Yeah, the fish industry has money for advertising to try to make people think it's the only source of omega 3s, but no one is going to heavily advertise from Kale Ship 7 what plant-based sources are good.

Thanks Suncloud.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kwan,

Khale is not a musician. She lives near New Orleans. You will love her.

I think you should plan on coming. However if we win the lottery we may be in New Mexico. LOL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Karmele,

I guess I had it easy with my kids. They pretty much eat what i put in front of them. All three were like that. they will try and like almost anything natural, with the exception of most animal products.

I was thinking of flax for the omegas too. When my son was two, he ate bowl after bowl of spiralized zucchini with flax oil on it. One evening he ate seventeen bowls of it.:0 You wouldn't believe how much my kids eat. No one does. They are all thin and muscular too. I can't believe how fantastic they look, and how healthy they are!!!

I have mine try different things and buy the ones they like again. I would continue to have him try things he had previously not liked because tastes change often for kids. If he says he doesn't like something, still put it at his place at the table and just say, "ok, you don't have to eat it, I will if you don't." Usually mine will decide to try it. Mine have come to realize i am right about their tastes changing.

I wish the whole world had access to all the wonderful fruits there are. My kids love fruit the most, by far. Mango, pineapple, satsuma, melon, grapes. We are eating 40 pounds of bananas in less than a week.



When my little middle got sick, before we went on a high raw diet, other people didn't notice, but I did. Never underestimate your intuitiveness. Work at knowing your kids and you will "know" your kids.

Pakd4fun - sounds like you really have a knack for getting your kids to eat the right things. Are you feeding your kids 100% raw vegan? It seems like all the literature I read claims that vegan isn't enough for growing children and that some form of animal product is needed. Thanks.

Hey rawguy1,

My kids are high raw. I mean their diet is a high percent raw vegan.

We have been transitioning for around two and a half years, while remaining high raw the entire time. We have eliminated "bad" foods slowly, which is perfect for us.

On rare occasions they still eat some cheese (usually goat) and eggs. They eat honey sometimes. They feel sick when they eat the cheese and eggs. I feel they will choose to stop eating those things soon and then I may supplement for B12.

Some cooked things we are still eating, other than the animal products I mentioned, are beans, legumes, certain grains (like quinoa and oats) and steamed veggies.

I feel like my children's relationship with food is equally as important as the nutrition they get from it. When I read stories of people with eating disorders i realized how careful I have to be when drastically changing their diet. What they put in their mouths is so personal. They need to learn their own self control. They need to understand what food is and what is NOT food.

Pakd4fun,

I love your attitude with your kids! So glad you're allowing them to make their own decisions, while providing them with such great stuff! Makes so much sense.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is awful, but, and pardon my bile here, is it
> veganism's fault this woman didn't know what she
> was doing? It is constantly exasperating to me
> that things like, "Scottish vegan girl admitted to
> hospital with rickets!" always hit the presses,
> but one never hears a hue and a cry over the
> thousands of lardy tots driven directly to
> diabetes mellitus by their "loving" but utterly
> stupid parents! What is WRONG with people?!
>
> I wonder what Shazzola has to say about this?--off
> to her Mupdate, or Twlog or whatever she's calling
> it these days . . .


Actually here in the U.S you hear alot about childhood diabetes and childhood obesity on the news. I think the article is a great reminder that everyone's body is different. Some people do well on vegan diets but others struggle. We shouldn't become frustrated just because the diet that worked for us didn't work for others.

Thanks for the compliment Suncloud. That means a whole lot coming from you.

illuminationhighrock,

Yes, we hear a lot about childhood nutrition-deficit-related disorders, like diabetes. But we NEVER hear, for example, Dr. Oz on Oprah go, "Stop feeding your kids crap and making them diabetic!" And we never shall, because there's a double standard: The conventional way of eating is tacitly accepted even while it's criticized by the medical establishment and us on the other side. You can feed your kid Big Macs twice a day, and people go, tut-tut. But try to get your kid's iron levels up with only leafy greens--you'll be publicly pilloried as a weirdo and your diligence as a parent may be questioned. It's insane.

It's not a matter of diet; it's a matter of really observing the affect of food, of whatever kind, on one's children. People here in the U.S. actually feed their children into diabetes mellitus and no one ever publicly chastises them for doing it. It's always couched in passive terms. The parents are never held primarily responsible. I was overweight for most of my life[hormones and excessive grain foods] and my mother practically drove herself mad trying to make our already healthy diet healthier in an attempt to help me. I just can't believe the obese woman with obese children and several six-packs of 16 oz. colas slung over the sides of her produce-free shopping cart at my local grocery store is making any kind of effort for her kids! I can't!

Pakd4fun you rock! I think your kids will do very well! Thanks.

Thanks rawguy1!

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> illuminationhighrock,
>
> Yes, we hear a lot about childhood
> nutrition-deficit-related disorders, like
> diabetes. But we NEVER hear, for example, Dr. Oz
> on Oprah go, "Stop feeding your kids crap and
> making them diabetic!" And we never shall,
> because there's a double standard: The
> conventional way of eating is tacitly accepted
> even while it's criticized by the medical
> establishment and us on the other side. You can
> feed your kid Big Macs twice a day, and people go,
> tut-tut. But try to get your kid's iron levels up
> with only leafy greens--you'll be publicly
> pilloried as a weirdo and your diligence as a
> parent may be questioned. It's insane.
>
> It's not a matter of diet; it's a matter of really
> observing the affect of food, of whatever kind, on
> one's children. People here in the U.S. actually
> feed their children into diabetes mellitus and no
> one ever publicly chastises them for doing it.
> It's always couched in passive terms. The parents
> are never held primarily responsible. I was
> overweight for most of my life and my mother
> practically drove herself mad trying to make our
> already healthy diet healthier in an attempt to
> help me. I just can't believe the obese woman with
> obese children and several six-packs of 16 oz.
> colas slung over the sides of her produce-free
> shopping cart at my local grocery store is making
> any kind of effort for her kids! I can't!


Dude, you remind me of this guy

[www.dailymotion.com]

skip to 1:54

feedomfries,

Omigod! Scaaaary! Thanks for pointing that out!

The article says:

<<They had been raw vegans for three years, and ate plenty of fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, soya and pulses, but no meat, fish or dairy.>>

How is eating grains, soya and pulses considered being " RAW vegans"? I don't get it. I feel like the person who wrote this article or Holly herself has a totally different definition of what raw vegan is. This is TOTALLY confusing to me.

This is like saying " We were vegetarian for three years and ate plenty of met fish and dairy." I mean, what is the difference? That sentence makes no sense nor does the entire article.

Maybe if they got their definitions straight, we could understand the article.
I have no idea what this article was trying to say or accomplish. I also can't understand how Holly has a site that says giveitomraw and state she is a "well known" RAW vegan if she considers grains soy and pulses to be raw. Grains can mess with blood sugar levels as well as a host of other things. Soy can mess with hormone levels etc. What on earth is this woman trying to say or do for that matter?

Either the writer or HOlly need to get their definition STRAIGHT first before anyone can respond.

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The article says:
>
> <>
>
> How is eating grains, soya and pulses considered
> being " RAW vegans"? I don't get it. I feel like
> the person who wrote this article or Holly
> herself has a totally different definition of what
> raw vegan is. This is TOTALLY confusing to me.
>
> This is like saying " We were vegetarian for three
> years and ate plenty of met fish and dairy." I
> mean, what is the difference? That sentence makes
> no sense nor does the entire article.
>
> Maybe if they got their definitions straight, we
> could understand the article.
> I have no idea what this article was trying to say
> or accomplish. I also can't understand how Holly
> has a site that says giveitomraw and state she is
> a "well known" RAW vegan if she considers grains
> soy and pulses to be raw. Grains can mess with
> blood sugar levels as well as a host of other
> things. Soy can mess with hormone levels etc. What
> on earth is this woman trying to say or do for
> that matter?
>
> Either the writer or HOlly need to get their
> definition STRAIGHT first before anyone can
> respond.


You are right La V!
Its a nonsense article!
How could we make sense of such conflicting information?


More fitting headline for the article may be...


Hope Woman realises that adding soy products, grains and pulses to a raw vegan diet has detrimental effect on health!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2009 09:46AM by The Fruit Faery.

la_v,

The writer of the article does compare a vegan diet, high in cooked grains and pulses, with what Holly was doing, so Holly's grains and pulses must have been sprouted. Now, I heard somewhere years ago that a diet excessively high in sprouted grains and pulses can cause pernicious anemia and other vitamin uptake problems. Judging by the symptoms exhibited in Holly's children, that's looking plausible.

Oh - so let me get this straight. All of her family nutrition problems that apparently appeared "overnight" were suddenly answered by one dusty book about Vitamin D & Protein?!?! Forgive me, but that's just LAUGHABLE !!! That's like me picking up ONE book from the shelf about Vegan diet and claiming that IT solved and answered all my questions and problems, without careful research and COMPARING NOTES from OTHER SOURCES !!! Does she think we all just magically switched to the vegan raw lifestyle after reading ONE BOOK or ONE abstract newspaper article off the beaten path?? Uh...... that would be a "NO." I'm not dumb enough to make that drastic of a decision without enough logical and practical research behind it to lead me to my EDUCATED conclusions.

Good grief! It's people like HER that give us balanced, logical, sensible folks a bad rap. *sigh* And the battles goes on................

*****************************
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

Tamukha,

<<The writer of the article does compare a vegan diet, high in cooked grains and pulses, with what Holly was doing, so Holly's grains and pulses must have been sprouted.>>

I highly doubt it. This ought to be the case but this article is so stultifyingly
jagged that it is dubious.

la_v,

The article does have the whiff of Ulterior Motive No. 2 about it, but the writer mentions that Holly's family's diet had consisted of plenty of raw fruits and vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains, soya, and pulses. Then, "There is a significant difference between being vegan (and eating cooked foods) and raw vegan. Vegans benefit from fortified cereals, baked goods and a wider variety of grains and pulses". I read this as a comparison between a vegan diet, in which grains and pulses are cooked, and Holly's family's diet, which was raw; and I take that as most people do, at face value. I supposed that mentioning grains and pulses twice would not need to have been done, unless Holly's grains and pulses were distinct from the typical vegan cooked ones. That is, unless hers were sprouted. Although, who knows? It does read like a hatchet job against raw, and I'm just wondering what has become of Holly, et al, since this was published . . .

Looks like the Mail did a story on this too.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

What's interesting is the poll that shows 68% think the state should intervene if parents put their children on an extreme diet.

The feedback comments are interesting too...

"I'm glad the kids are now better. It's complete lunacy that ANYONE could think that this way of eating is balanced and healthy.
- Sharon, Cardiff, UK, 24/6/2008 02:08"

Gary

I read the article, and on the surface, I don't see fruit, or leafy greens, and in the UK, like in the northern half of the US, vitamin D deficiency is a real concern, if you don't supplement it or do something to make up for the sunshine you aren't getting.

Vegetables, while important, are very low in calories.
Fruit, while very high in carbs and vitamins, are not the best source of minerals.
Kids need to eat a lot of nutrients - they are growing!

I'd like to see a newspaper feature on a family that is doing it well, with healthy, happy kids, and energetic, happy parents.

Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much
We are all in this together!
Namasté

Tamukha,

I understand your point however it feels as if the writer just gave a shpieeel
on what raw veganism is... differentiated it from vegan and then STILL made the egregious error of writing an article on a supposed RAW vegan while TOTALLY IGNORING the fact that she was not. This happens a lot ... I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say that they were vegetarian but then thought that eating chicken and turkey didn't COUNT as meat. Or... saying " I am vegan and I eat fish." I just want to call a spade a spade. This article was an incredible piece of nonsensical nonsense and a waste of everyone's time. I might as well have read an article on an aetheist who prays to Jesus or a Christian who doesn't believe in God. If Holly sprouted her pulses, the writer would have mentioned it because this article was geared to the general public. Even if the article was geared to raw foodists ( which it obviously was not), the word "sprouted" would have been appropriate but it was not mentioned. The reason why it was not mentioned is not because the writer was too lazy to type the word "sprouted" but because they simply were not.