Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OH, yeah, I'm keeping on eating this way. You
> bet! Grains are acid-forming and
> non-whole-foods, as they are cooked and/or
> dehydrated. Legumes are acid-forming as well.
>

To each their own, my grains and legumes are mostly sprouted and not dehydrated, nor cooked. They are whole foods and when balanced with an adequate amount of nuts and seeds provide enough calories that I don't have to overconsume on fruit.

> All fruits have the perfect ratio of fatty acids,
> so I don't have the imbalance that you might have
> of omega 3s to 6s or vice versa. I don't have to
> worry about things like that.

Most fruits have very little essential fatty acids, bananas have almost none.

"Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated g 0.086
18:2 undifferentiated g 0.054
18:3 undifferentiated g 0.032
18:4 g 0.000
20:4 undifferentiated g 0.000
20:5 n-3 g 0.000
22:5 n-3 g 0.000
22:6 n-3 g 0.000"

From the USDA site.

>
> Tomatoes, cucumbers, spinach, melons, celery all
> have sodium. Perfectly fit for humans.
> Unlike sea vegetables. We are land animals.

Agreed you don't have to eat sea vegetables, your loss. Great sources of nutrients and cancer fighters. If you are eating the vegetable you mention, you are ok for sodium.

>
> I typically get about 60-65 g. of protein a day,
> and this is mostly absorbed, unlike a person who
> eats an acid-forming, inflammation-producing, and
> calcium-depleting diet. That's 20 or so more
> grams than I need. Besides, our bodies need amino
> acids, not PROTEIN.

I will run a couple of your diet plans to see if that protein level is close. I'm less concerned about your macronutrient intake than your electrolyte balance and your AGE formation over time. Be well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 08:37PM by pborst.

I've calculated my protein and other nutrients using fitday, but thank you. The numbers do add up. I didn't pull them out of my clean ass (low fat high fruit gives you excellent @#$%&).

By the way, I am not at a loss for NOT eating foods that are sub-optimal. I can't believe you think sea vegetables and grains and legumes are not dehydrated. Really? So how you get your grains and legumes and sea veg is how they were obtained from the sea and the ground? Interesting.....might want to look into that. Dehydrated foods are not whole; they are missing the water content.

You don't seem to know much about the protein content of food. You calculated 5 g. from the fruit and seemed to focus on the spinach? Wow. Please go look these things up.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've calculated my protein and other nutrients
> using fitday, but thank you. The numbers do add
> up. I didn't pull them out of my clean ass (low
> fat high fruit gives you excellent @#$%&).
>
> By the way, I am not at a loss for NOT eating
> foods that are sub-optimal. I can't believe you
> think sea vegetables and grains and legumes are
> not dehydrated. Really? So how you get your
> grains and legumes and sea veg is how they were
> obtained from the sea and the ground?
> Interesting.....might want to look into that.
> Dehydrated foods are not whole; they are missing
> the water content.


The lentils are dry and sprouted, the wakame is reconstituted. whole foods.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't seem to know much about the protein
> content of food. You calculated 5 g. from the
> fruit and seemed to focus on the spinach? Wow.
> Please go look these things up.


I'm not sure what you are focuing on. 10 cups of raw spinach is about 9 grams of protein. Looked it up before I posted. Thanks anyway.

Lest this misinformation is passed along and someone believes the (lack of) protein levels that Pborst said, I put this one into Fitday as an example:

>16 bananas
> 2 c. strawberries
> 8 c. blueberries
> 5 c. cherries
> 4 c. cherry tomatoes
> 6 c. romaine
> 6 c. chard

NOT counting the cherry tomatoes, romaine, and chard, so just using the sweet fruit, I already had 36.4 g. of protein, which is enough for the average female.

Adding the other three items, the total for the day was 49. Usually I have at least 8 more bananas than that, which would add 10 more grams of protein. Or what lay people and charts call "protein," which I don't necessarily ascribe to the charts but I realize they are helpful for the simple, non-holistic, typical American viewpoint/mind on diet.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utopian Life Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've calculated my protein and other nutrients
> > using fitday, but thank you. The numbers do
> add
> > up. I didn't pull them out of my clean ass
> (low
> > fat high fruit gives you excellent @#$%&).
> >
> > By the way, I am not at a loss for NOT eating
> > foods that are sub-optimal. I can't believe
> you
> > think sea vegetables and grains and legumes are
> > not dehydrated. Really? So how you get your
> > grains and legumes and sea veg is how they were
> > obtained from the sea and the ground?
> > Interesting.....might want to look into that.
>
> > Dehydrated foods are not whole; they are
> missing
> > the water content.
>
>
> The lentils are dry and sprouted, the wakame is
> reconstituted. whole foods.


No, sorry, dried foods are not whole foods.

yeesh and geeze enough with the personal digs .. cant we all have a discussion without calling names and assuming or questioning one and anothers intelligence?

=) come on folks were all better then that =)

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utopian Life Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You don't seem to know much about the protein
> > content of food. You calculated 5 g. from the
> > fruit and seemed to focus on the spinach? Wow.
>
> > Please go look these things up.
>
>
> I'm not sure what you are focuing on. 10 cups of
> raw spinach is about 9 grams of protein. Looked
> it up before I posted. Thanks anyway.

I did not disagree on the spinach. You said 5 g. from the fruit. I showed one day where I got 36 g. of protein from fruit. And that was a low banana day for me. It's usually more. Please check your facts.

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeesh and geeze enough with the personal digs ..
> cant we all have a discussion without calling
> names and assuming or questioning one and
> anothers intelligence?
>
> =) come on folks were all better then that =)


I notice a little defensiveness, but I'm just trying to put info out there, because next thing you know, someone is going to get all paranoid about protein, and it's unwarranted. Correct information needs to be put out there.

utopian , i tried to send you a message about fitday to your private .. can you clear it so i can

your box is full !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lest this misinformation is passed along and
> someone believes the (lack of) protein levels that
> Pborst said, I put this one into Fitday as an
> example:
>
> >16 bananas
> > 2 c. strawberries
> > 8 c. blueberries
> > 5 c. cherries
> > 4 c. cherry tomatoes
> > 6 c. romaine
> > 6 c. chard
>
> NOT counting the cherry tomatoes, romaine, and
> chard, so just using the sweet fruit, I already
> had 36.4 g. of protein, which is enough for the
> average female.
>
> Adding the other three items, the total for the
> day was 49. Usually I have at least 8 more
> bananas than that, which would add 10 more grams
> of protein. Or what lay people and charts call
> "protein," which I don't necessarily ascribe to
> the charts but I realize they are helpful for the
> simple, non-holistic, typical American
> viewpoint/mind on diet.

Except for the bananas and some variety in the diet, it looks great. Imbalanced electrolytes and excessive AGE formation resulting from overfructose consumption remain real concerns to such a diet in my view. YMMV

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pborst Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Utopian Life Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I've calculated my protein and other
> nutrients
> > > using fitday, but thank you. The numbers do
> > add
> > > up. I didn't pull them out of my clean ass
> > (low
> > > fat high fruit gives you excellent @#$%&).
>
> > >
> > > By the way, I am not at a loss for NOT eating
> > > foods that are sub-optimal. I can't believe
> > you
> > > think sea vegetables and grains and legumes
> are
> > > not dehydrated. Really? So how you get your
> > > grains and legumes and sea veg is how they
> were
> > > obtained from the sea and the ground?
> > > Interesting.....might want to look into that.
>
> >
> > > Dehydrated foods are not whole; they are
> > missing
> > > the water content.
> >
> >
> > The lentils are dry and sprouted, the wakame is
> > reconstituted. whole foods.
>
>
> No, sorry, dried foods are not whole foods.


sure they are.

I understand and appreciate your concern. I didn't really post my diet to get your approval - I definitely don't need anyone's approval - I was more showing you how it's possible to eat enough greens and non-sweet fruit on a low-fat high-fruit diet.

I'm not the least bit imbalanced. Eat enough fruit and low enough fat, and you're good to go. Fat causes problems, not fruit.

I'll check my inbox, Jgunn! Sorry about that. I never get messages on here.

We'll agree to disagree on what constitutes an intact/whole food, Pborst.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand and appreciate your concern. I
> didn't really post my diet to get your approval -
> I definitely don't need anyone's approval - I was
> more showing you how it's possible to eat enough
> greens and non-sweet fruit on a low-fat high-fruit
> diet.
>
> I'm not the least bit imbalanced. Eat enough
> fruit and low enough fat, and you're good to go.
> Fat causes problems, not fruit.


You don't need my approval or anyone else's. For the record, I wasn't offering my approval, only my insight. Anyway, you seem more interested in justifying your own predisposition for what you are already doing rather than being open to new information. It's your life. Proceed at your own risk.

You're not telling me new information, that I can see. Otherwise, I'd be open to it.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're not telling me new information, that I can
> see. Otherwise, I'd be open to it.

that's fine. If you were already aware of AGE formation and electrolyte imbalance as well as better alternatives with sprouted legumes and grains and you'd made a decision you wanted to go ahead anyway, then by all means. I do not believe that for a second.

If you looked at my diet a year ago, I was raw with sprouts, lots of sprouts. I've been there, done that. Know what feels better for me and most other athletes.

I don't agree that these are "better alternatives," FYI, so your phraseology is hard to respond to for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 09:15PM by Utopian Life.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you looked at my diet a year ago, I was raw
> with sprouts, lots of sprouts. I've been there,
> done that. Know what feels better for me and most
> other athletes.
>
> I don't agree that these are "better
> alternatives," FYI, so your phraseology is hard to
> respond to for me.

It starts with real risk of electrolyte imbalance and extra fructose consumption, not just sprouts. They are just more protective of cancer which you don't have now, thankfully. And I hope you never get. But make no mistake there is an opportunity cost to discounting vegetables in favor of fruits. Pay it if you must.

Who said I was discounting vegetables in favor of fruits? I probably eat 50-60 servings of fruits and vegetables a day. If low-fat, high-fruit raw people focus on fruit more, it's for the calories and the fuel. I don't think anyone argues that vegetables are great sources of nutrition. Where did you get that from? Was it somethign I said?

Today I had so far 24 bananas, 4 c. spinach, 2 c. kale (plus I juiced the stalks), 3 c. tomatoes (local). I will have something else later, not sure what.



Add to that - in the past 2 hours, I have had 5 more c. kale (with juiced stems as well) and 6 more bananas.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who said I was discounting vegetables in favor of
> fruits? I probably eat 50-60 servings of fruits
> and vegetables a day. If low-fat, high-fruit raw
> people focus on fruit more, it's for the calories
> and the fuel. I don't think anyone argues that
> vegetables are great sources of nutrition. Where
> did you get that from? Was it somethign I said?

I guess I didn't see any vegetable sprouts in your meal plans along with legume and grain sprouts. I think though that the it's your balance between fruits and vegetables which appears heavily weight toward fruits an excluding major food groups such as nuts, seeds, along legumes and sprouted grains that concerns me. I will worry about where your Omega 3s come from, not just your electrolytes and AGE formation. This appears to be an "if it feels right, do it" as opposed to paying attention to how you feel and looking at research forum. With that in mind, I'm not getting through to you. Chacun a son gout.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 09:38PM by pborst.

I don't consider inferior things such as nuts, seeds, legumes, and sprouted grains to be "major food groups." In fact, due to their negative effects on the body (that fruits and vegetables don't have), I consider them a non-food item that should be eaten for pleasure only.

I get plenty of good fats from fruit.

I don't know what "chacun a son gout" means.

I have done plenty of research and reading, apparently more than you realize.

Pborst wrote, "I'm glad you are healthy. I hope you stay that way. Time will tell.
With respect to what I write, here's an idea. You write what you like and I will write what I like. When I want to relay my personal experiences, I will do so. Fair."


Remember my friend that time will tell with your diet too. So lets not get too patronizing here.
I care zilch about the studies you posted and since you don't want to discuss your experiences I have nothing more to say on this topic.

I think Pborst's writing style is that way. I find it a little patronizing as well, but I won't assume that it's on purpose yet.....and maybe people think the same thing of me. I don't know. :L/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 09:37PM by Utopian Life.

brian1cs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pborst wrote, "I'm glad you are healthy. I hope
> you stay that way. Time will tell.
> With respect to what I write, here's an idea. You
> write what you like and I will write what I like.
> When I want to relay my personal experiences, I
> will do so. Fair."
>
>
> Remember my friend that time will tell with your
> diet too. So lets not get too patronizing here.
> I care zilch about the studies you posted and
> since you don't want to discuss your experiences I
> have nothing more to say on this topic.


Fine with me. Go tell someone else what to write.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Pborst's writing style is that way. I
> find it a little patronizing as well, but I won't
> assume that it's on purpose yet.....and maybe
> people think the same thing of me. I don't know.
> :L/


hello pot, meet kettle. The difference with your posts, I think, is that I value the specifics and insight notwithstanding what I perceive to be your unwillingness to reciprocate. It wouldn't occur to me to make a personal attack on you but a response to one is ok. We've discussed our differences to death. Bananas aren't vegetables. If you feel great eating 25, eat 25. Just be aware of issues related that. It's all I've ever said in this thread.

OK, there's been enough debate. I am closing this thread, as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.