Is it possible to "overdose" on greens? Just hypothetically, say if a person were to consume like 50 cups of greens a day (varied sources of course), could they become toxic? I did a google search for this and it didn't turn anything up... I'm not really seriously thinking about doing that, but just hypothetically, since I do a bit of body-building and I've been reading about how the protein in greens is more usable to the body then flesh protein, I just started wondering, what if someone began juicing, or blending, dozens of cups of greens a day, what would happen? Sorry if this is a stupid post lol, but I get really curious about things!

peace.

You could if you juiced them. But who knows, perhaps it is possible by eating them.

There is enough proteins in fruits and vegetables to build muscles without eating more food than you need to meet your energy requirements.

..I suppose someone could juice 500 cups of greens and drink 3 gallons of juice in one day and there would be consequences.

-- 1 cup (30g) of spinach (to keep it simple) has 7 calories, 1 gram of protein and 1 gram of fiber.

-- 50 cups (1500g) of spinach juiced (say netting 750g of juice?) in a day is doable though it might take a while to get used to it (and the oxalic acid might bother you).

-- 50 cups of spinach chewed or blending would provide 100% of the "Daily Value" (DV) of protein and 150% of the DV of fiber, both within reason.

[www.nutritiondata.com]

Edit: You should increase dietary fiber slowly. Too much can cause gas and bloat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2009 12:01PM by loeve.

evolve,

As Bryan says, all raw foods have bioavailable protein, that is aminos. And most raw aminos are efficiently used to fabricate whatever your body needs from them. It's not like with cooked proteins, where there's a ton of waste from denaturization, and subsequent hardship on the liver and kidneys because the body doesn't have a mechanism for storing excess protein as it does sugar. It's a more streamlined chemical process with raw aminos.

Think of a great ape. He weighs a few hundred pounds, and may eat 30-40 pounds of vegetation in a day. That's a fraction of his weight. And is more than half fruit, by the way. He may eat a few insects here and there, but their protein contribution is small. Yet, he is massively huge and could tear my head off with a flick of the wrist, right?

As you already know, you build muscle by moving, not by toploading protein. The only way that this process doesn't work is if you are at a severe deficit of protein. If you are eating lots of produce, that's not gonna happen.

Why do we always point to the apes? And why do we conveniently pick and choose from their lifestyle the parts that would back our points?

Point to some raw fooders who eat a fraction of their weight in vegetation and is massively huge!
There is none! There are some who are ripped but none who are huge.

Evolve, if getting big is your main goal, stay on cooked food.

Raw foods are for getting you health beyond your wildest imagination. And for getting a beautiful, ripped physique if you work out regularly.

ps. anyone who uses the apes as examples should be made to live exactly, in all aspects, like them.

It is a fair comparison to bring up our primate relatives and how they live in the wild and relate to plants; people should be free to do so and live as they will.

I think it is really unnecessary to consume dozens of cups of greens a day, and your body would probably protest on those grounds. Some people have also found that overdoing blended greens can be too much for the human appendix, so I would watch that.

brian1cs,

Why do we always point to the apes?

Because our assimilation and metabolization of nutrients is more like that of apes than like that of other species. Duh.

Now, suggesting that anyone making this logical analogy must go off and live like an ape, well, that's just impolite.

haha, thanks for the feedback/discussion everyone. As I said in my OP, I am NOT seriously considering consuming that amount of greens, it truly was just a sort of intellectual curiosity. I tend to be an excessively curious person at times, sometimes to me own detriment, and learning about nutrition and health is my biggest past time extracurricular study, so when I found this raw food thing about a week ago I went nuts because it is challenging so much of my more conventional thinking (although I already tend to think a bit outside the box!). Anyways, thanks for the feedback.

peace.

Slight change of subject, but still relevant since we're discussing juicing/blending large amounts of foods: Do you take in a lot of calories through smoothies? I ask because I am finding that the most difficult thing for me to do with this diet is simply getting enough kcals in. I'm just not used to eating this volume of food, and all the fiber fills me up really quickly, so I've been making lots of fruit smoothies (and green smoothies) to be able to concentrate the calories. Any feedback on this? I know people say that a mistake new raw foodies make in transition is to eat too many fatty foods to make up for caloric deficit, and I have been eating a couple avocados every night with my big dinner salad. How do you get around this? I'm very active, need to consume like 3-4,000 kcals/day typically.

Overeating is always toxic regardless of what it is.

Simple Raw Recipes & Health Tips

evolve

Quote

Do you take in a lot of calories through smoothies?

I don't make many smoothies anymore. Most of my food is eaten as whole food with just a knife & cutting board used in preparation.

Quote

I have been eating a couple avocados every night with my big dinner salad.

I wouldn't be concerned about the avocado because it is a "good" fat. I was eating a couple or more a day and still lost weight consistently over time and then an interesting thing happened - I lost my craving for them. Now I eat about one a day. That change happened naturally by itself as my body has continued to adjust to the raw food lifestyle. Just keep listening to your inner coach and you'll be on the right path for you.

Thanks, EZ rider!

Tamukha, since "our assimilation and metabolization of nutrients is more like that of apes than like that of other species" and the ape eats " a fraction of his weight"(in fruits and veg)and "he is massively huge" then how come humans don't get big by eating like them?

That's the point you're implying anyway.

As I said before -show me raw fooders who eat a fraction of their weight in vegetation and is massively huge! The proof is in the pudding!

There is no comparison between the apes and man. Nothing that works for them will, as a rule, work for us.
This bears repeating-There is no comparison between the apes and man. Nothing that works for them will, as a rule, work for us.
The only thing massive you're going to get is dissapointment if you believe otherwise.

How about you Tamukha?
I don't want to hear fancy words and nice sounding theories. Speak from experience! Are you bigger in size on raw foods?(lol..that sounds x rated)

How about you Wild Aloe? Have you experienced astounding physical growth on a fruit/veg diet? Since you say the comparison is valid.

The biggest(in size) raw fooder who eats an all raw fruit/veg diet is puny in comparison to cooked food bodybuilders.
Let's not kid ourselves here and lie to other people.

Let's not regurgitate what we read to budding raw foodists because it sounds nice. They'll find out we are lying soon anyway. Show by example and experience.

To all new raw foodists- when you get advice, ask how long the person has been doing raw and in what percentage, is the person speaking from experience or regurgitating what they read someplace?
Many of the people giving advice are themselves struggling on raw!

To Evolve and other new raw fooders who are into bodybuilding, here's my experience with raw foods and bodybuilding.
Time is running out on me. I have to get ready to go to work so I'm going to condense this.

I've been doing 100% raw diet(near 80/10/10 except I don't eat as much veggies, for the past year or so) for 2 years and 7 mths.
I went from a cooked food 190llbs big/muscular to a 160 llbs ripped/muscular. I am 6' tall. I am now 46 yrs so I was about 43 when I started raw( for the second time btw).

I lost mass on raw. I am definitely not as big as I was when I was on cooked. And the loss of size initially left me dissatisfied with raw since throughout my life I was into working out and being big.
However, after a while I started experiencing a change in my thinking. I found that I didn't need to workout as much to stay in shape.

I got six pack abs which was always difficult for me on cooked foods.
I developed nice, long, lean muscles.
I found I could exercize every day if I wanted and still recover fully for the next day.

I found that I only had to do the basic exercizes for each muscles group to maintain them. No more doing 2-3 different exercizes for the same muscle group.
I found I go without exercizing for long periods and still be in shape(no doubt high fruit, low fat raw was responsible for this). Couldn't do this on cooked foods. Would start to put on flab.

On top of this my health went up like those game machines(whatever they are)that you pound with a hammer at fairs and carnivals.
All in all I'm am very satisfied with raw.

Evolve, maybe you or some other raw fooder will find a way to get big on fruits/veg but don't start out on the premise that because apes, or elephants or horses eat vegetation and are big that you'll be the same.

Here's an important question you should be asking- What about DETOX? What should I expect? What are other people's experiences? how did they cope? what can I do to lessen the symptoms.
Because, most likely you're going to run into this and if you have hardly any clue of what you're going to be up against it can be a confusing and overwhelming time for you. Time doesn't permit me to go into this now.

Lastly, you want a good idea how raw fooders look like- go to a raw food festival and see for yourself.

I think I have written enough for the next 3 months, lol! And I'm going to be late for work, lol! So I'm out . Won't be replying to this anymore. take care all.

honestly ive never seen anyone say here that if you eat lots of raw foods you will get big like an elephant (or ape or bear or otherwise) lol

what i have seen is people tell people that large animals meet their protein/energy needs without eating cooked foods/meat etc.

i think there is definite difference there how you interpret what people say

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

The comparison with non human primates is interesting and shows to me the quantity of greens that are consumed in the wild, and the wide variations within the 'gorila' family. For instance the Mountain Gorilla eats predominantly vegetation with about 1% fruit..

"Mountain gorilla
Pith, shoots, leaves and stems of herbs and shrubs 91% (range 85-96%); wood or bark 2% (0-7%) roots 1% (0-4%); flowers 2% (0-3%); fruit 1% (0-2%); dung 0.5% (0-2%); prey 1% (0-1%); fungus and miscellaneous 2% (0-5%)

[books.nap.edu]

..how toxic can greens be when our relatives in the wild eat so many?

Thanks, Jgunn, for interpreting my brainforms in the correct way : )

brian1cs,

Sorry if what I wrote touched a nerve. I will preface this by saying I'm a chick who appreciates the natural human form, and has no interests in beefing herself up: imo, the typical[cooked] bodybuilder looks like he's carrying alot of water, visceral fat, and dead tissue mass, all of which add visual bulk. And that raw bodybuilders, like our old friend Richard Blackman, and you possibly, look big in a taut, sinewy, natural way. It may be a matter of semantics, but when I say a gorilla is "huge," what I mean is that it is large in a natural, rather than 'roidy way. It has bulked up on vegetation and movement; which I maybe didn't stress enough, because I assumed evolve already knows that laborous movement enlarges muscle.

I myself have complained in the past about the overuse of the analogy to apes' diets, should we eat insects or our own scat, etc., but I thought it fair to apply the analogy here. Now, if you thought I was implying that a human could get as huge as a gorilla on a vegetation-based diet, well, uh, no. Good lord, who would want that, anyhow? But that is not what I was expressing, and I don't think I implied it in any way, either. What I meant was that evolve won't get all scrawny and feeble-looking if he doesn't eat his weight in greens. I promise it will be this succinct and unmistakable next time, OK?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 03:39PM by Tamukha.

hehe np Tam

i wanted to add brian that your story is awesome thanks for sharing, you sound like you are reaching great milestones in your health

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

brian1cs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about you Wild Aloe? Have you experienced
> astounding physical growth on a fruit/veg diet?
> Since you say the comparison is valid.

I'm not interested in, don't want or care about "astounding physical growth"; I'm an adult, and I'm done growing, thank you very much. I didn't say anything in my post about body building, which in my opinion is unhealthy in itself. But I don't even believe in comparing humans to other humans; so my point is still that it is interesting to study how other primates relate to plant foods, sometimes.