Ive seen people talking about this in past threads.

Kind of lame I cant talk about raw egg yolks but,
what about raw bee pollen? *sigh*

What about reasons Not to eat raw egg yolks, thats still glorifying vegan and raw.
Or reasons to Not eat raw bee pollen?
Thats still glorifying vegan and raw.

Some people see eating honey like eating dairy products. You are consuming a different animals sustenance and hard work.

Did the raw egg yolks come from an animal? I don't think that would be very vegan if they did and this is a vegan board.

david

I think your post is, at least, to try to make people uncomfortable by calling what we talk about on here (or not) as "lame" and at worst just an attempt on your part to make yourself feel superior/better.

Eggs aren't vegan; honey isn't vegan. Start your convo on another board that's not vegan-based.

Oh, I see you've already been warned. Now it's just trolling. No one dislikes you if you eat animal products, but this is a vegan board, so please keep it respectful.

There is no elitist action going on here, I am not trolling or trying to start conflict. I am extremely open minded about many different cultures and ideas and health related topics. Always open to learning, I think some here are scared by that. Either way, I am not going to argue, name call, prod or point fingers. I just will leave my question open.

I read other posts here about raw honey, and bee pollen.
Ive read it in recipes on this board, oh and just last week I believe it was for protection against the swine flue or avian flue some flue in that criteria.
Or maybe it was for some oil blend, Ill dig for it if thats really needed.

Im not really concerned what some people See eating honey as, weaither it be dairy, or bee puss etc. etc... And if it offends you I dont think you need to comment, or rea the board. Im not trying or intend to offend anyone, Im trying to learn what reasons you or A Lot of raw foodists eat honey. A lot of raw foodists eat fish and eggs yolks.

Im now curious as to other reasons, other then personal opinion, rather Health reasons why it would be unhealthy, pros, cons etc.
this is also a board that talks about health issues, and personal experiences.

From a vegan, raw food perspective (other then bees work for the honey), or eggs are from chickens (btw my friends have chickens who lay eggs and dont do anything with them) who dont eat any animal products other then those eggs there chickens leave, wich are eaten in raw form so you know.. what are health benefits if any, and what are health dangers?


As I said, Im not going to engage in conflict, so if you dont enjoy my thread, please dont respond, or engage.. if you have something educational for me to read, please post a link or some thoughts and I will respond.

As far as vegan goes david... Im sure a nother animal made your clothing, your hat, your back pack, your shoes. Those are other animals hard work just incase you forgot.. TECHNICALLY and REALISTICALLY, that isnt vegan.


Thank you for your reply tho friend. Much love and respect. <3

Humyns = animals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2009 01:10AM by herbalgerbals.

Yeah, much "love" and "respect."

raw eggs runs the risk of samonella
raw honey runs the risk of botulism
raw meat runs the risk of internal parasites

those are all good reasons in my mind not to eat these foods, unless of course you desire samonella, botulism and internal parasites

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

The Vegan issue is not a difficult one. One either does this wholly (or in part) for either health or ethical reasons....or both. In my case, it's both. I find it an excellent ideal (for both reasons) to avoid imprisoning, enslaving, killing or using animals if at all possible. My personal opinion is that if everyone had that attitude, the world would be a much better place.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Clothes are made mostly, and generally by other people.. wich are animals, which Im sure are generally underpaid, in poor work conditions, exploited and exhausted, thats why I kind of lost the definition of vegan, becuase homes, cars, your computers, everything is in some way exploited from an animal...
So, the raw or living foods, and just putting as much effort not to harm other life seems much, much more realistic to me..
This is why I find hypocrisy in people such as utopian life here, who think people of different mind sets, or cultures are wrong, or deemed elitist straight from the get go because they have no problem accpeting others views or ideas, or becuase thyey dont live to please or live up to another persons standards. Its quite bitter.

What is botulism?
I will google it as well if you would rather me do that..

And Utopian life
dont visit my threads or post your replies if your going to try and lead me into some childish battle.

Grow up. Im hear to learn, and listen and share and exchange personal experiences with other open minded friends. Regardless of my beliefs or yours! I have much respect and love for anyone here, but as any human I have my limits..
I do have a heavy temper (wich I work on everyday!) towards people who are closed minded or seek one way views towards anyones who is seeking to learn and be open minded. I dont care or enjoy some sort of one way view of thinking, and that is Exactly what you and david expressed (atleast thats how I felt), but still I smile and say good day. So just take and run with it.

I never said my clothes didn't come from an animal. I'm not the most compassionate raw vegan, but I do respect the rules of this board and the other people that are more compassionate. There are many places to ask those kinds of questions.

david

Yea, and a raw vegan board is the best to get answers as to WHY they wouldnt eat them.
And as I stated previously, Ive read multiple threads including raw bee pollen and honey, and again, one just last week about oils to protect ourselves from the flue.
So, take it as you will. but I see no wrong here.

herbalgerbals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea, and a raw vegan board is the best to get
> answers as to WHY they wouldnt eat them.
> And as I stated previously, Ive read multiple
> threads including raw bee pollen and honey...

Hi herbal,
You seem very well informed but I believe we go by the Vegan Society definition where bees are protected. Also this is the main board so is pretty strict.

"Bees are manipulated worldwide to produce many products for human use: honey, beeswax, propolis, bee pollen, royal jelly and venom. They are intelligent insects with a complex communication system.
Because bees are seen flying free, they are also often considered free of the usual cruelties of the animal farming industry. However bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter..."

[www.vegansociety.com]

Just to clarify, I never said anyone was wrong if they weren't vegan, etc, so I don't know where your hypocrisy statement came form, but as most of your statements in this thread, it's baseless and immature.

I tell my omnivorous boyfriend all the time that he's the best person I know and I love being with him, not that that's any of your business.

If you really wanted questions answered, you wouldn't have spent paragraph after paragraph trying to instigate and belittle the two people who were trying to tell you to get help elsewhere; you would have gone elsewhere instead.

I will post wherever I find appropriate and read whatever I find interesting, as long as it's within the rules of the board. You seem to have trouble with that one.

The hypocrisy Im speaking of, is that speaking of raw bee pollen/honey in Other threads, and it was actually for RECIPES and USE, yet seems to be completely alright, But not here?

Hypocrisy in your reply to a friend poster as follows....

Re: What do you think about this(famaly think im nuts)
Posted by: Utopian Life (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2009 03:07PM
"For you to be happy in your life, do you need others to listen to you? I would suggest to just be happy with yourself and what you're doing and who cares what anyone else thinks!"
end quote.

You really want to go there, attempting to bring me down, Ill play.
The hypocrisy I feel being presented, just as YOU would like to post where you find appropriate, so do I. I dont find anything wrong with posting this here. If I simply should of posted it under teh health section, for that I will admit wrong doing, but for simply being curious pros and cons on the issue, there is no wrong doing. If Im really breaking so many rules, then bann me Im sure the many of you wouldnt miss me since my posts are so baseless and immature, right utopian?
I find these topics interesting, and obviously, even one other person does.
I like to learn so I wont stop asking questions.

Why not go to every other thread with honey/bee pollen and silence them aswell, share your two sense with them "utopian"?

Seriously. Grab a hold of a life, a book and read more on the utopian lifestyle.
I dont know how old you are, but my 10year old cousins do this.

And the more paragraphs I post, the more I learn about my beliefs, strengths and motivations. So I will defend myself.

And for the proof of my readings about honey in other threads....


REMEMBER: The stimulating aroma of cinnamon or cloves, but if you touched your lips with it, it could cause irritation.... or the fresh aroma of lemon and sipping a hot fresh squeezed lemon drink with honey if you had a cold or sore throat... and Vick's Vapor Rub....the menthol aroma...your Mom would rub it on your chest to help you breathe easier at night in times of congestion....the pungent rosemary herb in cooking...


Chopped apples and walnuts, with a drizzle of whatever liquid sweetener you use (agave, raw honey, or whatever) and a dash of cinnamon; my carnivore fiance LOVES this.

Try avocado with sea salt and pepper!! It's like scrambled eggs and you can eat it right out of the shell! ( "eggs" are mentioned in some way)

As far as my juice line-up goes.... same old same old:

2 large glasses of orange juice with greens powder added
1 'Synergy' strawberry flavored kombucha drink
some lemonade made with honey


CHILI CILANTRO: (for those this will work for)
1 4oz can green chilis
1/4 C fresh cilanto
1/4 C water
1/4 C fresh lime juice
1-2 garlic cloves pressed
2 tsp raw honey

In a bowl combine soy sauce, ACV, sweetener such as nectar or honey (maybe warm it a little because raw honey is solid), and cayanne pepper to taste. Sorry no porportions on that, I just add until it tastes right.


"mmmmmm honey.

peace- "

I know that honey is not vegan, but there are health benefits to eating it. I imagine some people may be more willing to try honey than agave which they may not be familiar with. I have seen honey in a lot of raw vegan recipe books, and I am now of the mindset that honey is one thing that many vegans are willing to make an exception on, be it for health benefits, taste, familiarity, etc. I believe that organic honey from a reputable source is not all that bad! Organic bee farms are thriving, and non organic hives are in trouble, that gives me reason to believe that organic bees are not having excessive amounts of their food (honey) stolen from them.


made some sort of cookie which was ground cashews, carob, maca, honey, vanilla, coconut and some pecans. It tasted real good.

I have plans on making a key lime raw pudding sometime this week, I've made it before and it's really good. It has avocado, lime juice, and raw honey, and dates I believe.

ananas, oranges, my key lime pudding (it's blended avocados, raw honey or whatever you like to use, and fresh lime juice) so I also had a fruity day, except for the green juice I had in the eve. I give the day a very high 2 on my scale of 1-3.


This morning I had
papya
banana
strawberries
raw oats
bee pollen
soy milk (is there raw soy milk? hmm)
hemp powder

Gabriel Cousens recommended flax seeds + spirulina and bee pollen to replace the cottage cheese and flax in the Budwig protocol. I know spirulina and bee pollen are not really vegan, but maybe they're a bit of a better choice than dairy protein.

I will have to try this "green phytofoods powder" and bee pollen. Agave nectar
sounds very promising.

A typical day for me is: upon waking- water, then I head downstairs and make my juice- 36 oz filtered water, juice of 1 lemon, a heaping tablespoon of a green phytofoods powder, a teaspoon of fresh minced ginger, bee pollen (if you do that, start off slowly as it can trigger allergic reactions!), and agave nectar to sweeten (tastes like sugar but without the harmful affects). Then, midmornin


Bee Pollen
Lecithin Granules
Molasses, blackstrap
Soured Dairy Products



THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, so I find no problem not posting about this topic, However, if your going to shush me for it, you should be CONSISTENT and not pick or single people out in the process. Its not very respectful or peaceful.

And Im sorry for putting those posts on spot, but I felt it was needed.

herbalgerbals,

Your posts in this thread are sounding and feeling very contentious and challenging of the vegan lifestyle. It is not necessary that you be vegan to participate here, but the posts here must be vegan in nature.

Your questioning of vegan ethics and lifestyle, and the debating and contentious nature of your posts makes me wonder if you are in the right forum.

If I see another post from you that feels like it is contentious about or debating with the vegan lifestyle, I will invite you to leave the forum.

Considered yourself warned for the last time, the next time there will not be a warning, only action from me.

I haven't had honey since I became vegan about 7 years ago. Do you think that because one person on this forum eats honey that we all do?

Whenever I see "honey," I think "agave nectar" and use that.

As for your other statements, I think your posts and your mindset speak for themselves and I will let that be.

I think discussing the reasons why people DON'T eat or wear animal products is a vegan discussion.

Many people who consider themselves "raw Vegan" consume honey. We (as a raw vegan community) should be open to discussions about the reasons why we choose our foods. Discussions help teach and learn.

My family and I will eat honey occasionally. I started eating local honey for allergies years ago. My allergies were debilitating and the honey helped so much!!! Since changing my diet and figuring out a lot of my allergy triggers, I haven't needed the honey any longer and we have stopped eating it daily. We very rarely eat anything sweetened with more than just fruit. We have a visitor over for a few days and she made the kids hot tea with honey yesterday and they started bouncing off the walls after that. They became so hyper. We think it must have been the honey. That made me think we might cut it out altogether now. We mostly phased it out naturally anyway.

We did not "quit" eating eggs completely. We have yard chickens and they lay eggs all the time that they have no intention of setting on. They will be eaten by some animal, if not us. When the hens plan on nesting and hatching their eggs, they find a secret spot, such as the loft in the barn, And they collect ten or so eggs in a nest. We leave them alone then. We have been collecting the "stray" eggs to give to the dogs and cats. We talk about eating them and we do on occasion. I don't believe the hens "toiled" over laying them in the least (all chickens have eggs that must be released) and we don't feel it is inhumane to eat them since they have never been incubated, they just don't digest right for us any more (I guess they never did, LOL). They aren't very appealing to me. The rest of the family still likes them but since they don't digest easily any more, they don't always vote to have them. When they go to visit my in-laws they want to join in on eating them. The last time we were with the in-laws, there were dead animals in the eggs and I was glad the kids didn't have to make the choice to eat them or not. I will not tell the kids they can't have them, but I will just continue to let more and more time go by between eating them and soon they will not want to deal with the poor feeling they have after eating them. Eggs eventually won't appeal to them, like mac and cheese no longer appeals to them.

Although the arguing makes me nervous, the posts have some educational value for new vegans such as myself. I am looking at nature and animals in a different light these days. I also can't imagine eating animal products raw and unpasteurized. It is too dangerous. I live in the most densely populated region in the US, so anything that is raised here is suspect in my estimation due to the pollutants in the air and soil. I raise two sheep as pets and use their wool for spinning and weaving. There is some guilt now regarding that.

For pollen, how about eating flowers instead of bee products?