I'm reaching my wit's end on this... I have a couple of very close family members who "know it all" when it comes to raw food/juicing, the whole lifestyle thing. They have been educated on it, mostly by me along with videos/pod-casts/radio shows/ more.

In spite of all the education & knowledge they have, they continue to go in the wrong direction, almost a rebellion type of thing. There "excuse" is, "well, the more you bug me about it, the more I don't want to do it". I basically see this as a selfish attitude on their part as -

waa-waa-waa- I wanna do my own thing... To heck with the consequences, I am ruled by my taste buds & I don't wanna hear how bad all this stuff is for me.

They just don't want to hear about it any longer. I try to reason with them with logic;

Does the wife of the alcoholic husband relentlessly ask him to quit drinking? Does she stop asking when he says - quit nagging me about this?

I would hope not...If she cares for his health & well being, I would think that she would continue to voice her opinion, for in her silence she is giving in to his desires & at that point he feels off the hook. (somewhat)


In my situation, we are all past the point of listing the good & bad points, the healthy foods & drinks, healthy lifestyle choices...

As I mentioned, they pretty much know all of that stuff, are just tired of hearing it & don't want to hear it anymore. They cook just about all the food they consume, & with the colder months upon us, even more so now - they are big fans of the "comfort food" mentality.

It is one thing if done in ignorance, but completely another when done out of stupidity.

Also, over the past 6 mo. or so, I have progressed by leaps & bounds in regards to the raw/healthy eating ideals, while they (in my opinion) are comfortable in their rut, on the plateau, however you want to phrase it.

Of course, this makes it all that much harder to deal with this situation.

Sorry for the rant/extended post. I just had to get this off my chest. It has been bothering me for quite a while. How can I approach this? What to do?

I know, maybe I need to take a step back & let things run their course. That is tough for a person like me to do, when I see people I care about destroying their health.

Need some ideas, answers, thoughts, whatever you can offer - (before I explode, lol)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2009 11:42AM by juicerkatz.

Katz....You're making the classic mistake by trying
to help other people...you're taking important 'energy' away
from your own search.
"Let each Soul walk its path".....WY

jk,

The autonomy and free will of your close family members must be respected, even if it means that they use that free will to do the wrong thing.

Live and let live Juicerkatz. As for the addict reference, the wife could get very sick banging her head against the brick wall of her husbands alcoholism. Let go, let & God, and when they see you excelling at your chosen lifestyle, let that attract them to your way of life.
I understand your need to preach because you feeling and looking good, you want everyone in the world to have it, especially loved ones. I used to be like tghat when i was loosing weight, I get compliments and I want to share with everybody, then I stop and gain weight again, then I feel like a horses ass. So today, if someone asks I share, if not, I keep my mouth shut.
As WY said focus that energy on yourself. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Bless

juicerkatz,

Agreed with the others, and with sympathy. I can tell you from experience that you cannot force another person to live, or to live right, against their will. And it will almost kill you to try. And you will likely fail, no matter how much effort you expend. I am sorry to say so, but I have never met with anyone that has succeeded at this. As WY suggests, it is a more prudent use of your will, of your life force, to continue your personal psychic evolution, and to continue to set a good example for others, whom you wish to rescue out of love, presumably, rather than to mollify your frustration.

My mother died as a result of cancer treatments that I struggled to avert. I went through the exhausting rigarmarole of alternative treatments, and conventional treatments, and all the attendant doubt and dashed hope, right alongside her. I have never worked so hard to help someone in all my life, and I stand by every single excruciating effort I made for her. But I will tell you this: If I had to do it over again, I would battle more softly but show more graceful kindness. Kindness is never a cause for regret, and regret is more galling and soul-destroying than frustration ever could be, believe me.

I wish you peace. Peace, peace, peace.

The above are certainly correct. This is a common (and almost inevitable) concern. You can tell them about your healthy lifestyle and how happy you are. This is the greatest converter there is. Along with the patience and humor to accept other folks for where THEY are in their evolution. Ironically, it is ACCEPTING others....with humor....that will make a convert...if there is one to be made.

They say that people do the best they can - given their state of consciousness. I tend to agree. Eating well is far more involved than a simple intellectual agreement....but rather is bound up in emotion, memories, goals and habits.

I'm sure your intentions are in the right place, and I'm sure you'll help many. I've been eating this way for over a decade....and I've never made one 'convert', but rather have seen many loved ones and friends slowly gain awareness of a healthier way to eat. That's good enough.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

They probably aren't destroying their health. If you back off a bit now they will remember your words of advice when they need to. Horses to water and all the stuff

All good replies, thanks very much to all. I know this subject has been covered on here before, but I feel it is a good ting to approach it again from time to time. My issue (& I have several!) is definantly within myself, I realize that.

I have always been a strong willed or "hard-core" person, & it carries through in all aspects of my life. That being said, I am also a very gentle person, full of compassion for those around me, and will help anyone that needs it.


However, I have learned years ago that it is pointless to try and discuss the "raw" deal with many folks, so I rarely do that at all anymore. Only if it comes up in discussion & I am asked questions about it, will I share.

I also know that "living the lifestyle" will rarely change a person, via. osmosis...sadly...well, maybe not - I mean, that would infer that a person has no free will or weak will, & I wouldn't want that either...Kinda a "catch 22" of sorts.

--- Now I know how God feels, lol ---


Still a shame, a real shame. I knew in my heart what all your responses would be, & I also know they are all correct. I knew it from my initial post. Guess I just needing a sounding board, 'cause I'm feeling all out of sorts over this.

Thought maybe someone just *might* have some novel new ideas on how to reach people.

A raw foodist should write a book;

"How to convince your loved ones in 10 easy steps"

Maybe I should do that! A lengthy book, full of all the right arguments, reasons, etc., & then in the final chapter, end with "Each Soul must walk its own path" , to loosely quote WY.

So, it's all boils down to a matter of "let go, let the chips fall where they may..."

A real bummer, I tell you. I'm not sure how I can continue smelling cooked food for the rest of my life, at this point it really turns my stomach something awful...

I still think you aren't getting it - let other people do there own thing. would you want to be told endlessly that your choices weren't right - you call your loved ones 'stupid' ! You talk about your own progression - well done but allow other to move at their own pace.


you said:
I also know that "living the lifestyle" will rarely change a person, via. osmosis...sadly...well, maybe not - I mean, that would infer that a person has no free will or weak will, & I wouldn't want that either...Kinda a "catch 22" of sorts.

I don't believe that this is right. People can observe something and go away and think about it - that is free will.

flipperjan,

I am getting it - I do get it. However, I guess it is not coming across in the "1D" world of the internet; that is, I suppose I am not conveying my points properly.

Thanks again for all the replies, I appreciate them all.

My sister and I no longer communicate. She is "pushy" and seems to thrive on stirring up trouble that she claims she does "for your own good". I finally reached a point where I told her not to bother me any more. Its not that I don't love my sister but I just can't get along with her. Relationships are a fragile thing.

Katz,

I have fought this battle with family and as the others have indicated, do just what is best for you. How do I deal with it? Well I cook, bake, fry, and prepare the foods that my family loves (meats included) but I eat only what I have prescribed for myself; raw. Sure I can preach, and I can teach, but the bottom line is that I can not manipulate the self will of others, no matter how much I love them or how much I may try. Just quietly set the example and perhaps, you will get others to slightly follow. I have learned that amongst friends, family, and strangers, that the less I say the more succesful the situation becomes. I knod, smile, wink, and support those around me, but I sure do not force my own beliefs on them; if I did I would be no different than a religous fanactic. Individuality is a wonderful thing......

I just got an email newsletter from Jasmuheen (the breatharian!), and here is one snippet I thought really applies:

"Family and friends will make the right choices that they need to also move through these times, just as we have done and are continuing to do, and this is something that we need to trust, for all will tread these pathways as best they can when they are ready. All are being challenged in some way now regarding living life in ways that are harmonious for us all and so we offer the following data to also help with this - smile."

Hi juicerkatz

I'm responding to your initial post, (you may have moved forward on this by now)

My question.......
Why are you doing this to yourself and others?
Its the question that I ask myself when I hit a brick wall!

Acceptance of where you and they are right now may be the key to this issue.
Love and healing
ffx

the best way to influence others is by setting a great example yourself for them to see. the less you "preach"... the better.

"do your thing and do it well.".....

there needs to be interest on the part of the person you are hoping to influence before they will ever hear what you are trying to tell them.

i admire your desire to help others.

jj

IMO what a person eats is one of the most deeply personal things they feel.And if they havent been awakened to the value of a pure clean diet,they are most likely going to be ruled entirely by their taste buds.
But what wonderful flavors abound in the raw food world!

Vinny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2009 05:30PM by eaglefly.

I have enough to do trying to clean up my side of the street.

Treat it like a business:

Tell them " You can do whatever you want but you will be paying for your OWN medical bills if it is a result of destroying your liver, pancreas, arteries,etc.. due to your lifestyle choices."

Then sit back and relax.

I know it isn't as easy as that especially if they are your kids but there are levels of communication that you can utilize to let them know what is your business and what is theirs.

Up to you.

Several valid and interesting approaches to this issue of trying to convince others of a "better path" to take. I think you may have already found much wisdom here. It is a certainly a challenging and often frustrating situation when we see others that have done things out of ignorance, blatent rebellion, laziness, etc etc. To those of us who genuinely want to help, it hurts us. Hard to understand why someone would do the "wrong thing". But I believe we must all step back and try to begin to see what is behind our frustration. There is always something, and often it has to do with us, not them. Using the situation with an alcoholic and hagging wife, do you really believe in your heart that "nagging" will help anyone? Has it really ever helped you? It is unlikely. You see, I think each of us has a basic need, that of loving and being loved. Most of us have a grasp of the way loving operates in our life. We support, we say and do positive things with and for that person, we may even pray diligently for. The problem arises when that other person does something that we don't agree with. A husband drinks. We see the damage it does. We see the effect it has on the marriage, the children, the job. We genuinely want that person to stop doing the thing we know is hurting them. That is a "loving" and beneficial desire on our part.

But think about the other person, the alcoholic. Why do they actually drirnk? There are so many studies and books about this subject that it boggles the mind. But more likely than not, people drink to hide or cover up something on the inside that is too painful to deal with on the outside. Maybe someone told that person, "Oh go on, have a drink, it will relax you ..." blah blah blah. Over time, that one little drink in the evening, becomes several, especially when this person never identifies the real problem and begins to deal with it. In some cases, the real problem may be the nagging wife. Other cases may be that his job is in jeopardy and he doesn't know how to communicate that, So he turns inward. Whatever the real issue, the inability to deal with reality leads to using alcohol, or chocolate or sex or abuse on the outside, which actually pushes the identity of the real issue further inward. The real truth is that probably this husband is fearful and has no skills in being able to honestly deal with his emotions. So it becomes easier to drink and experience that false sense of control that covers up the real sense of the fear of not being in control.

Our problem in dealing with another person is magnified by our own issues. What is the reason we want that person to stop drinking? Maybe our father was a drunk and beat us. Maybe our wife or loved one used alcohol to escape communication with us and hurt us. Whatever it is, we have to come to one simple and plain realization, we cannot control others. We don't have the right, and we surely don't have the power to do it. Sure we'd like to. In our rmind, we don't really want to "control" them, but help them, But the fact is, we have no say so in other people's lives. That husband has the right to drink. No law in this country say he can't. He has the right to harm himself, his family, everything, and there's nothing we can do, until he does break the law, drives or beats the kids, whatever. So how do we deal with the lack of control? How do we "get" this person to do the right thing? Well you can't, not by nagging for sure. Not by force. Not by abandonment, etc etc etc. The only thing you can do with and for another person is to have influence. You have no control, but you can have influence. You can model behavior. You can be there for them when they fall, without judgement and prejudice. You can take them in at 3 am when they're slammed drunk and can't go home. You can love them. But you can't control them. It's sad when they never "get it". It hurts us. But each of us has our own choices to make, and then consequences to face whether they are good choices, or not so good.

The only thing we can do is love them, especially when they appear unloveable. Forgive unceasingly, and show unending grace. Love them back to real life. My two cents.

juicerkatz,
For me the best webpage on raw foods and fruitarianism actually kept the arguement for raw foods very, very simple. you either believe and accept that it is adaquate in every way or you you don't. Thats a pretty extreme point of view, but thats it in a nutshell. I found this to be true.

For me there is an irony in your post. In my experiements with raw foodism, I constantly found myself having to 'defend' raw foodism, and each and every time people tried to cast me as a party @#$%& or trying to offend someone else about their food choices. I found that really very sad, because I just rejected certain foods at social gatherings, without explaining why. Its only with their prying that the topic came up. People can be very funny about food if you reject something offered.

Recently,I found myself wanting to introduce the concept of raw foodism to a relative. He has cancer and is actually getting chemotherapy. I didn't suggest it on two accounts. One is I didn't want to take responsibility for his health by suggesting any life changes which have medical impact. Hes a very conventional thinking person, and I am sure he wouldn't know what to make of rawfoodism or understand the concept. The second account is that I am not currently rawing, so that would be a bit of hypocrasy.

hi juicerkatz

read what dns wrote

except for me ... it might be hard to do because i tend to not pick up the slack for other people

but i must agree that i do wholeheartedly resonate with the fact that although we truly don't have CONTROL over others, we definetely have INFLUENCE

that is a very subtle, fine and excellent point

thanks for pointing that out dns

for a first post, .... not bad

I now want my partner to get on board with raw foods! This is because I want to get back on board! The last time I attempted this he did everything he could to get me away from it. He is probably the biggest influence on me over this issue. Unforuntately, one of his most precious 'outlets' for pleasure involves going to resturants. Its easier to go raw and perhaps stay raw if your partner is raw also, at least that is how it seems. The biggest thing for me will be for me to get on board, and not be influenced, and see what happens.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I now want my partner to get on board with raw
> foods! This is because I want to get back on
> board! The last time I attempted this he did
> everything he could to get me away from it. He is
> probably the biggest influence on me over this
> issue. Unforuntately, one of his most precious
> 'outlets' for pleasure involves going to
> resturants. Its easier to go raw and perhaps stay
> raw if your partner is raw also, at least that is
> how it seems. The biggest thing for me will be for
> me to get on board, and not be influenced, and see
> what happens.

That is very true - it is much easier if we are all "pulling together". It is similar to the analogy on a smoker/(recent) non smoker or drinker/(recent non drinker in the same household. If the temptation is always around, it can be most difficult.

The temptation is always there for me, but I am not tempted, as I now abhor cook food & all the smells that go with it. I am just wanting all the others in my house to see it that way as well...

juicerkatz,
I realized something today, which should have been obvious. Fruit is such a natural draw for people. In the lunch room today someone commented that I am always eating fruit, it was a positive comment, and it looked like she wanted some. She was just passing by.

I was talking to a friend, and gave him a slice of melon. He was very happy that I shared, but I think he wasn't as impressed with it as I was. I tasted creamy vanilla, intensely sweet. He just finshed eating some beans, so maybe hes taste buds weren't on. I gave some to my partner, and he thought it was 'ok'. I was suprised that he couldn't taste the sweetness. So there is an element of individual perception and senses. Maybe people can't taste as much until they have has some experience with high raw.

My partner found my stash of nori seaweed in the car, and he helped himself to a sheet. He seemed to totally enjoy it. I was so glad that he did that. Its funny he seemed to look like he was trying to sneak it. Nori is sooo good with alfalfa sprouts, thats what I had early this morning.

Yeah, already my sense of abhoring the smell of cooked food is coming back. I didn't make anything of it. So, i know what you are talking about. There is a natural draw for really good raw foods. I shouldn't have been suprised, but I was. I am sure you are having more of an impact than you think.

ha ha

so hilarious mislu that your partner pilfered a nice square dark nori paper
maybe he'll become a raw addict

hi juicerkatz

i think that you are doing great
lucky for your family that they have such a positive, and passionate living example of what great health can be

be easy on yourself
it takes time to influence others

just keep showing how great it is
and others may or may not follow suit LOL

Mislu -

the thing about the taste buds, you are spot on with that. When you aren't consuming dead cooked food (if it can be labeled as food) your palate becomes regenerated and all raw food bursts with magnificent flavor!

I'm sure all raw foodists on here will concur with that.

la_veronique -


Don't know how much of a "positive" impact I am having on others, though...I believe I may just be annoying to them, more than anything else, lol!

Juicerkatz,
That is a point which you can suggest, that there is an experience that THEY are missing by not trying raw. And that the experience of raw goes beyond the actual eating of food. I'm not so great at the suggesting part. But I have the feeling that you can and perhaps should leave some bit of information unsaid for them to piece together, and figure out. There is an emotional element, and a lot of tradition behind cooked foods, sometimes that can cause fear of the unknown. If someone gets iritated, you could ask them why? Thats one thing I never understood, why would anyone else get irritated with the choices I make.

I think its not just an issue strictly isolated to raw foods. The general public in the U.S. and a number of other countries are obscessed with various food ideals, whether or not they are founded on good health or not. I remember at a workplace I got irritated with a woman who always talked about a particular non-raw 'diet' she was on. So, perhaps other people might lump raw foods into just another 'diet'. She really didn't push it, but I was for the most part not interested.

Mislu,

Good post;

I will reiterate - at this point, I am sure I am coming off as annoying to them, they just want to be left alone. lol

They know about the enhanced taste bud sensation, but you know how it is with cooked food - addictive. Plus, we are in the winter season now, and warm foods are viewed as a great comfort on a winters' morn.

I can do without them, no problem, I can see where some folks feel they need the warm comfort food, but a person can get past that if they so desire. Again, great comments by all.

It is great "food for thought".

Juicerkatz,
Interesting point about warmth. I got interested in raw again because I like having clean teeth, for some reason they don't really feel clean even with brushing if I am eating junk. I was afraid at first to eat alot of raw foods because some think it makes the body 'cold'. But I found that I actually tolerate the cooler weather thats arrived here. so its making me rethink that criticism. Immediately raw foods don't feel hot or warming, but hours later when exposed to the weather I feel more tolerant. Years ago my grandfather tried to force me to drink hot tea before going on an outing. He thought it would help me keep warm. But absolutely refused, and after about a half hour of trying to argue he just gave up. I think He was so suprised when I wasn't cold.

I might be tempted to suggest that the feeling/wanting of "Warm comfort foods" are all in the mind. If we "think" we will feel a certain way, we will act it out. A self fulfilling prophecy...

I prefer to think for myself, instead of letting an addictive food dictate how I should react. Hope that all makes sense. It is early here, & I haven't had much sleep, so I may not be thinking clearly.