I am starting a square foot garden this season and am looking for advice from raw foodists....do any of you have any recommendations of how much and what to plant? The recommendations in the book are directed towards the typical American. The author recommends 3 four foot square plots to supply all of a persons' vegetable needs. I imagine us raw foodists would eat much more, right? How many 4 foot squares would a raw foodist dedicate to each person in a raw family? I want to have enough but not be wasteful. Any thoughts?

I remember watching the originator of
Square Foot Gardening, Mel Bartholomew, in the 1970's.
He had a very interesting TV show.
My feeling is it is too 'busy'....best to concentrate
on just a couple of plantings. Grow Greens if you can...WY
[www.google.com]

I've used square foot gardening quite a bit.....and you are PROBABLY going to be supplementing your diet with things like nuts and fruits.....so the stuff in your garden is pretty much going to be veggies.....unless you are growing melons to....but I haven't had too much luck with those...heh...heh. In any event, even one (1) 4' X 4' plot is probably enough veggies for one person for the season....if picked little by little and supplemented. Kale, Spinach, Lettuce, Swiss Chard & other fresh greens are picked one leaf at a time.....which quick plots are grown with a variety of radishes......and cycled every 30 days or so....so you always have fresh radishes & radish greens to eat.....while other things that take much longer.....like carrots.....have the time to grow.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

i had 12 (4 x 4) going last summer for 2 of us and we were plowing thourgh most of it pretty well but i planted way too much zuchini and it went crazy i froze alot of stuff when i needed to and kept munching from the garden .. i would say 12 plots was too many and took up alot of time i am thinking of doing 9 this summer

i wouldnt worry about wasting as you can freeze stuff ..either chop it up and bag it or blend it up and freeze into cubes so you can add it to smoothies later or raw soups or somethign for the dog to gnaw on (my dog loves chewing zuchini cubes lol)

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2009 09:29PM by Jgunn.

Jodi,

As of right now we have the equivalent of twelve 4x4's. We made the bed frames out of old railroad ties that we had laying around and only had enough to make 3 4x16 foot beds. I am a little worried that I am losing side access to the area in the middle, but we don't have much choice because we barely have any extra money. Which crops did you grow? Did you start from seed or use transplants? If we can find more wood, I was considering doing more. We are a family of three mostly raw foodists (two adults and an older child) plus one baby (only nursing now). I am giving one 4x4 area to my son to grow whatever his heart desires.

Is it difficult to stagger the growth of lettuce to have enough for everyone to have a large salad each day? I don't suppose you have any pictures of your garden do you? Also, do you have the "All New" square foot gardening book, or did you work from the classic book, and do you know if the newer version is worth buying (I have the old book, but am following the website's updated advice to use raised beds, etc). Sorry for all the questions, but I am really new at this gardening stuff. I am looking forward to all the fresh raw foods though! Thanks for your help!

Musicbebe,

Square foot gardening per Mel Bartholomew is the way to go for organic gardening.

However, I would be wary of using railroad ties - because much of them are treated with creosote to keep them from rotting. You don't want creosote soaked ties leaching into your soil and thus into your veggies and thus into you.

From wikipedia - [en.wikipedia.org]


Health effects of coal tar creosote

According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), eating food or drinking water contaminated with high levels of coal tar creosote may cause a burning in the mouth and throat, and stomach pains.

ATDSR also states that brief direct contact with large amounts of coal tar creosote may result in a rash or severe irritation of the skin, chemical burns of the surfaces of the eyes, convulsions and mental confusion, kidney or liver problems, unconsciousness, and even death. Longer direct skin contact with low levels of creosote mixtures or their vapors can result in increased light sensitivity, damage to the cornea, and skin damage. Longer exposure to creosote vapors can cause irritation of the respiratory tract.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has determined that coal tar creosote is probably carcinogenic to humans, based on adequate animal evidence and limited human evidence. It is instructive to note that the animal testing relied upon by IARC involved the continuous application of creosote to the shaved skin of rodents. After weeks of creosote application, the animals developed cancerous skin lesions and in one test, lesions of the lung. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has stated that coal tar creosote is a probable human carcinogen based on both human and animal studies.[3] As such, the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 0.2 milligrams of coal tar creosote per cubic meter of air (0.2mg/m3) in the workplace during an 8-hour day, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that spills or accidental releases into the environment of one pound (0.454kg) or more of creosote be reported to them.[4]

There is no unique exposure pathway of children to creosote. Children exposed to creosote will probably experience the same health effects seen in adults exposed to creosote. It is unknown whether children differ from adults in their susceptibility to health effects from creosote.

A 2005 mortality study of creosote workers found no evidence supporting an increased risk of cancer death as a result of exposure to creosote. Based on the findings of the largest mortality study to date of workers employed in creosote wood treating plants, there is no evidence that employment at creosote wood-treating plants or exposure to creosote-based preservatives was associated with any significant mortality increase from either site-specific cancers or non-malignant diseases. The study consisted of 2,179 employees at eleven plants in the United States where wood was treated with creosote preservatives. Some workers began work in the 1940s to 1950s. The observation period of the study covered 1979- 2001. The average length of employment was 12.5 years. One third of the study subjects was employed for over 15 years.

musicbebe Wrote:
> Also, do you have the "All
> New" square foot gardening book, or did you work
> from the classic book, and do you know if the
> newer version is worth buying (I have the old
> book, but am following the website's updated
> advice to use raised beds, etc).

Check your local library for the book maybe?? Ours has plenty of the new book, as well as the old, to look at to compare.

Irene,

Thanks for the warning. We'd heard about that, but our railroad ties are about 200 years old, so we assumed they've done what leaching they are going to do. Or am I wrong about that? Some of them are in fact rotted out in the middle, so maybe that's a sign they have lost a lot of that tar?

Tanawana,

What a great idea! Why didn't I think of that? All the bookstores in my area are sold out of it, but I didn't think to check the library.

Jodi,

If you're out there, I would love your advice! (See my second post in this thread).

oops sorry bebe i missed yer post ! lol

i did some stuff from seed like all my salad greens and the bigger stuff , cukes, squashes, melons ,tomatoes strawberries, etc i made my own transplants ... this year im doing the same ive actually just started my transplants in flats and have them warming on an old heating blanket covered with plastic (to keep moisture away from the electric blanket , i used to use old water bed heaters but most of mine burnt out now and their harder and harder to get used lol waterbeds just arent popular anymore i dont leave the blanket on at night or when i leave the house tho im just too paranoid about something faulting and coming home to a burned house

the crops i grew were, about 20 different kinds of salad greens, sweet peppers, tomatoes big ones, tomatoes cherry, cukes, squashes, zuchini, honeydew melons, strawberries, spinach , romaine, baby carrots, big carrots, radishes , japanese greens, baby potatoes. and peas , oops and beets for beettops

with this many greens i could constantly snip baby leaves off (i love baby greens lol) and i staggered planting every week id toss down another handfull of mixed seeds

the size you have will probably work out great for you , you are just gonna have to experiment and see salad greens grow pretty quick so you can plant this amongst some of your slower stuff while the slow stuff grows too

sorry i dotn have any pics from last year but i will be taking lots this year , the camera fell overboard last year i dont have the book an old hippy friend of mine showed me how to garden this way some 20 years ago, its pretty easy but the book is great i checked it out in the liabrary one year so its very helpfull to have

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2009 04:37PM by Jgunn.

Jodi,

Thanks for the advice! Someone who lives nearby us lost their house recently to a fire started by an electric blanket. Their house was all wood and went up in flames real quick. We are friends with a local fireman and so we hear the details like this! So it's good you take precautions!

Do you go so far as to cover your seeds or seedlings with plastic covered cages to protect them from spring rains and wind? The book recommends that and I wonder how necessary it is? Just more supplies I have to buy or make, but I will if it's a must.

Thanks again!

yep i do .. the plastic film is reusable for many years and it really does help tons ! .. an alternative if you dont want the plastic or cant afford it is go on freecycle and ask for old windows and make little posts to cover the areas with the glass in frames .. really easy and more sustainable then plastic and its free ! the plastic or glass keeps the soil warmer and grows your plants better

you dont need to buy the cages for the plastic you can make anything that basically keeps the plastic from touching the plants .. old tent stakes etc .. the frames and cages are just fancy expensive versions of this

plants started under plastic or glass and finished under plastic and glass can start and finish your growing season much longer than usual .. you may say have a 5 month growing season normaly .. with glass or plastic you might get 7 or 8 months or even more if you get really savvy

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2009 07:58PM by Jgunn.