I have had longterm illnesses, n decided to go vegan a few yrs ago. My health greatly has improved, though I still have some illness to deal with. I was told, after going vegan, that I have a vitamin d deficiency. Of about 4 when it's supposed to be 30. I realize dr's are not sure what they're doing, measuring vitamin levels in patients. Do you think they compare results with meateaters' results, since meateating is unfortunately the norm? Could this "lack of vitamin" be only lack of meat? Maybe the vitamin d they are checking for is a chemical they found in animal meat? I know some is supposed to be from sunlight. No one really knows though. It's all experimental. All my other vitamins registered normal. If that really shows anything, since ideas about vitamins n how they work in the body are just that... ideas. Do you think vegans do well relying on dr's if their bodies are compared to meateaters, n they believe meat is healthy? Yeah, I definitely don't. There seems to be some debate about vegans missing certain "important" nutrients that come from meat. Of course it isn't true. What do you think about the vitamins they're checking for, n how they came up with all of the standards?

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

It's probably something to be concerned about at that level.

Get more sun and consider supplementation if levels don't rise.

"Of course it isn't true. What do you think about the vitamins they're checking for, n how they came up with all of the standards?"

Yeah, it is true, and I'm a raw vegan myself. Vegans most definitely can be deficient in critical nutrients (especially raw vegans), which is why you need to follow a well-balanced diet in order to account for all nutrients. If you're not getting sunlight on a consistent basis and haven't for a while, and haven't been supplementing, you are very likely going to be deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D isn't really a vitamin, either, it's a steroid hormone and impacts hundreds if not thousands of genes and plays a huge role in the prevention and reversal of disease. Are you raw or just vegan?

By the way, high-quality meat when eaten raw (prepared properly) or cooked at low temperatures isn't really unhealthy and in fact can have lots of benefits. Vegan or not vegan, something still dies.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 07:08PM by jtprindl.

I was thinking of trying to eat mushrooms everyday, which have vitamin d, but I decided against it because I am on a mold diet. I also stopped eating bread products that contain yeast, after learning that can cause people to die. That is a source of vitamin d also. Some say people need to eat it, n i totally don't believe that. How could people say we are supposed to eat that ever? Most bread has it, unless unleavened. People get attacked by the organisms. Like I've said, I've gotten much healthier since going vegan over 2 yrs ago. Raw a couple of months ago. Also, I don't believe vegans are meant to spend their lives taking a vitamin pill because they "don't have enough vitamins." Isn't very natural When food is what contains all the nutrients. Vitamins usually just contain chemical isolates from food, or strange synthetic junk. No human can really know what exact vitamins our bodies are supposed to have.

"
> By the way, high-quality meat when eaten raw
> (prepared properly) or cooked at low temperatures
> isn't really unhealthy and in fact can have lots
> of benefits. Vegan or not vegan, something still
> dies."

Are you aware that, even in cooked meat, but especially in raw, that there's a huge risk of eating parasites, such as intestinal worms? Tapeworm, roundworm, etc, that are really common?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, high-quality meat when eaten raw
> (prepared properly) or cooked at low temperatures
> isn't really unhealthy and in fact can have lots
> of benefits. Vegan or not vegan, something still
> dies.

he? Did a nerve got damaged during the fireworks?

"Like I've said, I've gotten much healthier since going vegan over 2 yrs ago."

Yeah but just because your diet now is healthier than it used to be, that doesn't mean everything is fine. Obviously most vegan diets are going to be healthier than the SAD diet, but that's one of the worst diets in the world, so it's not saying much. If you aren't getting bare-skin sunlight exposure on a consistent basis, you're very likely deficient in vitamin D. Doctors know how to test for nutrients and if you have low levels of anything in your blood, you likely have even lower levels in your cells because blood tests don't show what is being absorbed. What raw vegan foods are you eating to get enough B12, zinc, iron, iodine, and omega-3's (ALA to convert into EPA/DHA)?

intrstelr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "
> > By the way, high-quality meat when eaten raw
> > (prepared properly) or cooked at low
> temperatures
> > isn't really unhealthy and in fact can have
> lots
> > of benefits. Vegan or not vegan, something
> still
> > dies."
>
> Are you aware that, even in cooked meat, but
> especially in raw, that there's a huge risk of
> eating parasites, such as intestinal worms?
> Tapeworm, roundworm, etc, that are really common?


Yes, that would be low-quality meat. If you slaughter an animal and eat it on the spot or very shortly after, or if you prepare it properly, you avoid this. I'm not referring to factory-farm animals that are jacked up with antibiotics and hormones that are GM fed. I definitely wouldn't do this, but there's a lot of dogma in the vegan community regarding animal foods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 07:51PM by jtprindl.

stay away from meat:

Meat is as bad as smoking [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Eating meat is cruel [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

eating meat creates warts in the skin [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

meat is a carcinogen [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

meat and bladder infections [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

animal fat is loaded with pollutants [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

tumors use meat to grow [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

cancer grows when eating meat [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

meat metabolizes in sulfuric acid [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

meat makes acidic bacteria proliferate [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

I can post more science against meat if you want

>Also, I don't believe vegans are meant to spend their lives taking a vitamin pill because they "don't have enough vitamins." Isn't very natural When food is what contains all the nutrients.


yes, intrstelr, and the sun is one of those "nutrients"., unless you're a naked mole rat.

be careful with your concepts, b12 and vit d can bite you. what latitude do you live at?

>I can post more science against meat if you want

yeah, but it's not stone ground meat.


jtprindl needs to go where temp is, since he/she just promoted meat eating

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> intrstelr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "
> > > By the way, high-quality meat when eaten raw
> > > (prepared properly) or cooked at low
> > temperatures
> > > isn't really unhealthy and in fact can have
> > lots
> > > of benefits. Vegan or not vegan, something
> > still
> > > dies."
> >
> > Are you aware that, even in cooked meat, but
> > especially in raw, that there's a huge risk of
> > eating parasites, such as intestinal worms?
> > Tapeworm, roundworm, etc, that are really
> common?
>
>
> Yes, that would be low-quality meat. If you
> slaughter an animal and eat it on the spot or very
> shortly after, or if you prepare it properly, you
> avoid this.


You told you that? It's not true and a rather crazy notion.

"I can post more science against meat if you want"

That's all overly cooked meat or meat from unhealthy, contaminated sources such as factory farms. I'm not promoting meat in any way, it's just not as demonic as many vegans make it out to be in regards to health, especially when it comes from a clean source (as in wild game) and isn't cooked at extremely high temperatures. Okinawan's eat animal protein.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I can post more science against meat if you
> want"
>
> That's all overly cooked meat or meat from
> unhealthy, contaminated sources such as factory
> farms. I'm not promoting meat in any way, it's
> just not as demonic as many vegans make it out to
> be in regards to health, especially when it comes
> from a clean source (as in wild game) and isn't
> cooked at extremely high temperatures. Okinawan's
> eat animal protein.

You've got to be kidding. It's really time for you to read up on parasites.

"You've got to be kidding. It's really time for you to read up on parasites."

Yes, there are risks of parasites... the point is that not all meat eaters are unhealthy or ridden with parasites. The Okinawan's are an example of a culture that eats animals and has a very high life expectancy with very little disease.

jtprindl, hopefully nobody will eat you and create justifications. But that is what you are doing to other animals and blah blah

[en.wikipedia.org]

"jtprindl, hopefully nobody will eat you and create justifications. But that is what you are doing to other animals and blah blah"

So you eating plants isn't responsible for the death of something? why is it okay to kill one form of life for consumption but not another?

because plants are not equal. Why would you compare yourself to a plant? Plants are not animals. They are a different kingdom. Like I said, If someone (another animal) cuts one of your limbs out and start talking about the vitamins, you would get upset.

"because plants are not equal. Why would you compare yourself to a plant? Plants are not animals. They are a different kingdom. Like I said, If someone (another animal) cuts one of your limbs out and start talking about the vitamins, you would get upset."

What makes yours or an animal's life more valuable than a plant's life? They aren't equal because you say so? Life is life, being a vegan doesn't mean you aren't responsible for death.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What makes yours or an animal's life more valuable
> than a plant's life? They aren't equal because you
> say so?

it is called empathy

[en.wikipedia.org]

my empathy towards my equals is greater than towards those of different kingdoms. Since I am an animal, I am naturally able to give more value to animal life than to plant life as I recognize myself as another animal. Their physic is just as mine. Why don't you compare yourself with a virus? Don't viruses have the right to invade you?

This statement "promotes" meat eating

"By the way, high-quality meat when eaten raw (prepared properly) or cooked at low temperatures isn't really unhealthy and in fact can have lots of benefits. Vegan or not vegan, something still dies."

say hi to powerlifter for me.


>The Okinawan's are an example of a culture that eats animals and has a very high life expectancy with very little disease.

jtprindl getting off topic.

A = eats animals
B = has high life expectancy with very little disease

B does not prove anything relative to the consumption of A with respect to the statements about meat by the posters in this thread.

Can you justify ANYTHING that the okinawan's do because they live long?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You've got to be kidding. It's really time for
> you to read up on parasites."
>
> Yes, there are risks of parasites... the point is
> that not all meat eaters are unhealthy or ridden
> with parasites. The Okinawan's are an example of a
> culture that eats animals and has a very high life
> expectancy with very little disease.

We are all riddled with parasites - there is no escaping that fact. But, yes, the people with the most energy that I have ever known in my life are my Polish in-laws and they eat enormous, staggering, amounts of meat and then jump up from the table and are on to more work, work, work like energizer bunnies.

"my empathy towards my equals is greater than towards those of different kingdoms. Since I am an animal, I am naturally able to give more value to animal life than to plant life as I recognize myself as another animal. Their physic is just as mine. Why don't you compare yourself with a virus? Don't viruses have the right to invade you?"

You having an arrogant, egotistical mindset where you believe your kingdom's life is more valuable than others is just that. Using your logic, it would be okay if extra-terrestrials came to Earth and cooked you because they don't recognize themselves as Earthlings. Funny how you say 'hopefully nobody will eat you and create justifications'... and that's exactly what you're doing with plants.

And yes, viruses do have the right to invade me, it's called nature, and I also have the right to defend myself from them.

"jtprindl getting off topic."

Actually, you're getting off topic. When did I say Okinawan's longevity was caused by them eating animal products? I said despite eating animals, they are still very healthy and live a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2014 10:35PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl, getting away with murder is not a justification. You are confused. We need a judge Judy

"jtprindl, getting away with murder is not a justification."

What are you talking about?

>When did I say Okinawan's longevity was caused by them eating animal products? I said despite eating animals, they are still very healthy and live a long time.


And I'm saying that doesn't prove anything with respect to what you were responding to.


you're right, jtprindl, (A) there is nothing inherently wrong with eating animal products, but ( there are other aspects that come into play as far as ethics from a human standpoint as well as other factors, as you are well aware.

so the problem here is that you are talking about (A) and others here are talking about (. not going to get anywhere.

eating meat is participating in a consensual crime where the victim (the other animal) is mentally objectified in a form that justifies its murder

[en.wikipedia.org]

"eating meat is participating in a consensual crime where the victim (the other animal) is mentally objectified in a form that justifies its murder"

You can say the exact same thing about eating plants. You are not by any means responsible for less life being taken than carnivores are. The only difference is you feel that you and other animals have more of a right to life than plants, which would be a LACK of empathy towards life in general. Just because you cannot understand it from the perspective of a plant, that doesn't justify eating them is okay compared to eating animals.

jtprindl

no it is not exactly the same.

perhaps you should consider sentience, and perhaps some other things as well.

and spare me the plants "feel" stuff.

everything is on a continuum. otherwise you would feel the same about me killing a flea as compared to me killing your dog.

yeap, it is not the same. Getting the head cut off is not the same as cutting a lettuce of the ground. If you don't believe that, watch a video.