can someone please send me a link to a nice raw vegan recipe for kimchi that does not use salt or vinegar?

ILoveJen,

A search of the recipe forum here turned up nothing. One can make fermented vegetables without vinegar, which is a cheat, but not without salt. Salt helps to catalyze the bacterial fermentation process, and also limits bad bacteria levels. You could try a recipe but omit the salt, though I wouldn't--you would have to wash the ingredients very well to limit things like botullinum toxin, you would have to increase the ratios of ginger and red chile to help limit harmful pathogens(which might render the finished kimchee inedible), and the resulting fermentation would be weak and extremely sour, if very spicy also. It would be hard to tell if it's OK to eat without trying it, and that could be unsafe.

Jeremy Safron's kimchee is good and simple[it's in his book, The Raw Truth]. It calls for red miso, and a small amount of prepared kimchee to act as a "starter." However, prepared kimchee has salt, so . . .

I wish you luck.

i have had the kind that they sell at whole foods by rejuvination foods or something...



it's salt and vinegar free. i wonder how they make it...? =(

Hmmmm, I've only had their regular one. What are the ingredients, exactly?

Vegetable Fermentation Further Simplified says:
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> The simple key to successful vegetable fermentation is to make sure your vegetables are submerged in liquid. That’s it, the big secret. Usually the liquid is salty water, also known as brine, but fermentation can be done without salt, or with other liquids, such as wine or whey. Typically, when fresh vegetables are chopped or grated in preparation for fermentation—which creates greater surface area—salting pulls out the vegetable juices via osmosis, and pounding or tamping the vegetables breaks down cell walls to further release juices, so no additional water is required. However, if the vegetables have lost moisture during long storage, occasionally some water is needed; if brine hasn’t risen to submerge the weighted vegetables by the following day, add a little water. In the case of vegetables left whole (cabbage heads, cucumbers, green tomatoes, string beans, okra, zucchini, eggplant, peppers—try anything), the vegetables should be submerged in brine.

The huge variety of vegetable ferments you can create all exist along the spectrum from shredded and salted to whole and submerged in a brine. Sometimes you use elements of each style, as in kimchi recipes that call for soaking vegetables in a brine to soften them and leach out bitter flavors, then pouring off excess brine and mixing in spices. In some cases the liquid is what we’re after, flavored by the vegetables and fermentation.

Pretty much any vegetable can be fermented. Use what is abundantly available and be bold in your experimentation. Seaweeds are a wonderful addition to ferments, as are fruits, though mostly fruit ferments go through their process very quickly. I’ve even made delicious sauerkraut with mashed potatoes layered in with the salted cabbage, as well as kimchi with sticky rice layers. The sharp fermented starches are delicious. The spicing of vegetable ferments is quite varied, too. Kimchi typically includes red chili peppers, garlic, ginger, and scallions. Sauerkraut might include caraway seeds (my favorite), juniper berries, apples, or cranberries. New York–style sour pickles are spiced with dill, garlic, and sometimes hot peppers. To keep cucumbers crunchy, add to the brine some grape leaves or leaves of horseradish, oak, currant, or cherry.

How much salt do you use? Traditionally vegetables have been fermented with lots of salt. In addition to pulling water from the vegetables, salt hardens pectins in the vegetables, rendering them crunchier, and discourages the growth of bacteria other than lactobacilli. By inhibiting competing bacteria, salt enables the vegetables to ferment and to be stored for longer periods of time. Since preservation has historically been one of the important motivations for fermentation, ferments have tended to be quite salty. But for health-conscious people interested primarily in flavor and nutrition, less salt can be better. Salt lightly, to taste. It is easier to add salt than to take it away, but if you oversalt, you can dilute by adding water and/or more vegetables. There is no magic proportion of salt the process requires—it’s just personal preference. As a starting point, try 3 tablespoons of salt per 5 pound of vegetables. More salt will slow the fermentation process; less (or none) will speed it up. Ferments with less salt may be more prone to surface molds. You can leave out the salt or use various mineral-rich substitutes such as celery juice (my favorite salt-free variation) or seaweed. Just be sure the vegetables are submerged in the liquid.

Some people promote the idea that salt-free sauerkrauts contain more beneficial organisms than salted krauts. I don’t believe that. The most specific beneficial bacteria we’re after, Lactobacillus, is salt-tolerant and abundantly present even in salty krauts; arguably, salt-free ferments are more biodiverse, but this diversity often results in mushy textures. Though it is possible to ferment vegetables without salt, a little salt results in far superior flavor and texture—and just as much beneficial bacteria. So again, salt to taste...

[www.wildfermentation.com]


I think some celery juice and/or seaweeds would make a good kimchi - just mix it in with whatever vegetables you want, and cram it down into a tall glass jar or crock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 10:36PM by wild-aloe.

wild-aloe,

Great info! I wonder if ILoveJen's storebought kimchee was started on seaweed? It's hard to tell from what's visible under the label. Although that's still salt, well, sodium . . .

No (the ingredients for that kimchee on their website list no seaweeds or celery, and) I think RF just has a process down for making totally salt/sodium free krauts that still taste reasonably well. From what I've read it is possible to do so, but the vegetables will ferment faster, be tangier/mushier, and possibly need more monitoring as well as not lasting as long. I think the article I posted above, thus, gives a better perspective by saying to use a little bit of salt, or use seaweed, or celery juice (who objects that strongly to celery juice, after all?) But I've just used some good local salt in my kimchi's thus far, and not worried about it too much.

i like the celery juice idea

maybe also a juice made of lemon, celery, garlic and ginger

and have the cabbage marinate in that juice

and then season it with cayenne

wow thanks so much for this post! =D

i think i'm going to submerge it in a juice of veggies, and let it soak in that... like celery juice and maybe juice some of the cabbage, too.

this isnt kimche but may be helpful
[grassyroots.com]
I thought the talk was interesting as well

from rejuvinative's website it says about the above kim-chi:

Salt-Free Garden Kim-Chi
Ingredients: Cabbage*, carrots*, broccoli*, ginger*, onions*, dandelion greens*, lemon juice*, garlic*, celery seed*, fennel*, thyme*, basil*, sage*, rosemary*, ground dried red peppers*

Kim-Chi without salt is a very unique and special food. Kim-Chi has been a staple of the Korean diet for centuries. It is made from fresh, shredded, unheated vegetables which are put into stainless steel containers and left to culture for five to seven days. No water or vinegar is added. These delicious, high-fiber, low-fat, unheated, organic, cultured vegetables are one of the richest sources of lactobacilli and enzymes available. Lactobacilli are probiotic microflora, naturally implanted by mother's milk, normally present in a healthy human digestive tract.

Order online through our direct order form or to your favorite natural food store through our turnover form


i wuold assume the lemon juice replaces the action of the vinegar .. just a hunch call them and ask [www.rejuvenative.com] their phone number is on there .. im confused about the non-heated part though because i was under the impression it was a law to heat all canned/jarred items for public distribution .. ?


also on their site in FAQ is how to make them but they omit the lemon juice .. hmmm and talk about skimming mold off the top layer .. ugg that kinda grosses me out but here it is ..

How to make your own raw cultured vegetables. To enjoy the benefits and the uniquely appealing flavor of Raw Cultured Vegetables, you may make your own as follows:

Use fresh, well-cleaned cabbage either on its own or as the primary ingredient along with beets, carrots, garlic, celery, kelp, herbs or any other vegetable you enjoy. You may add a high quality sea salt if desired. A five-gallon container will hold about 35 pounds of vegetables and it is best to use at least 25 pounds per recipe. You can either grind the vegetables using a Champion Juicer (without the screen) or cut and shred them with a food processor. If you use the latter process, pound the vegetables to make them juicier.

Put the prepared vegetables in a stainless steel, ceramic or a glass crock. Don't fill the crock to the brim because the fermenting vegetables are likely to expand and may overflow. Put lots of fresh cabbage leaves on top of the ground up vegetables and using your hands and a little body weight, gently and firmly compress the leaves.

Put a plate that is as wide as possible in the crock and then add some weight to the plate, such as a lidded glass jar filled with two-thirds of a pint of water. A little weight will be sufficient, as too much will force the vegetable juice above the fermenting vegetables. Check the fermenting vegetables a few times over the next day and a half to ensure that the plate is sitting evenly on the vegetables and is not lopsided.

Let the fermenting vegetables sit in a well-ventilated space at room temperature (between 59-71º) for five to seven days. The longer it sits the stronger it gets. After five to seven days (6-7 days at 62ºand 5-6 days at 70º), throw away the old cabbage leaves and the moldy and discolored vegetables on the top. Put the remaining delicious fermented vegetables in glass jars and refrigerate. The Raw Cultured Vegetables will last from four to eight months when kept at 34º and opened minimally. Do not freeze them.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2009 04:29PM by Jgunn.

Yeah, I'm puzzled as to how the commercial salt-free kimchee is made, but they have industrial processes that we don't so . . .

I was always taught that if your homemade sauerkraut(or kimchee, as it happens) molds, it has been fully contaminated and cannot be safely consumed. It's not like hard cheese, where you can just cut the moldy part off because mold doesn't penetrate into that dense a substance that quickly. I think I'm too chicken to hazard making my own without salt and eat it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2009 06:23PM by Tamukha.

yea i dont understand the mold part either .. and i wouldnt trust it ..

in my opinion if you want to eat kimchi then eat it .. accept it for what it is , accept yourself for eating and enjoy it ..

tryingto make something without following the age old recipe seems like trying to make something different than what it is .. i can pack a jar of vegetables and let them ferment but when it starts to mold to me its not fermenting anymore but composting lol

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I made a attempt to make vegi kraut and went through all the process placing cabage leaves over the top and a plate with something heavy on it but when I uncovered it some of the most healthy flys were floating on top with some little fruit flys. I was so grossed out I threw it all away. I went through a phase of craving the stuff in a jar I would drive 20 miles into town to get just a jar and boy that stuff is expensive. I really think I was craving the tart spicy salty flavor the most. I have not craved the stuff lately though. Its funny how the cravings come and go.

pampam

I have not eaten kimchi for like two years. I am craving that juicy sour tangy weird flavor. It's interesting because i have not craved it for a really really long time.

i am juice feasting right now, and have been for almost two months. i have been dreaming about kimchi though. i don't know when i am going to break the feast, but i have been thinking about someday in the future when i am eating solids again to experiment with a batch of kimchi or something. i don't usually spend a lot of time in the kitchen though, and i'm not sure if i will get around to doing this. for some reason, i don't know why, but i have been craaaving it like mad. not something i have wanted in a really long time though. i am wondering could this just be detox? it's not even that i am hungry. i have just been wanting that flavor and texture for some reason i don't understand why. i have been having dreams about eating it with a chop sticks and squeezing the juices in my mouth with my tongue.

ILoveJen,

If it's that bad for you, and since raw, naturally fermented kimchee is useful, just make that something you eat after you ease off your "feast." After a long juicing period, it is wise to supplement with probiotic cultures[through food] because, in some people, the juicing puts the bacteria in the intestinal tract out of balance. Maybe your body is craving kimchee because this is happening to you?

can you please explain to me how or why the bacteria gets out of balance?

i just want to understand better the process that is going on in my body right now. i've never been on such a long fast, and i feel really good, and i want to be gentle and as educated as possible.

how come the juicing makes the bacteria out of balance? i don't understand. it is very interesting though. i was thinking that it might be something like that.

also, what does that mean exactly? that the bacteria is out of balance?

is it because i haven't been digesting foods like normal so they are on vacai or something?

isn't fasting supposed to be good for digestion?

there was no one reason i decided to start feasting. my body decided one day i just didn't want to eat, and since then, it has been that way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2009 11:07PM by ILoveJen.

jen, I wonder if you need some celery in your juice? Celery has natural sodium in it.
One other thought is have you tried Ann Wigmore's rejuvelac? There are a lot of people who don't like it but its fairly easy to make and has those probiotics in it.

i don't understand.

how does the sodium help?

and i'm still not sure why about the probiotics?

ILoveJen,

I have heard often from people who do high liquids that the probiotic bacteria may become depleted because of the huge quantity of liquids being consumed; these populations do not replenish themselves automatically but need to be reintroduced from without. That's why the older rawist practioners recommended drinking fermented liquids like rejuvelac and eating fermented foods like sauerkraut and kimchee. What I'm suggesting is that maybe your body is craving fermented food because it needs to restore its probiotics. This isn't a life or death issue; just keep it in mind for when you're done with the high liquids : )

that is very interesting.

thank you so much for the advice. i will definitely keep this in mind.

the hardcore kimchi obsession has subsided. i plan to end the fast sometime next week i think. maybe i will take it through to the end of lent, but i'm not sure. i've fasted through lent, but i am not religious. i'm not even sure when the fast thing ends. i just remember there was a thread on here about lent, and i was like maybe i'll take my fast through to the end of lent, but then i was all like no that is crazy talk i'm not going to fast that long, but i think it is almost here. lol