[www.youtube.com]

'DNA-damaging chemicals formed when meat is cooked stimulate breast cancer cells almost as much as pure estrogen and can infiltrate the ducts where most breast cancers arise."


[www.youtube.com]

"The cooked meat carcinogen PhIP found in fried bacon, fish, and chicken may not only trigger cancer and promote tumor growth, but also increase its metastatic potential by increasing its invasiveness."

this is his blog on the subject

[nutritionfacts.org]

you can write him a question there

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is his blog on the subject
>
> [nutritionfacts.org]-
> cooked-meat/
>
> you can write him a question there

That just links to his videos, he rarely ever links up the source studies or at least i can't find them on the site ?. If your going to make wild claims about curing fibromyalgia and such, then where are the source studies for us to read ?

This is a classic smoke screen tactic that many promoters and supplement companies use to bend the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2013 06:33PM by powerlifter.

look in "Sources Cited" they are linked to the actual studies.


[nutritionfacts.org]

R. D. Holland, T. Gehring, J. Taylor, B. G. Lake, N. J. Gooderham, R. J. Turesky. Formation of a mutagenic heterocyclic aromatic amine from creatinine in urine of meat eaters and vegetarians. Chem. Res. Toxicol. 2005 18(3):579 - 590

S. E. Steck, M. M. Gaudet, S. M. Eng, J. A. Britton, S. L. Teitelbaum, A. I. Neugut, R. M. Santella, M. D. Gammon. Cooked meat and risk of breast cancer--lifetime versus recent dietary intake. Epidemiology 2007 18(3):373 - 382

S. Rohrmann, S.-U. L. Jung, J. Linseisen, W. Pfau. Dietary intake of meat and meat-derived heterocyclic aromatic amines and their correlation with DNA adducts in female breast tissue. Mutagenesis 2009 24(2):127 - 132

S. N. Lauber, S. Ali, N. J. Gooderham. The cooked food derived carcinogen 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b] pyridine is a potent oestrogen: A mechanistic basis for its tissue-specific carcinogenicity. Carcinogenesis 2004 25(12):2509 - 2517

S. N. Lauber, N. J. Gooderham. The cooked meat-derived mammary carcinogen 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine promotes invasive behaviour of breast cancer cells. Toxicology 2011 279(1 - 3):139 - 145

L. S. DeBruin, P. A. Martos, P. D. Josephy. Detection of PhIP (2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine) in the milk of healthy women. Chem. Res. Toxicol. 2001 14(11):1523 - 1528

Rashmi Sinha, Deborah R. Gustafson, Martin Kulldorff, Wan-Qing Wen, James R. Cerhan, Wei Zheng. 2-Amino-1-methyl-6-phenylim-idazo[4,5-b]pyridine, a Carcinogen in High-Temperature-Cooked Meat, and Breast Cancer Risk. Journal of the National Cancer Institute 2000 92(16):1352 - 1354

P. Knekt, G. Steineck, R. Järvinen, T. Hakulinen, A. Aromaa. Intake of fried meat and risk of cancer: A follow-up study in Finland. Int. J. Cancer 1994 59(6):756 - 760

A. Ronco, E. De Stefani, M. Mendilaharsu, H. Deneo-Pellegrini. Meat, fat and risk of breast cancer: A case-control study from Uruguay. Int. J. Cancer 1996 65(3):328 - 331

That's cooked. What about the raw version?

USER111 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's cooked. What about the raw version?

[www.youtube.com]

It makes sense to me that the substances in meat that make people grow large would contribute to cancers growing large.

That's great information, thanks for sharing.

I subscribed to that channel, too!

Take care <3

~Genevieve Parry~

Visit My Blog --

[genevieveparry.empowernetwork.com]

Thank you Panchito!

I love Michael Greger. I so appreciate all the work from Dr. Greger and others associated with Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM). These good people are long-time vegans, many of them with medical degrees (including Dr. Greger). They inform the rest of us about research results, or conduct research themselves and publish it in peer-reviewed journals.

Several of PCRM's studies have found their way into the Evidence Analysis Library of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly American Dietetics Association), where the studies are awarded Grade I for their methodology and relevance.

PCRM recently completed two studies of a vegan diet as treatment for type 2 diabetes on a grant from the Government Employees Insurance Company (GEICO). Study subjects included GEICO office employees in Chevy Chase, Md. and Fredericksburg, Va, plus 10 cities across the US. Results found significant improvement in diabetes and cholesterol, leading to incorporation of plant-based nutrition programs at the Potomac Electric Power Company (PEPCO), Capital One bank, SanDisk, and other companies.

Such study results provide evidence and rationale for allowing other physicians and health care providers to incorporate plant-based programs into private and clinical practice.

I would like to someday see raw vegan practitioners conducting studies that meet these high standards.

Here's one from PCRM's summer newsletter Good Medicine.

"Artery-clogging compounds tend to form in the intestinal tracts of people who eat meat and then pass into their bloodstreams, increasing the risk of heart disease, according to a study from the Cleveland Clinic. Researchers followed 2,595 heart patients and categorized them as omnivores, vegetarians, or vegans, and found that those who consumed the most carnitine, present in animal products, increased their risk for heart disease by producing more artery-clogging metabolites."

Koeth RA, Wang Z, Levison BS, et al. Intestinal microbiota metabolism of L-carnitine, a nutrient in red meat, promotes atherosclerosis. Nat. Med. Published online April 7, 2013.

OMG did anyone see Harleys videos of a meat eating body builders stomach, they opened it up and filled with worms, I mean awhole bowl of them. Besides cancer, you get worms. He said worms only eat meat.

well, raw foods attract the good bacteria and you can visually tell if someting is wrong before eating. Whereas meat bacteria, worms, and other meat pathogens are in the decomposision death cycle and attract the dead flesh bacteria. There are many studies that differentiate between the gut bacteria of vegans and that of meat eaters. They say bacteria is in itself an cooperative organ but you don't want to have a rottening animal inside (takes days to get the remains out). Makes sense.

I beg to differ and I have plenty of info to give you (as long as you can handle dietary truths)

[nutritionfacts.org]

"This is the final video of a three-part series exploring the mechanism behind the spike of inflammation that follows within hours of a meal containing animal products. See The Leaky Gut Theory of Why Animal Products Cause Inflammation and The Exogenous Endotoxin Theory for parts one and two. Though this surge of inflammation can result from bacteria dead or alive, live bacteria can cause other problems—see, for example, MRSA in U.S. Retail Meat, Total Recall, Chicken Out of UTIs, and Toxic Megacolon Superbug. Saturated fat also appears to have other deleterious effects such as increasing the risk of heart disease (Blocking the First Step of Heart Disease) and shortening the lives of breast cancer survivors (Breast Cancer Survival, Butterfat, and Chicken). For more on the patronizing attitude that people can't handle dietary truths, check out my 13-part series on the dietary guidelines from last October that began with Dietary Guidelines: Corporate Guidance. That's just one of many video series. There are hundreds of other videos on more than a thousand topics for you to browse."


[www.nytimes.com]

" Dr. Stanley Hazen of the Cleveland Clinic, who led the study, and his colleagues had accumulated evidence for a surprising new explanation of why red meat may contribute to heart disease. And they were testing it with this early morning experiment.

The researchers had come to believe that what damaged hearts was not just the thick edge of fat on steaks, or the delectable marbling of their tender interiors. In fact, these scientists suspected that saturated fat and cholesterol made only a minor contribution to the increased amount of heart disease seen in red-meat eaters. The real culprit, they proposed, was a little-studied chemical that is burped out by bacteria in the intestines after people eat red meat. It is quickly converted by the liver into yet another little-studied chemical called TMAO that gets into the blood and increases the risk of heart disease. "

It has to do with the myth that cooking 'fixes' the problem. did you see the first vid? it is about dead bacteria (a cooked quater pounder has millions of dead bacteria AND their toxins). So even if you kill the bacteria, the toxin load is so high that creates all type of problems. Now, how do you clean the dead bacteria and its toxins from a lil hamburger? a veggy you can clean it but I've never seen grounded meat being cleaned or washed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2013 03:50PM by Panchito.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used to think some of his videos were ok but now
> i think he is a joke. Far too much assumption
> based on very little evidence.
>

Hey PL, I am trying to help. This is the scientific narration of "animal rottening inside the gut." Vegans can detect it as "meat fart" but people who eat animals think it is normal (depends on culture and adquired smell)

[en.wikipedia.org]

"Most cases of septic shock (approximately 70%) are caused by endotoxin-producing Gram-negative bacilli[citation needed]. Endotoxins are bacterial membrane lipopolysaccharides (LPS) consisting of a toxic fatty acid (lipid A) core common to all Gram-negative bacteria, and a complex polysaccharide coat (including O antigen) unique for each species. Analogous molecules in the walls of Gram-positive bacteria and fungi can also elicit septic shock. Free LPS attaches to a circulating LPS-binding protein, and the complex then binds to a specific receptor (CD14) on monocytes, macrophages, and neutrophils. Engagement of CD14 (even at doses as minute as 10 pg/mL) results in intracellular signaling via an associated "Toll-like receptor" protein 4 (TLR-4), resulting in profound activation of mononuclear cells and production of potent effector cytokines such as IL-1 and TNF-?. These cytokines act on endothelial cells and have a variety of effects including reduced synthesis of anticoagulation factors such as tissue factor pathway inhibitor and thrombomodulin. The effects of the cytokines may be amplified by TLR-4 engagement on endothelial cells. TLR-mediated activation helps to trigger the innate immune system to efficiently eradicate invading microbes. At high levels of LPS, the syndrome of septic shock supervenes; the same cytokine and secondary mediators, now at high levels, result in systemic vasodilation (hypotension), diminished myocardial contractility, widespread endothelial injury and activation, causing systemic leukocyte adhesion and diffuse alveolar capillary damage in the lung activation of the coagulation system, culminating in disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC). The hypoperfusion resulting from the combined effects of widespread vasodilation, myocardial pump failure, and DIC causes multiorgan system failure that affects the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system, among others. Unless the underlying infection (and LPS overload) is rapidly brought under control, the patient usually dies."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:18AM by Prana.

This is a good link to understand meat bacteria (naturally occurs in dead meat)

[en.wikipedia.org]

"Example species

The proteobacteria are a major group of gram-negative bacteria, including Escherichia coli (E. coli), Salmonella, Shigella, and other Enterobacteriaceae, Pseudomonas, Moraxella, Helicobacter, Stenotrophomonas, Bdellovibrio, acetic acid bacteria, Legionella and numerous others. Other notable groups of gram-negative bacteria include the cyanobacteria, spirochaetes, green sulfur and green non-sulfur bacteria.

Medically relevant gram-negative cocci include the three organisms, which cause a sexually transmitted disease (Neisseria gonorrhoeae), a meningitis (Neisseria meningitidis), and respiratory symptoms (Moraxella catarrhalis).

Medically relevant gram-negative bacilli include a multitude of species. Some of them primarily cause respiratory problems (Hemophilus influenzae, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Legionella pneumophila, Pseudomonas aeruginosa), primarily urinary problems (Escherichia coli, Proteus mirabilis, Enterobacter cloacae, Serratia marcescens), and primarily gastrointestinal problems (Helicobacter pylori, Salmonella enteritidis, Salmonella typhi).

Gram-negative bacteria associated with nosocomial infections include Acinetobacter baumannii, which cause bacteremia, secondary meningitis, and ventilator-associated pneumonia in intensive-care units of hospital establishments.

Medical treatment

This section needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (April 2013)

One of the several unique characteristics of gram-negative bacteria is the structure of the outer membrane. The outer leaflet of the membrane comprises a complex lipopolysaccharide whose lipid portion acts as an endotoxin. If endotoxin enters the circulatory system, it causes a toxic reaction, with the sufferer developing a high temperature, high respiration rate, and low blood pressure. This may lead to endotoxic shock, which may be fatal.

This outer membrane protects the bacteria from several antibiotics, dyes, and detergents that would normally damage the inner membrane or cell wall (peptidoglycan). The outer membrane provides these bacteria with resistance to lysozyme and penicillin. However, alternative medicinal treatments such as lysozyme with EDTA and the antibiotic ampicillin have been developed to combat the protective outer membrane of some pathogenic gram-negative organisms. Other drugs can be used, significant ones being chloramphenicol, streptomycin, and nalidixic acid."

Lol if salmonella and other pathogenic bacteria occcured in cooked meat as commonly as you think then people would by dying everywhere daily from food poisoning.

This is ridiculous, the quotes your pasting don't even mention animal foods or any food.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2013 06:28PM by powerlifter.

PL, let me summarize what I am saying:

I think you tried earlier to equal the dangers of veggy bacteria to meat bacteria, to which I did not agreed. Then I showed you a vid (with sources cited) that says that the danger of entoxomia ftrom meat do not only come from living bacteria but from the specific "pooop" of the meat bacteria (toxins). The pooop of veggy bacteria do not cause harm (see the nytimes article) whereas the pooop of the meat bacteria does. So, even if you cook the meat, you still eat their "pooop", which is toxic and which causes inflamation and many other septic problems. I think this is relevant to the discussion since you tried to put the veggy bacteria (good for the body) in the same level of danger as the meat bacteria (bad for the body).

Thats why I mentioned that maybe you were not ready for "dietray truths" All the sudden, your castle falls appart and denial "fixes" it. The articles (scientific) are there. Other people can see them. Now it is only a matter of you wanting to open the eyes to see the truth

I watched this video Cancer gives me the creeps. Its so bad, its so awful. You just rot, and flesh will get rotten and its real for alot of people. Go raw vegan please.

new landmark study about what Powerlifer laughts about (bacteria "poooping"

[nutritionfacts.org]

"A landmark study in the New England Journal of Medicine shows that choline in eggs, poultry, dairy and fish produces the same toxic TMAO as carnitine in red meat, which may help explain plant-based protection from heart disease.

Earlier this year, a research team at the Cleveland Clinic offered another explanation as to why meat intake may be related to mortality (see, for example, Harvard’s Meat and Mortality Studies). They noted that “Numerous studies have suggested a decrease in atherosclerotic disease risk [our number 1 killer] in vegan and vegetarian individuals compared to omnivores,” but reduced intake of dietary cholesterol and saturated fat may not be the full story. The researchers found that within 24 hours of carnitine consumption—eating a sirloin steak, taking a carnitine supplement—certain gut bacteria metabolize the carnitine to a toxic substance called trimethylamine, which then gets oxidized in our liver to TMAO, trimethylamine-n-oxide, which then circulates throughout our bloodstream. There’s a diagram in my 9-min video Carnitine, Choline, Cancer and Cholesterol: The TMAO Connection.

The way we know it’s the gut bacteria is that if you give people antibiotics to wipe out their friendly flora, you can apparently eat all the steak you want without making any TMAO, but then if you wait a couple weeks until your gut bacteria grows back, you’re back to the same problem.

What’s so bad about this TMAO stuff? It appears to increase the buildup of cholesterol in the inflammatory cells in the atherosclerotic plaques in our arteries, increasing our risk of heart attack, stroke, and death. The role of these inflammatory “foam” cells (so-called because they’re so packed with cholesterol they look foamy under a microscope) is explained in my video series that starts with Arterial Acne and Blocking the First Step of Heart Disease.

What does carnitine do? It’s involved in energy production in the mitochondria (“power plants”) in our cells. The enzyme that uses carnitine to help us burn fat, carnitine palmitoyl transferase, is actually upregulated by about 60 percent in those eating meat-free diets, which may help explain why those eating plant-based diets tend to be slimmer. More details in my video How to Upregulate Metabolism.

How do we keep carnitine away from our gut bacteria? Well there’s zero dietary requirement; our body normally makes all that we need. The problem is that the bodies of other animals also make all that they need so when we eat them, their carnitine can end up in our gut for those bacteria to feast upon, resulting in TMAO.

Some animals make more carnitine than others. Carnitine is concentrated in red meat, and so this new body of research has led to recommendations to decrease red meat consumption as well as avoid carnitine-containing supplements and energy drinks.

What most media reports missed, though, is that gut bacteria can turn the choline found in eggs, poultry, fish, dairy, and lecithin supplements into TMAO too. So it’s not just a problem with red meat. The good news is that this may mean a new approach to prevent or treat heart disease: “The most obvious is to limit dietary choline intake.” But if that just means decreasing egg, meat and dairy consumption, the “new” approach sounds just like the old approach.

Unlike carnitine, we do need to take in some choline, so should vegans be worried about the modest amounts of choline they’re getting from beans, veggies, grains, and fruit? And same question with carnitine. There’s a small amount of carnitine found in fruits, veggies, and grains as well. Of course it’s not the carnitine itself we’re worried about, but the toxic TMAO, and you can feed a vegan a steak without getting a TMAO spike. Literally. The researchers convinced a long-time vegan to eat an 8-ounce sirloin, in the name of science. The vegan got the whopping carnitine load, but hardly any TMAO was produced. Apparently, the vegans don’t develop those TMAO-producing bacteria in their gut, and why would they?

It’s like the whole prebiotic story I detail in videos like Boosting Good Bacteria in the Colon Without Probiotics. When we eat a lot of fiber, we select for fiber-munching bacteria, and some of the compounds they make with fiber are beneficial, like the propionate that appears to have an anti-obesity effect I explored in Fawning Over Flora. It seems that if we eat a lot of animal products we may instead be selecting for animal-munching bacteria, and some of those waste products—like the trimethylamine—may be harmful"

the rpevious study I already posted [www.nytimes.com]; said said that. you need to try to read what I post

" That, at least, was the theory. So the question that morning was: Would a burst of TMAO show up in people’s blood after they ate steak? And would the same thing happen to a vegan who had not eaten meat for at least a year and who consumed the same meal?

The answers were: yes, there was a TMAO burst in the five meat eaters; and no, the vegan did not have it. And TMAO levels turned out to predict heart attack risk in humans, the researchers found. The researchers also found that TMAO actually caused heart disease in mice. Additional studies with 23 vegetarians and vegans and 51 meat eaters showed that meat eaters normally had more TMAO in their blood and that they, unlike those who spurned meat, readily made TMAO after swallowing pills with carnitine. "

Sure, the New England Journal of Medicine and the Cliveland Clinic are worthless in comparison to your opinion. But do you have any papers or studies to make such a claim?

eh? that was only one study (red meat). The latest study just posted today here talks about the same effects but from choline (eggs, poultry, dairy and fish).

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eh? that was only one study (red meat). The latest
> study just posted today here talks about the same
> effects but from choline (eggs, poultry, dairy and
> fish).
>
> [yoursmiles.org]

Yes and i can see you completely failed to apply context to that also. That doesn't mean these foods are bad, just once again shouldn't be consumed in excess.

Dietary choline restriction causes a variety of problems, i can cherry pick studies too - [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

you have just synthesize in words the thinking mistake that animal eaters do. They have a bias to only see the "good" by for example just focusing on the protein (which is a myth btw). What these studies show is the negative stuff that cannot be washed away or hidden by cool ideas. IT PILES UP jeje. People die from the negative effects not the positive ones. Go to a hospital and look around. It is the #1 killer. Think of all the lives that can be saved (and those of the other animals too). Think of all the death caused by money and ego



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 01:47PM by Panchito.

I would have hoped that you would stay on topic or try to refute with arguments the studies you laught about. Instead, you try to introduce relativity (endless list of other factors), cultural eating philosophies, or simply jump to the 30bananasaday think mode.

Not sure why growing bananas would kill so many animals (from above). I've grown bananas for many years, and they help support the lives of many animals besides me - nearly all of them not human.

Here's a partial list: centipedes, rats, wild pigs, mongooses, fruit flies, wasps, earthworms, my husband, me.

I guess when someone is spraying everything with poison, that's different. But banana plants don't require clearing fields or replanting, or any insecticides, herbicides, etc.

To produce more bananas or any plant food then some natural ground has to be uprooted to provide space for these plantations surely, as a result of commercial farming thousands of insects and small animals such as mice are likely killed in the process.

Maybe someone like HH who is knowledgeable in this area can set us straight. I come from a history of farmers and was always told about the death of many small animals as a result of farming.

"He cites Australian statistics that suggest producing wheat and other grains kills at least 25 times more sentient animals per kilogram of useable protein."

This article seems to agree - [www.care2.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 08:10PM by powerlifter.

to eat animals, you need the ground for the plants + the ground of the animals (double). Plus farming animals generates lots of pollution and obviously death from the other animals. If aliens come in, they'll have a pocket detector to smell the bacteria and tell if you were an animal eater



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 09:17PM by Panchito.