It seems that a large number of posters on this forum appear to either follow Dr. Graham's 80-10-10 diet or a similar fruit-predominant raw vegan diet. I was wondering if some of you would be willing to share what changes/benefits you are realizing from this diet as well as what challenges you have encountered, if any. And how you managed them. Thank you in advance for sharing.

Kref

Lower fat raw for me equals more energy, better digestion, better skin, hair, etc. Probably taste better, too, since I eat sweet fruit more.

The high fruit/low fat diet allows me to get into high gear for cleansing and healing.

Don't follow any diet. Diets are inherently restrictive. Just try to eat all fruit or nearly all fruit.

It's not "Dr Graham's" diet, it's the diet that's natural. Nobody owns a diet or can call it their diet.

You can consider his analysis of diet if you want, incorperate it into your own. When you start doing something "because Dr.Graham/the book told me to", then you're doing it wrong.

Superinfinity, I like you because you dare to be a little different and say what you think!

Of course, I like a lot of people here, and for a lot of reasons!

I will now disagree with one of your above statements, Superinfinity (sorry). I don't agree that a person can eat all fruit - on a long term basis and be healthy. That's my personal belief, based on my own personal experience and observation. If others disagree, based on their own personal experience and observation, that's fine with me. So be it.

If others disagree, based on what they've read in books or on the internet, and/or experienced on a short-term basis, well then, again, so be it.

On to 80-10-10: The viability of a raw food vegan diet containing 10% or less "fats" from nuts and seeds and/or other raw vegan foods has not been verified by sample or population studies. It's only a theory, and personally, as a long-term, consistent dietary regimen, it doesn't work well for me.

I find that - for myself - a raw food diet averaging to a somewhat higher fat content is optimal. I average between 15% and 20%. That enables me to obtain essential nutrients from nuts/seeds (in addition to the fats), like iron and zinc, and I believe that helps me stay raw and perform at the activity level that makes me feel best.

[mid-day.com]

20 years is pretty long term.

Heres 16 years of fruit...

[mangodurian.blogspot.com]

Anyway..

I eat low fat raw vegan about 90% now with some cooked foods here and there, but when I haven't had any cooked foods (lets say for 5-9 days) my mental happiness is overwhelming, nothing can get me down! It's such a wonderful and empowering feeling. Wish you the best luck on your journey

nomnomnomnom...!

Roadrunner, the fact that one solitary individual has lasted 20 years on a particular " diet " is meaningless for everyone else. All it proves is that it has worked for him. If he had a 100% success rate on his diet with everyone, that would equate to something.
Having been around the scene for a long time, i have realised that just because someone wrote a book saying how great he feels on his particular diet, doesn't give credence for it to be the best diet.

Yea Peter but people diss the fruit diet saying there arent enough minerals and vitamins yadda yadda, well I did it for 2 years and was on top of the world.
This last christmas I got off of it and back to the SAD diet which now puts me @ 9 months back on SAD. Ive since then gained back 50 lbs and Im tired all the time.
Our bodies and brain work best on fructose and glucose and fruit is the best choice for those items.
I am currently going back to fruit and I know Ill be back to being on top because of it.
Fruit does not make you fat you can eat more of it when youre hungry.
Your body will tell you when you need more especially when you eat MONO MEALS.
Throw in some romaine and celery at the end of the day and its superb.
Funny thing is there was a time when there were no calorie tables or nutrition data. and man back then lived much longer than we do.
I realized long ago that arguing about fruitarian being the superb diet is a waste of time because everyone has to find reasons to knock things down before trying it themselves.
I think its very cool to live simple.
I have a dishwasher and a stove that I never use.
One fruit at a time when hungry and eat till full.
Its awsome.
The only reason you say its "meaningless" to everyone else is because nobody dares try it for fear of "longterm" problems.
She looks very alive to me and being a yoga instructer as well to me thats
incredible! Mostly apples with occasional other fruits, thats what im doing right now. i have about 30 lbs of apples and theyre in season here too. Thats what Im eating, along with some celery and romaine in the evenings.Fruitarians do eat greens on occasion and sometimes daily.I feel greens are important but during the day its all fruit for energy. The greens work good for the end of the day because most are not doing anything any more but relaxing.
I am 209 right now and I will be back to 160 by my birthday on October 30.
I maintained 160 for 2 years on fruit, for ME its the best. I am not condemning your response, I am just making a valid point that until people try something they shouldnt knock it down.
In the beginning of switching to 100% fruit there is intense detox and your stomach makes noise and things but thats because its adapting to what were supposed to eat, and once you get thru it its pretty cool from there.
Fruit is predigested and goes right to your intestines within 20 minutes for immediate use of the nutrients.
Digestion takes a lot of energy when you eat heavy foods or cooked foods/meat etc.
And that takes your energy.And heavy foods,cooked foods/meat etc has little or no water.The body needs water to digest and fruit has natural water and alot of it,not drinking water but natural water from the fruit.
Fruit moves very quickly through you and requires very little energy to digest it,
I can go on and on here because Ive studied it and done it but I think the main points are here.
www.fruitarian.com
www.thefruitpages.com
To me this isnt a "diet", its a natural way of life.
I miss it and Im going back.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 05:03AM by roadrunner.

As to "what changes/benefits you are realizing from this diet," it's the obvious one of weight loss, although that was a secondary benefit. I found that when I reduced nuts, seeds, and avocados to 10% of my dietary fat, I also reduced my symptoms of acid reflux. I don't claim to have cured my GERD completely, but when I eat meals with high fat content (a lot of nuts or dairy) or high protein (egg) I suffer for it. Avoiding pain is a great motivator. Fortunately, I LOVE FRUIT!!! I eat as much of it as I want and get to feel full without guilt. I also don't overeat to the point of discomfort because I have given myself permission to eat when I get hungry. It's great not being obsessed with counting calories, measuring things or watching the clock for when I can eat again. Another change is that I am finding it easier to exercise. The more I do, the easier it gets to do more. Best of all, I feel great.
As to what challenges I have encountered, I had to get over my imagined "yuk factor" to trying a green smoothie. The colour was off-putting, but I wanted more spinach to get my protein to 10%. After reading about putting spinach or other greens in fruit smoothies so much I finally gave it a try and couldn't taste the spinach (a pleasant surprise). Easy, delicious, and nutritious - TRIFECTA! It was a bother entering my food onto fitday.com to monitor proteins, fats, etc., but I did it for a while to be sure I was doing the right thing. I reassured myself and now trust myself to do the right things. I might check once a week or two, but don't worry about it now like I did at first.

I just wanted to point out that the book is FANTASTIC, and HIGHLY recommended for anyone curious about, or already practising a low-fat raw vegan diet. I recommend it to all raw foodists really. It has tons of information, and addresses all fears and misconceptions that one might have (like candida, diabetes, cancer, teeth, etc). I kick myself for having waited so long to get it. It's a must-read! It is a touch pricey but if you can't afford it or aren't sure, just check a library and if they don't have it they will likely order it for you.

The biggest misconception I see about 811 is that it's basically a fruitarian diet, NO, it's a frugivorous diet. Generally this means fruit meals for breakfast and lunch, and more fruit then a large salad for dinner, with greens comprising 2-6% of daily calories. That's a LOT of greens, since they have so few calories. In the book he also stresses the importance of exercise, sunlight, rest, water, emotional poise, etc. There are many pillars of health, diet alone cannot produce health.

This is not a restrictive diet in the least! I've had to literally pig out on fruit just to get enough calories in, he covers this in the book too.

There's no calculations or things to keep track of, to follow 811 you just eat all the fruit and veg you want, and a small amount of nuts or avocado with your salad. that's it. Using cron-o-meter, nutridiary, or fitday is recommended at first. All raw fooders would benefit from this, they may be shocked at the % fat they're eating.

Let me also point out eating high-fruit will not work if also consuming high-fat. Dr. G himself said this in a recent interview with Kevin Gianni.

Don't judge 811 based on how you feel after one fruit meal, or one day, or even a week. You have to really give it a shot for at least a few months. Dr. G suggests more like a year.

Anyone needing evidence of keeping protein at 10% or less, read the China Study, another amazing book which I'm sorry I waited so long to read.

Anyone needing evidence of 10% fat or less, look into the work of Ornish, McDougal, Barnard, etc etc. All advocate low fat vegan. 811 is just the raw version.

And more on TOPIC of the thread I've only really been truly doing 811 for about 1-2 months, prior to that for a few months I was trying to do a semi-811, but with some cooked quinoa or rice and some lightly steamed vedge. Prior to that I was medium-fat semi-raw for about 5months, and prior to that on the SAD for my previous 32 years. I can't comment about weight because I was a healthy weight prior to even going raw. The below benefits are on top of the "usual" raw benefits of improved energy, not getting sick, more positive calmer outlook, etc


BENEFITS:

-WAY more energy. I used to have to take naps after certain meals or long walks, that's completely gone, I never nap any more. Exercise used to be kind of a chore, now I actually look forward to it sometimes. (prior to going raw I didn't work out at all, hell I used to take naps at work despite having coffee). No need for coffee anymore I kicked that a long time ago. I now wake up refreshed and energetic versus ass-dragging and sore. IN ADDITION, I've recently added a 2nd workout every day: every morning prior to breakfast I've started doing pushups, situps, and stairclimbs. My other workout is weights 5x/week and I keep getting stronger for the past 10 months, no plateaus yet.

-Mental clarity: Hard to explain, but everything seems crisper, clearer. I can focus for longer periods, and don't get distracted as easily.

-Less greasy face/hair even if I don't shower for a day or two. Blackheads which I've always had on my nose are now gone. I shampooed with Dr. Bronners for a while but recently I've started only rinsing my hair and it's not oily, which is pretty crazy for me.

-very little B.O., stopped using deodorant crystal.

-Very regular BMs, practically no gas.

-Better breath / cleaner mouth. Rinsing well after fruit meals highly recommended.

-Less mucus. I can actually breath out of my nose while sleeping now. I believe my tonsils have also shrunk, I have always had very large tonsils.




CHALLENGES:

-Cravings: I get them sometimes, and have cheated. I now realize this is simply due to not getting enough fruit calories. I'm finding it best to eat huge at breakfast and lunch (after having worked out 1st thing in the AM). Because if I under-eat on those, then I need to eat a lot of fruit AND a big salad in the evening meal, and it's even harder to cram all that in.

-Stomach size: it can be challenging finding the stomach space to fit all the fruit into just 3 meals, I'm still working on that. The stomach stretches over time to accommodate though, my meals are getting bigger. The downside of this is that if you do cheat on something you shouldnt, with the bigger stomach you can REALLY eat a lot of it now, lol. But this stomach size factor of 811 I believe could easily lead to weightloss, almost similar to the way a gastric bypass works haha. But it's a challenge for me right now, because I don't want to lose any weight so I need to pack in 2500-3000 calories.

-Cost. It can get expensive. I need to look into bulk discounts or wholesale.

-No numbing. Fats tend to be comforting, numbing.. this is an aspect that some may find difficult with 811, the fact that without food which numbs our emotions, we actually have to deal with them.. This can be challenging but in my opinion is a much healthier way to be.

Are our days meant to be spent eating large amounts
of Sugar, in the form of Fruit? Do we need that much energy?
What is Man's Natural Activity?.....sedentary or active? You
have to dive deep when you consider the Best Diet for you.
Right now, the 80-10-10 doesn't serve me. Don't be conned into
thinking it's the best diet for everyone....go by your activity
(or energy) level. The healthier you get, the more active you want to be.
I say if you need a 'healing', then a plant-based raw diet with lots
of Greens is Better than a fruit-based raw diet. Perhaps as one
gravitates to the high-energy of a Doug Graham, then 80-10-10 serves
best. Is he really energetic, or just 'hyper' from too much Sugar?......WY
P.S. Please take this in the spirit of which it is offered.

Perhaps 80-10-10 and a reasonable amount of CR would be healthy ?

EZ rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps 80-10-10 and a reasonable amount of CR
> would be healthy ?

CR is a ridiculous concept that has no bearing on reality and no definition behind it at all.

Hi Krefcenz
I eat when im hungry. Only when im hungry.
It took me a long time to break the habit of eating before going to work, just because it was breakfast time.
I eat and juice fruit.
I eat and juice veggies.
I eat a large salad most evenings.
I keep some frozen fruit to make ice cream, but i rarely use it these days.
Sometimes i have steamed veggies with my salad. Old habits die hard! Its only very occasionally.
Its only because im steamimg veggies for my family, otherwise i would not be tempted.
I always carry fresh fruit with me.
Benefits, so many!
Healthy, vibrant, energetic. cleared up several miserable health issues.
Challenges encountered ~ MANY!!!
Its difficult to remember all of the challenges, im still facing some of them!
I came to really connect with, value and trust my inner guidance, so thats what i use to solve my problems.
I also dropped my fear and learnt to speak my truth, rather than just think it!
ffx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 08:22PM by The Fruit Faery.

It seems CR has been studied and shown to be really good for health, longevity, etc, so I've read anyway.

re: stomach size, so does your belly get really distended on an 8/1/1 diet?

Fruit Faery: Why skip breakfast, are you trying to lose weight? I find it necessary to eat large breakfasts and lunches to get enough daily calories, and to stave off cravings. If you're not hungry in the morning (I'm not always either), do 10mins of exercise, this will get the metabolism going for the day. Also, juicing fruit is not recommended, with the exception of citrus. Removing the fiber causes spikes in blood sugar.

Wheatgrass Yogi: "plant-based raw diet with lots of Greens"
Did you forget to mention the "high-fat" part? Because we need to get calories from somewhere, so this means either fat, fruit, or cooked carbs. period. By the way 80/10/10 diet IS exactly a "plant-based raw diet with lots of greens". Natural hygiene maintains that the ideal diet for supporting the body in health is the same as that which supports the body in sickness. And do you really think Doug Graham is hyper? Sugar does not cause hyperness. This is another fear addressed by the book. The body's fuel is sugar: all of its cells, including the brain. If we're not consuming enough of it, then the body must work to convert proteins and fats into sugars to get its fuel, both of which are highly inefficient processes with negative byproducts. It is true high-fruit + high-fat is no good. What is man's natural activity? Active, clearly. We evolved having to travel distances daily to find food, and climb trees for a meal. Today's modern convenience and whitecollar world makes it all too easy to be sedentary. If one is content with this, by all means do not try an 801010 diet.

spirit in which it's intended!

lisa m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems CR has been studied and shown to be
> really good for health, longevity, etc, so I've
> read anyway.
>
> re: stomach size, so does your belly get really
> distended on an 8/1/1 diet?

I find CR to be an invalid concept. Saying you live longer eating less is the same as saying you live longer by eating more. The obvious question is "less than what?" and there is no answer.

you are right , there is no answer

at least not one thats fits everyone everywhere!

what is less for me is definitely less for you .. or him ..or her...

but calorie restriction does work by giving the the body system a break from working overtime

when the body is given a break from overworking then it stands to reason that the parts will last longer .. not indefinitely ..but longer

we do have a limit to our longevity , how we stretch that longevity is an individual thing

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 09:30PM by Jgunn.

lisa M: "re: stomach size, so does your belly get really distended on an 8/1/1 diet?"

No, I haven't notice this to be the case. Even though I am stuffing myself it doesn't really show, lol. And even if it were the case to a slight extent, because fruit is mostly water, it goes away quickly enough.

I find that I feel better when I practice a reasonable amount of CR. I'm not talking about starving or fasting. The way I apply CR to my daily raw food lifestyle is to wait between meals for a return of hunger signal rather then mindlessly eating. Does this result in eating less (CR) ? I believe that for me it does. A more conscious approach to eating is not any kind of denial of food to my body but rather tuning in and responding in a more conscious way to my body's needs and avoiding excesses that go beyond those needs.

rawpreston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fruit Faery: Why skip breakfast, are you trying
> to lose weight? I find it necessary to eat large
> breakfasts and lunches to get enough daily
> calories, and to stave off cravings. If you're
> not hungry in the morning (I'm not always either),
> do 10mins of exercise, this will get the
> metabolism going for the day. Also, juicing fruit
> is not recommended, with the exception of citrus.
> Removing the fiber causes spikes in blood sugar.
>

rawpreston
I eat when im hungry, not because it happens to be a meal time!
If I'm not hungry. I don't eat. Why would i want to make myself hungry in order to eat?
I do exercise every morning. That does not necessarily make me hungry!
you may find it necessary to eat large breakfasts and lunches to get enough daily
calories, and to stave off cravings.
I am not you my friend!
I listen to my body, not yours!
As regards the juicing fruit tip....

When i started along this path, I juiced my veggies and ate no fruit because i was told that is what i should do.
Some time later, I juiced veggies and ate fruit.
Further along my path I juiced veggies and blended fruit.
Then one magical day i actually juiced fruit!
I loved it and have never looked back!

Life has taught me to listen to my body and walk my own path.
This is why i love raw vegan so much. The one enables the other!
ffx

I just did a google search for info about CR: [www.google.com]

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> but calorie restriction does work by giving the
> the body system a break from working overtime
>
> when the body is given a break from overworking
> then it stands to reason that the parts will last
> longer .. not indefinitely ..but longer
>

I don't agree with that. You can give your body much more of a rest by eating pizza and white bread. It's nothing to do with rest.

EZ rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find that I feel better when I practice a
> reasonable amount of CR. I'm not talking about
> starving or fasting. The way I apply CR to my
> daily raw food lifestyle is to wait between meals
> for a return of hunger signal rather then
> mindlessly eating. Does this result in eating less
> (CR) ? I believe that for me it does.

There is nothing wrong with "mindlessly eating". It's like talking about "mindlessly breathing" or "mindlessly sleeping".

Raw food has taught me that the correct way to eat is whatever you like/can get, whenever you want to eat it and as often as you like. I still find it hard at times to fill myself up enough on the raw food. CR is a made up thing, again it's the exact same as saying EM, or eating more is good for you. *shrugs*

You need to forget about that idea you've been fed of a "mindless" person eating lots and becoming fat. People are fat because they eat processed foods, NOT because eating to excess is somehow more stupid or lazy etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 10:56PM by SuperInfinity.

SuperInfinity

Quote

"mindlessly eating". It's like talking about "mindlessly breathing" or "mindlessly sleeping".

The autonomic nervous system controls breathing and sleeping. Food intake is a conscious action.

EZ rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SuperInfinity"mindlessly eating". It's like
> talking about "mindlessly breathing" or
> "mindlessly sleeping".
>
> The autonomic nervous system controls breathing
> and sleeping. Food intake is a conscious action.

Breathing and sleeping is controlled by conscious thought, especially when you want it to be. It's the same thing with eating.

Again, FORGET about the "slob" who mindlessly eats and gets fat. There is no such thing, just people who eat processed foods. "CR" does not make sense, it's a psychological play on the mind based on fear of being fat that's ingrained in our society.

Define what CR is and you might have something, however I would still object to the name, just as I would object to saying OE overeating lets you live longer.

Superinfinity your body cannot rest eating processed pizza and white bread. It is in a huge state of working digestion to digest , the cooked tomatoes, the fatty cheese, the meaty protein all bad food combining.

It is all to do with rest ..digestion is work .. your body is working to digest. when your digestive system is not working it is at rest.

When your digestive system has nothing to digest it is at rest and your body is sending out signals , impulses and directions to the rest of your cells to repair.

Please look into some microbiology courses, there are many online free resources to understand how your body works on a cellular level

nothing mindlessly eats in the wild , animals are driven by hunger to survive , it is a very mindfull thought .. must survive .. must eat .. there is nothing mindless about that, the only difference is most animals in the wild stop eating when they are full .. humans OVEREAT because they cant or wont accept the signal of satiation

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Superinfinity your body cannot rest eating
> processed pizza and white bread. It is in a huge
> state of working digestion to digest , the cooked
> tomatoes, the fatty cheese, the meaty protein all
> bad food combining.
>

Not really. The digestive system has far more to do with raw food, it has to break it down. That's why people who aren't raw, aren't able to take it on all at once.

My dad would have huge trouble digesting even two apples. It's like weightlifting or running... the digestive system on the SAD is no working much at all and is in very poor shape. On the other hand with raw food, it's being used extensively. You get bowel movements all the time.

> It is all to do with rest ..digestion is work ..
> your body is working to digest. when your
> digestive system is not working it is at rest.
>
> When your digestive system has nothing to digest
> it is at rest and your body is sending out signals
> , impulses and directions to the rest of your
> cells to repair.
>

There is zero evidence of any of this. The body repairs itself just as well when you're eating raw food as normal. There is no evolutionary reason why it couldn't.

> Please look into some microbiology courses, there
> are many online free resources to understand how
> your body works on a cellular level
>

Not any mainstream microbiology though is it? Faddist "microbiology" maybe.

> nothing mindlessly eats in the wild , animals are
> driven by hunger to survive , it is a very
> mindfull thought .. must survive .. must eat ..
> there is nothing mindless about that, the only
> difference is most animals in the wild stop eating
> when they are full .. humans OVEREAT because they
> cant or wont accept the signal of satiation

Well guess what Jgunn? Humans ARE animals. They do NOT overeat on raw foods that are in their natural state, just like animals don't. Why would we? We're the very same as them.

To be honest, I'm getting a little sick of this deranged view that humans overeat. It's perverse nonsense of an idea and a product of American culture.

how can you be sick of this deranged view that humans overeat when you yourself admit that you binge on nuts (legumes) and feel sick from it ?

humans overeat all the time

the digestive system processing cooked foods doesnt process it hardly at all while at the same time working extremely hard to extract nutrients, it sends out receptors looking for nutrients that for the most part arent even there, that is why people get sick , they lack nutrients they lack fiber they lack vitamins they lack minerals ..

.. anything in raw foods such as undigestable fiber just sweeps through the digestive track

there is no Faddist microbiology .. it is science .. a cell is a cell and it works the way it should the way it was designed by god or evolution or the giant spagetti monster in the sky whatever you choose to believe in .. do to it things that disrupt it and things go wrong ... stop doing things that dissrupt it and things right themselves

i never said wild animals dont overeat or do overeat what i said is they do what they do with mindfullness and instinct ..something that is lost in the general human population!

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2009 12:32AM by Jgunn.