There are two concepts that are misconstrued and misunderstood that need to be made very clear. First, healthy eating is a lifestyle that God made for His people to consume daily and for all practical purposes. Vegetarianism is a unique lifestyle that develops countless attributes. One attribute is, is that it highly stipulates the body to desire the opposite sex after which it stipulates the organs to complete their satisfaction. God wants us to enjoy having sex and to multiply with those whom we are equally yoked and therefore, married to. Secondly, being spiritual does not mean that we are not to be sexually active but should allow ourselves to be free and inclusive of having a healthy, sexual relationship with whom we are equally yoked and again, therefore, married to.

poetree

I don't see the misunderstanding or misconstruing anywhere

do you?

i like poems on trees

poetree

Enjoyed the cartoon, Bryan. Thanks.


My favorite raw vegan

Poetree - God bless you for your sincerity, but get ready to be ripped to shreds for your beliefs. This is a very PC forum, so I hope you have a strong constitution. It is no longer fashionable to be a good old fashioned, Bible-believing Christian American any longer. Hold onto your boot straps for the ride of your life, 'cus it's gonna' get ugly. *grin* =)

*****************************
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

Bryan,

Great cartoon : )


poetree,

Hmmm, food for thought . . . it's fun to speculate on what we're supposed to do with these wondrous bodies on this wondrous Earth : )



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2009 02:46PM by Tamukha.

> There are two concepts that are misconstrued and
> misunderstood that need to be made very clear.
> First, healthy eating is a lifestyle that God made
> for His people to consume daily and for all
> practical purposes. Vegetarianism is a unique
> lifestyle that develops countless attributes.

I believe from the earliest times people wondered why God would make a world in which there is pain and suffering. Genesis 1: 29-30 explains how this wasn't so in the beginning when herbs and trees bearing fruit were food for us and green plants were food for animals.

> God wants us to enjoy having sex and
> to multiply with those whom we are equally yoked
> and therefore, married to.

Amen.. Song of Solomon

Hi Plainlydressed,

Thank you for the blessing of God our Father. Perhaps, this does not apply to you but to those who are considering vegetarianism and spiritualism. Those 2 isms are most prolific together. If it is no longer fashionable to you, to live as a Bible-believing American then what is fashionable now? Or what book is preferred now? God is unchangeable. The Holy Spirit abounds in us as well but a person must believe in it in order to adhere to it. It is ever present. We naturally and inevitably evolve but it would be detrimental to allow changes without believing in God.. George Washington's quote was his prerogative to say or either part of his philosophy. Apparently, he believed in man without God. As for me, I prefer to live on my feet, my back, my butt and pray occasionally on my knees to live as long as God promises. Life is about learning to knowing better and then making better choices as we live on.

Hello la_veronique

If u don't see the misunderstanding or misconstruing then this does not apply to you. This is not a poetree forum so I won't write any however, you can read some of my poems at <www.poetry.com>, put my name in (Al Wordlaw) Do u write poems? Send me one that you like...

Yo Bryan,

I liked that. That's classic humor.

poetree

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> poetree
>
> I don't see the misunderstanding or misconstruing
> anywhere
>
> do you?
>
> i like poems on trees
>
> poetree
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Tree

Standing tall and beautiful with greenish colored leaves
May be of oak or of pine but to roots it cleaves
It is strong and mighty and may bare fruit
It’s the icon of nature, without a substitute

A tree can dance by its limbs
From swishy washy wind
It may whither a lightening storm
Still a picturesque in the end

A tree is home to birds, to bees and others
Have you ever climbed a tree like your sisters or brothers?
Up in it, you feel protected
And where peace is projected
You feel, on top of the world
How can you be dejected?

A tree can be your friend
It never minds your bother
You can tell it secrets and your dreams
And do you know it has a Father?

When the leaves are turning colorful
And showing good-bye for the next season
They are preparing for a better return:
For God and us is the reason

When the fruit has dropped away
But comes back another season, another day
Just remember, our merciful God
Made a tree for us, that way…

By Al Wordlaw

Inspired by la_veronique

"George Washington's quote was his prerogative to say or either part of his philosophy. Apparently, he believed in man without God."

Poetree, I've noticed Plainlydressed signature quote for some time and always thought George Washington was taking a dig at popular American Christianity at the time, and was a devout man himself, though it was at a time of revolution so it may have been more of a battle cry. It would be good to see the quote in context.

"Today, in a quiet grove at Valley Forge, there is a heroic-sized monument to Washington. He is depicted not astride a charging horse nor overlooking a battlefield of glory, but kneeling in humble prayer, calling upon the God of heaven for divine help. To gaze upon the statue prompts the mind to remember the oft-heard expression, “A man stands tallest when upon his knees.”

Poetree - I am laughing quite jovially right now because of your mis-assumption. (Is that a word?) I am as old fashioned a Bible-believing Christian as you can get and have taken my fair (and un-fair) shots on this and other forums for standing for my convictions. You sadly (and SERIOUSLY) misunderstood my friendly warning from a fellow believer, who, like yourself, will stand for conviction regardless of the changing winds of doctrine. I'm sorry that you completely and utterly misunderstood my intention. Please go back and re-read my intended ENCOURAGEMENT albeit warning. =)

I shake my head in wonderment and disbelief at the projected guessed meanings of George Washington's simple statement which rings so clear that it amazes me how anyone (regardless of political position) could misunderstandd. Simply put - A true American will not go down without a fight for freedom (for ALL people) and will refuse to live under a tyrannical dictatorial government on their knees rather than standing to fight to the death for freedom and justice for all. Whoever assumed that statment was in reference to PRAYER has a serious problem understanding a very simple, basic principle of what was once the foundation of true Americans...... especially when disrepecting a man who placed GOD as the foundation of his fight for our country's freedom and independence from tyranny:

“He was a sincere believer in the Christian faith and a truly devout man.”
{Quote by John Marshall Revolutionary General, Secretary of State, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice}

"To the character of hero and patriot, this good man added that of Christian. Although the greatest man upon earth, he disdained not to humble himself before his God and to trust in the mercies of Christ.”
{Quote by Gunning Bedford, signer of the Constitution}

“The name of American, belongs to you…and with slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.”
{George Washington in his Farewell Address to the American people, Paragraph 10; September 17, 1796}

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
{George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779}

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors."

"Is it necessary that any one should ask, “Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."
{Quote by Nelly Custis-Lewis, Washington's adopted daughter}

A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:

“O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”

“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”

"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

TELL ME NOW IF GEORGE WASHINGTON "BELIEVED IN MAN WITHOUT GOD" AND STUDY YOUR HISTORY VERY VERY CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU STEP FORWARD WITH SUCH BOLD DISREPSECT OF THE MEN WHO SHED BLOOD FOR THE VERY FREEDOMS WE NOW SLANDER AND DISREGARD TODAY.

*****************************
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2009 06:58PM by plainlydressed.

"George Washington said: "The thing that sets the American Christian apart..."

George Washington valued good citizens. It didn't matter to him what if any faith they may profess. The inclusion of the word 'Christian' invites multiple interpretations, imho.

ps- He may be taking a 'dig' at himself as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2009 07:33PM by loeve.

Hi plainlydressed,

It's easy to misunderstand things but if I am wrong I stand to be corrected. I've always liked George Washington. His birthday and mine are on the same day plus he's always in my pocket. He's like a "homey" to me so, no disrespect to him. We'll continue to appreciate him and move on.

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "George Washington said: "The thing that sets the
> American Christian apart..."
>
> George Washington valued good citizens. It didn't
> matter to him what if any faith they may profess.
> The inclusion of the word 'Christian' invites
> multiple interpretations, imho.
>
> ps- He may be taking a 'dig' at himself as well.

Now there is confusion whether George Washington ever said these words. They may be adapted from the words of Mexican hero, Emiliano Zapata, and incorrectly attributed to Washington, sometimes by Americans who live by "live free or die", a motto of neighboring New Hampshire which I happen to admire.

"I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
As quoted in Heroes of Mexico (1969) by Morris Rosenblum, p. 112
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas.
It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!
As quoted in Liberation Theologies in North America and Europeý (1979)"

[en.wikiquote.org]

I'm such a google nerd.

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> loeve Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "George Washington said: "The thing that sets
> the
> > American Christian apart..."
> >
> > George Washington valued good citizens. It
> didn't
> > matter to him what if any faith they may
> profess.
> > The inclusion of the word 'Christian' invites
> > multiple interpretations, imho.
> >
> > ps- He may be taking a 'dig' at himself as
> well.
>
> Now there is confusion whether George Washington
> ever said these words. They may be adapted from
> the words of Mexican hero, Emiliano Zapata, and
> incorrectly attributed to Washington, sometimes by
> Americans who live by "live free or die", a motto
> of neighboring New Hampshire which I happen to
> admire.
>
> "I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
>
> As quoted in Heroes of Mexico (1969) by Morris
> Rosenblum, p. 112
> Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas.
> It's better to die upon your feet than to live
> upon your knees!
> As quoted in Liberation Theologies in North
> America and Europeý (1979)"
>
> [en.wikiquote.org]
>
> I'm such a google nerd.

For those following this thread the signature quote in question read --

>George Washington said, “The thing that sets the American Christian apart from all other people in the world is that he would rather die on his feet before he will live on his knees.”<

When we change our signature quotes they change retroactively, at least in this case, making it difficult to follow the discussion.

So this George Washington quote is bogus, thank goodness. I would not like to think Washington was that arrogant or sarcastic depending on how one might interpret it.

Dear Loeve,

Thank u 4 setting the record on George Washington as justifiable. Perhaps, he was misquoted or misunderstood. When I studied about him in history, I don't remember him as saying any such a thing. If anyone knows where that particular quote was found then please forward that information to this forum otherwise, it is possible that the quote got fouled up. I think he was a courageous 1st president...

What I find quite fascinating is that the the origin of the message is more attractive than the message itself. Having changed my signature because I liked PH's quote even better, I figured it best to return the original quote of confusion because it still stands true, regardless of the orator, and because this argument will continue into oblivion long after the meaning of the very quote is long forgotten. I have yet to be proven wrong in the origin of the quote. And the arguments presented are quoting from other cyber forums asking the same question, and I prefer to rely on Historical evidence presented from libraries of history rather than Wiki, which has been proven to be inaccurate at best. The message stands, to me, to be far more important than the origin. Does the difference in origin change the message?

I will speak no further on this topic except to apologize for my forgetfulness that a conservative Christian American is immediately hammered for offering support to a fellow Christian American who boldly steps forth with opinion, as did our brave little Poetree. God bless you, dear soul, and continue forth in the faith - one for which you will be greatly judged and criticized. =)

*****************************
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

peotree, yes, it would be good know the source, many quotes tracable to a letter or speech, and worth while out of respect for the founding fathers.

>"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry <


Plainlydressed, the Patrick Henry quote is another found in the Christian Nation movement and used by David Barton of Wallbuilders in his book, and later in his article, Unconfirmed Quotations (01/2000) where he admits to the lack of a historical source and advises his readers not to use these words.

[www.wallbuilders.com]

The Patrick Henry quote is another misquote or mistake, the words of the author of an article printed in The American Mercury in 1956. Here is a link to a blog which has a link to a photo image of the article.

[scienceblogs.com]

Why are you bombarding us with these questionable quotes from the Christian Nation movement when there are so many eloquent quotable passages from scripture?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2009 05:07PM by loeve.

Tamuka,

Thank u 4 your comment. It seems that my involvement or posting an idea on this site has created quite a bit of controversy. I came here 2 learn and 2 share the value of eating a certain and wonderful way. I didn't know that it would cause people 2 flare up at and disrespect others so, carry on in good taste.

Poetree

loeve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The Patrick Henry quote is another misquote or
> mistake, the words of the author of an article
> printed in The American Mercury in 1956. Here is
> a link to a blog which has a link to a photo image
> of the article.
>

Correction, the original quote seems to have been "a bit of commentary" printed in The Virginian, April, 1956 and then "cited" in The American Mercury the same year.

[www.goodasyou.org]

Now the quotation marks used in The Virginian suggest there is an earlier text of "the commentary".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2009 07:09PM by loeve.

really? ive never seen anyone get hammered on for their faith here on these forums ... i find that quite dissapointing to hear , im sorry Plainlydressed and Poetree if you feel that way ... all of us come from all walks of spirituality here and I always thought in most cases that was respected, at least thats what ive always noticed, perhaps ive been blind to it

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Goodness! This thread has gotten quite forensic!


poetree,

Right back achya : )

hehe Tam , no kidding ,

group hug?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Jodi,

Non-denominational group hug--all I got in my pockets is ones

pffft ya got me beat all i got is handfull of almonds in mine lol

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

In despite of
there's a lota luv...

U all er alrite!

Let's All hug and solute GW
poetree

sorry, salute...

poetree

I'll take "forensic"