eating fruits no nuts/seeds, water, greens, etc is another level completely and in time will eventually lead to the individual progressing onto Liquidarianism, I think you misread something that may have referred to a conversation between me and the previous poster.

Plus your throwing out a lot of "man made" concepts/rules here and and personaly I don't live by man made concepts, I follow my own intuition, so our views will differ but that's ok, right? I've found that when people follow rules the plot gets lost and it starts getting too complex and emotional, why not just eat and go, that's what raw food is there for, right, why do we need to set so many guidelines, I mean the food is already raw and it's not from an animal as we know it, so why don't people simply eat what they need and go about their business!?

Like I said before... I had too many "ethical" Fruitarians cussing me out because I shared that I fed my dogs raw meat, etc, but interms of living the raw lifestyle I was more raw and more Vegan than anybody I knew because I never ate greens or killed the plant, etc, I just ate the fruit or drank the juice. I actually don't believe that we are even supposed to eat the fruit because I belive that the fruit is the womb of the tree/plant and holds the children of the tree/plant and the tree does not "GIVE" us the fruit, it simply releases the fruit with the womb and seeds/children intact for future growth. So as you can see it all depends on how you want to look at this.

Fruitarianism is simply eating your food raw because it's pretty much a given that most peoples raw diet will be made up of mostly fruits.

I'm not saying anybody else is wrong and I'm right, I'm just sharing my personal opinion.

RB





Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 02:11PM by richard blackman.

cherimoya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard,
> Well said .
>
> Just cannot sell Fruitarianism because nature
> gives you the food and intuition
> for free and the detox can seriously kick your
> azz.
>
> Cherimoya,
>
> Love Peace and Happiness,

Yeah, it don't get no simpler than that does it and I think that's what the raw community is missing!.....simplicity!

RB

davidzanemason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My personal take is always the same. In my
> opinion, food is just any other tool. It is either
> a tool that is helping to meet you goals...and a
> tool for consciousness......or it is secretly a
> tool for helping to avoid being conscious. In any
> event: What is the line from No Country For Old
> Men? (bad paraphrase coming) Folks spend so much
> time fighting....and more stuff is going right out
> the open front door....
>
> -I understand the desire to help people. But to
> me, this means supporting THEIR goals....and
> identifying the methods THEY think will get them
> there. Food is not ALWAYS the tool (although it
> often helps). Identifying their goals is a deeply
> personal process of realization and
> consciousness...to be sure.
>
> -I suppose it is easy to see those that are not
> busy BEING the change they want others to see. In
> my opinion, they are the ones spending FAR too
> much time trying to find the 'truth' of
> diet......or convince others of a certain
> lifestyle.....or spending most of their writing
> time warning others (whether is be about aliens,
> global warming, or diet). The question is always:
> What are THEY doing in a positive manner? If all a
> persons energy is spent pursuing one's dreams,
> they have little time to debate the 'truth' of
> something.
>
> -Just some quick thoughts.
>
> -David Z. Mason



You go boy!

RB

Ha,ha when I first started as a Fruitarian I was the only person I knew that was willing to admit I was a Fruitarian, that was the reason why I went by the username "The Fruitarian One" for all those years, I got attacked for even using the word and folks said I was just killing myself, when infact I just simply had to go through a good azz kicking from my detox and that's why you won't get any high fruit guru's refering to themselves as Fruitarians even though 70-80% of their diet is made up of fruits, the Fruitarian label simply has too much stigma/baggage attached to it and wrecks sales. All the other guru's are even 100% raw anymore and have no place teaching/guiding anybody.

I'm not saying that everybody must refer to themselves as Fruitarians now, I'm just wanting to share some of my personal insight as I see it.

RB





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 02:39PM by richard blackman.

Ok folks...until next time, be good and take care!

RB

doghouse reilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, yesterday I ate some seedless tangerines from
> my friend's tree. Last year, tangerines from the
> same tree had seeds in them. I wasn't surprised,
> because this is a common phenomenon with citrus.
> It will change from seeded to seedless depending
> on the year, the temperature, etc.
>
> Are you implying that the tangerines were "fruit"
> last year, and not this year?

Was your friend's tree grafted or grown from seed?

Does the phenomenon you describe occur with wild fruit trees?

richard blackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so yeah, it's pretty pointless, when I was a Fruitarian I simply got what I could
> get my hands on, seedless or not, ha,ha.
>
> RB

Hi Richard,

I think you are getting really tired of me asking this question, but... may I know what is your take on seedless/hybrid question?

If I remember correctly, in the past you once said that organic foods may be perfect but you still choose to eat conventional foods anyway. Is it the same as what you would apply to seedless fruits? (which means that you think seeded fruits are better but you still don't mind eating seedless fruit)

Thank you.

All the Best,
Wong

RB!

---i have been living on "raw vegan" mostly fruit (80%...?) for the last 8-years of my life, but i experience a major difference compared to "strict fruitarian" only fruits diet, preferrably in liquid form..., as some has already mentioned here it makes the whole difference...

---i respect and understand your perspective and experience, you make a very good points here, and i appreciate you share them without any compromise...

---for one thing, it is new to me to hear, why there is a "fruit-fobia" out there..., it reminds me of a "fasting-fobia" amongst most NHist using similar reasoning and tactics, such as, - "heavy-detox-symptoms", "people are too toxic and sick, and will die as flies", as well fearing of law-suit, and not least driven by business motives to sell more of their services/products and create/maintain "consumption-addiction" of their clients, etc etc...

---what a shame, that manipulative business sneaks in everywhere, destroing and twisting the truths, ideals and moral on its path in pursuit for earning...

---thanks for your sharing...

---btw, i share my living space with a raw carnivorous cat...





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 04:41PM by justin1.

good



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 04:42PM by madinah.

justin1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RB!
>
> ---i have been living on "raw vegan" mostly fruit
> (80%...?) for the last 8-years of my life, but i
> experience a major difference compared to "strict
> fruitarian" only fruits diet, preferrably in
> liquid form..., as some has already mentioned here
> it makes the whole difference...
>
> ---i respect and understand your perspective and
> experience, you make a very good points here, and
> i appreciate you share them without any
> compromise...
>
> ---for one thing, it is new to me to hear, why
> there is a "fruit-fobia" out there..., it reminds
> me of a "fasting-fobia" amongst most NHist using
> similar reasoning and tactics, such as, -
> "heavy-detox-symptoms", "people are too toxic and
> sick, and will die as flies", as well fearing of
> law-suit, and not least driven by business motives
> to sell more of their services/products and
> create/maintain "consumption-addiction" of their
> clients, etc etc...
>
> ---what a shame, that manipulative business sneaks
> in everywhere, destroing and twisting the truths,
> ideals and moral on its path in pursuit for
> earning...
>
> ---thanks for your sharing...
>
> ---btw, i share my living space with a raw
> carnivorous cat...

Yeah, doing what I've done over the years, I've had to put up with the worst type of behaviour from the worst type of people from all sections of the raw community, other folks probably won't ever have to experience all that junk, I hope not anyway! Hey be careful sharing that info about your cat...they'll be taking away your raw vegan license and call you a raw foodist!...ha,ha!

Having said that there's some great and supportive people out there too that far out weight the bad.

RB





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 04:49PM by richard blackman.