Hi. I've been eating about 90% raw vegan (working towards 98%) for like the last 4 months. 95% of which is NOT organic. Can anyone please reply with how much of the health benefits I could expect on this raw vegan non-organic diet. I realize this is an impossible question, but any insight or personal experiences are appreciated. THANKS

HI Kollie,

I joined a co-op so that I can have access to organic foods that are reasonably priced. That being said, there are some that are not unhealthy to eat non-organic. The fruits with thick peels should be ok. whatever, just be sure to wash the food really good.

Some say organic is more nutricious, others don't make a big deal over it. It won't do anyone any good to pay for organic & not be able to pay their bills. The added stress will negate the benefits. That's just my opinion though. I'm not 100% raw OR 100% vegan but I try to eat healthy as much as possible.

Joe

Love is patient, love is kind, it is not self-seeking, love ALWAYS protects,always endures. (1corinthians 13)

God IS love!! (1john4)
Jesus Christ...... The ONLY way to Heaven.
I am the Way, the Truth & the Life..(John 14:6)

The way I see it...a raw foods diet using non-organics is still better than a cooked foods diet. I've read that a lot on this and other raw foods forums. My suggestion is to google the "pesticide dirty dozen" and be sure to get those organic when you can, they have the highest pesticide residue

____________________________________
~Christina~
aka Chrilynhawk or SheThrowsDown

In addition to the added health benefits for ourselves, growing organic is better for the planet.

In my experience it's essential that the nuts and seeds we eat are organic. I've been doubled over in pain a few times after mistakenly eating nonorganic nuts and seeds. Once it happened after buying sunflower seeds from a bin labeled "organic". I recognized the pain and asked for a check on the bin contents. The employee found that organic seeds had not been available when ordering, so nonorganic seeds were put into the bin, and they'd forgotten to remove the "organic" label.

After a few very painful incidents - always from nonorganic nuts and seeds, I began to wonder about the health effects from eating chemically poisoned fruits and vegetables as well. What about the "hidden" effects to our bodies that we can't immediately feel?

And what about the life of our soils that are continually depleted and poisoned, our groundwater that ultimately receives these poisons, our oceans that our groundwater drains into, and all the critters of the planet that are innocently exposed so that a few people can make a lot of money?

RRRRRRRGGGG!!!

What kind of planet will we leave to our children, our grandchildren and all the progeny of all the other critters? This has to stop somewhere, sometime, before we disrupt the entire ecology of the planet. If raw food vegans don't stop it, if WE don't stop it, then who will?

My feeling is that if we absolutely have to buy nonorganic so that we can have enough to eat, well, we have to do what we have to do! No shame.

But, whenever we can possibly afford organic foods, even if that means giving up something else (that we might not really need), it's much better to buy organic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2009 06:41PM by suncloud.

Forgot to mention that it's important to understand that nonorganic produce is exposed to more than just poisonous pesticide sprays.

Nonorganic produce is exposed to chemical herbicides (especially from tropical climates where weeds are abundant), petrochemical fertilizers, chemical washes, and sometimes even rodent poison as well. These chemicals are absorbed by the plant. Exposure to poisonous chemicals affects the health and vitality of plants, and the health and vitality of the plants' offspring: the fruits and their seeds.

More RRRRRGGGG!

Studies in the US and UK have found that organic produce contains more essential nutrients. That's important for having our bodies feel satisfied on a raw food diet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2009 07:10PM by suncloud.

I agree with suncloud. If it's a matter of expense, then perhaps it cannot be helped. But when I consider the volumes of fresh produce eaten by a raw foodist, and how those pesticide residue ratios are not reckoned against extra-large servings of nonorganic produce, it really makes me cringe to think I could be poisoning myself if I opt out of organic produce. Also, and I'm sure I've stated this on other threads long ago, conventional produce seeds are frequently incubated in petrochemical insecticides and herbicides in order to build up tolerance. Sometimes, the seed is bred with the agent in the genetic matrix, even. There is no way to wash this off. It is not commonly known that these are the standards of operation for suppliers of nonorganic seeds, but it is commonly practiced.

Organic doesn't mean safe, doesn't mean clean, doesn't mean fresh. If produce isn't treated chemically, there is a higher level of natural pests & their products. If the organic equivalent doesn't look reasonably close and isn't reasonably priced to it's conventional equivalent, don't buy it. If people think you will buy substandard organic produce, they will charge you for it and make the rest of us pay with you. Shop farmer's markets. Don't demonize conventionally grown environmentally friendly produce (think IPM). Organic is important if it's fresh and healthy. Much of the organic produce I look at isn't. And I won't serve it to my son.

pborst,

I agree with you that bad/old organic produce is not healthy to consume and a financial waste. However I haven't had any truly bad experiences with organic; your post suggests you have had. I don't believe there's a conspiracy by organic farmers to foist unwholesome produce on us! That's bad for business!

Also, IPM is slightly less toxic than conventional produce, according to studies, but is by no means "environmentally friendly." That's like saying there is such a thing as "clean coal." IPM is designed to reduce the net cost of pesticides incurred by the farmer. Is not intended to help the land. It is true that in some instances, individual farmers are using IPM as a transitional measure before going organic or biodynamic, or in tandem with organic or biodynamic methods. IMO, these farmers should be commended for their efforts and sought out at farmers markets, along with organic producers.

Tamukha,

Yes, I've had some bad experiences with organic food. And some good ones as well. My philosophy on organic food generally is that given the lack of data linking human exposure to pesticide residues to cancer and other conditions, my default is to buy conventional for everything except the "dirty dozen", e.g. I never serve conventionally raised strawberries in my family.

And I admit, since I read the Quackwatch article on organic foods [www.quackwatch.com]
I haven't been as enthusiatic about them. That said, I don't believe everything I read from QW at face value. I suspect my desire for organic foods, those that I buy, stems more from the environmental benefit that the health benefit. I think that the weight of evidence is stronger for the former than the latter. At least looking at some of David Pimentels' work from Cornell. I will pay more for organic than conventional, just not Whole Paycheck...er Whole Food prices. Peace.

Paul

Paul,

Once again, farmers maaaaaarkeeeeeets : ) Or local indie health food grocers. If my only resource for organic produce were Whole Foods, I don't know what I'd do. I am lucky to live in the Midwest, though, where we have varied microclimates and lots of water for irrigation, so there's always a choice. If I lived somewhere like the Southwest, gosh, I don't know. I'd probably move.

I use my local organic man as well as ordering some non organic food. I have to buy what I can afford. Perspective, affording roof over my head, shoes on my feet and paying my taxes..priority also, avoiding getting chucked in prison!! LOL

I use the dirty dozen list for reference

eitherway its better than a SAD diet!!

I'm with Suncloud on this one. There are many ways to get organic food at a reasonable price: joining a co-op and doing member worker hours often allows great discounts. Getting a part time job at one and taking advantage of the culled items. Definitely frequenting farmers' markets. Working on a farm. Farming or growing a garden. It's amazing how much you can grow even in a couple of whiskey barrels, if you take a little time to learn intensive gardening. Getting a community garden plot. Starting a community garden. Offering to put in a garden to share for a neighbor who has space, if you don't. Foraging for wild edibles (get a library book or do a workshop so you don't poison yourself). Bartering with a farmer.

Our planet is dying, folks. Cancer is rampant. I only buy clothes at thrift stores, I walk when I can, my cars are old and my house is a fixer upper in a not so great neighborhood. I rarely pay to do social things. I make these choices so I can afford to only eat organic food. If it is truly a priority, it can happen, whether it is eating only organic or anything else. Conventional raw is better than SAD, but why not take that extra step, if at all possible, for the future of the planet and our kids? As a kid in the 60's and early 70's I remember questioning to myself: Why are grown ups poisoning our world and destroying it? don't they care about us kids who have no say and no control? How much more are the kids of today asking these questions? I remember walking through the park and watching horrified as dead birds fall, dead due to pesticide use. Kids put so much more of the big picture together than we give them credit for. And if you do not have kids, don't think that there aren't some kids, somewhere, watching your life, looking for an example of what is truly right in this life. I really feel like kids take the choices that the adults around them make personally. And they see. They haven't yet let circumstances warp their view of what is really important.

Sorry about the long-windedness. I really feel that organics go far beyond whether the pesticides you consume harm your body. Our earth is at a tipping point. Conventional farming, especially big farming, is incredibly destructive to the environment. I lived for many years in the Sacramento Valley where the air quality is horrendous and industrial farming is everywhere. Now I live where most of the farms are organic, and guess what? I can breathe!

While I'm on this roll here, we need to think about how local our food is. If it traveled 3000 miles, it used a lot of fossil fuels to get to our tables. Local, seasonal, minimally pesticided food probably makes more sense than something organic shipped from Peru to New England. So we need to look at the big picture. But 99% of the time, to me, organic makes the most sense.

Amen, Sundancer, Amen! Beautifully put.