Macrobiotic principles classify raw food as incredibly yin.
I am constantly being told that although my diet may well suit me now, that i am causing long term damage to my stomach, spleen small and large intestine.
That eventually I will cause untold damage and end up with chronic fatigue like symptoms if i keep eating raw.

I have been advised to add grains,fish pulses miso soups, cooked veggies and sea veggies to my diet to allow the organs to contract and heal as its the expansiveness of the yin foods that is causing the weakness to the digestive organs.

I cant tolerate grains,pulses soy etc, that what brought me to raw in the first place. I have no intention of adding these foods.

I spent the weekend with 12 people eating variations of this diet. None of them look particularly healthy or on top of their game to me, except the young ones.

I ate my raw, they ate their cooked.
They over ate, I didn't.
They spent the rest of the afternoon burping and passing wind, feeling uncomfortable after eating, also feeling tired after their meal. I didn't.
I had loads of energy and felt great.
Am I the one that needs to change?
Somehow, I THINK NOT!

I love 5 element/ transformation theory, but macrobiotics appear to have taken elements of the transformations and transformed them to fit and create their principles
Anyone here previously followed a macrobiotic diet?
Does this resonate with you?
Feedback appreciated
ffx

I don't know much about macrobiotic principles, but common sense tells me that raw foods shouldn't cause all those problems... I mean, did everyone go around with stomach and spleen problems and chronic fatigue before somebody came up with the bright idea of cooking their food..? I think not... it's pretty obvious to me that eating fresh, living foods is going to be the most energising vibrant diet to follow... and my own experience proves this, to me. Cos it makes me dance around and stuff.

Saying that, I think a macrobiotic diet would be much much better than a SAD diet as it is incorporating foods which are closer to that ideal fresh unprocessed state.

Hey Fruit faery,
I got side tracked from raw foods from macrobiotics, TCM, not to mention the traditional 4 food groups. Its interesting, I now see TCM in much of the same light as conventional medicine. Some of the herbs used are so incredibly toxic, even some of the so called 'longevity herbs'. I bought this orchid for a number of reasons, its beautiful blooms, its bamboo like growth, and its reputation of a longevity herbs. I read descriptions, and it make it sound so good. At the very end it cautioned against convulsions and seizures. Thats the one thing that kept me from actually using it, although its always used in conjuction with a 'detoxifying herb', which I could never find. Dispite that, I still felt it had value. Well I changed my mind about that one. Now I hope that it will finally bloom, and I will smell its sweet fragence, thats another claim made about it, its smells so absolutely wonderful. I'm not afraid of that aspect at all, or its large yellow blossom.

I took a class in TCM, and thought I was really getting educated. There were two points which made me say 'eh?'. One was the tounge chart, why were there all these states of 'dismarmony' and yet there wasn't an example of the ideal perfect health.I asked the instructor why that was. Man did that ever make her pause, and she usually has the answer to everything immediately. She brought up the topic of raw foods, and how its a craze now. She thought that humans need heat to help with digestion. I asked her what would eating raw foods would lead to, her answer was pretty vague. There was also an issue of 'coldness' in the body, and that cooking food provided heat. It took a while for me to catch on, but she really believed this, and I think she cooked everything. She would often appear in class with a down vest when everyone else seemed perfectly comfortable, or maybe even slightly hot. It was in the high 70's low 80's, so why the down vest?

I absolutely hate these types of criticisms, especially when there are so many institutional backing. It doesn't mean its correct. For instance, my partners sister is a conventional dietition. When we came for a visit, we left our goldfish unfed for 2 weeks. She said that she would be dead by the time I came home. Well, shes still alive, and in fact she looks way better than when we left her. She also appeared to grow, especially her tail fin. So, I think there is a lot which is being overlooked by TCM, conventional diet ideas, and other ideal diet ideas.

lisa m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know much about macrobiotic principles,
> but common sense tells me that raw foods shouldn't
> cause all those problems... I mean, did everyone
> go around with stomach and spleen problems and
> chronic fatigue before somebody came up with the
> bright idea of cooking their food..? I think
> not... it's pretty obvious to me that eating
> fresh, living foods is going to be the most
> energising vibrant diet to follow... and my own
> experience proves this, to me. Cos it makes me
> dance around and stuff.
>
> Saying that, I think a macrobiotic diet would be
> much much better than a SAD diet as it is
> incorporating foods which are closer to that ideal
> fresh unprocessed state.


lisa m
I agree about the common sense!

I feel that these people had such tunnel vision and were so focused on correcting my imbalances and setting me on the right path that they did not notice the difference between their discomfort and my ease!
I also got the where do you get your protein from? The idea of making your own rather than relying on second hand possibly unprocessable protein wasnt welcomed!

I also agree that a macrobiotic approach would be better than sad.
I did witness grains being cooked for an hour or more and veggies being cooked to death. It was such a shame, as this was beautiful organic produce.


Mislu
I dont get into the prescribing of herbs, but i do use the transformations as a diagnostic tool for healing. I find it very useful. Its the macrobiotic interpretation that does not sit with me.

I can just imagine the mind set of 'humans needing heat to help with digestion' after spending time with this group over the weekend. They were all complaining about the cold too. It was a bit nippy, but if they are cold now, i dont know what will happen to them when winter hits! maybe they have to eat extra hot food to cope with the cold!

I have several more weekends to spend with this group over the coming year. It will be interesting to see how our relationship develops!

Something I forgot to add.

Its been my experience this weekend that this macrobiotic group's approach to raw is theoretical.
Its coming from their, or someone elses's mind, as they have been informed that raw is an unhealthy 'craze' diet.
They speak from the head.

My approach to raw is experiential. Im doing it. I speak from my heart. A place of deep knowing and connectedness.

the awesome thing about TCM traditional chinese medicine is their

Martial Arts: it more than rawwcks.. it is a SUPERB system as well as a complete science

their acupuncture is pretty awesome too
as well as their acupressure

and i'm sure some of their herbs are good too though i haven't taken any

however all this stuff about hot cold cook this and that

well.... whatever

i just take the good from TCM and discard the rest

the proof is definetely in the pudding

hey maybe it works for them

macrobiotic would definetely not work for me

eating a bunch of rice and cooked foods and fish and miso
would definetely put a HUGE wrench in my vibes

but hey...

you know.. .i guess if some of these people are REALLY convinced that it works for them.. maybe it acts like some sort of placebo affect

and if they REALLY think that eating their foods RAW will kill them

well then.. it probably will

so much is all in the mind.

really

Yes la_veronique, the placebo affect!
They appeared to be very fearful of raw foods, including the raw food eater!
In my opinion the group i met didnt look so healthy!
They behaved almost cult like in their approach.
Macrobiotics eating is not part of TCM anyway.
Macrobiotic theory, as far as i can see, adopted certain core principles of TCM and then customised them to fit!

la_veronique
Wow, some really good analysis, especially the part about the mind. Yes, that definately changes how your body functions. The dietary recommendations coming from TCM probably do work in the context of chinese culture, in that they may be better habits than what other cooked food paterns might be. In general they advise plenty of lightly cooked veggies, moderate cooked grain, very small amounts of animal protein, no dairy, no refined food,no alcohol for the most part, except for delivery of herbs. What they haven't seemed to do is think outside of the 'cooked' box. I think they get the impression that its unhealthy because of detox symptoms. I got distracted with that myself on my first attempt at going raw. I figured that the head spinning, fever and night sweats were the result that I was getting sick because I had inadaquate nutrition. Now I don't think so. But that is probably the largest problem people have with raw and vegan, the sense that its 'not enough'.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But that is probably the largest problem people
> have with raw and vegan, the sense that its 'not
> enough'.


Mislu, you have hit the nail on the head!
I remember thinking that raw food would not fill me up and that it would not be enough when I first started researching raw, so I understand other's scepticism.

I also remember stocking up on far too much produce, just in case the fruit didn't ripen in time for me to eat it.
I was driven by my thoughts at that time. When i started to eat more raw food, I relaxed into it, let go and started to find my way through all of the misinformation out there.
Experiential learning is the key!

The Fruit Faery,
Yes

yeah fruit faery

plus its fun to experience
i mean... that is what life is all about you know?

to not stress so much and just have fun
like i think that papayas are really neat
and so are blueberries

i think the fruit would laugh at me
if i was stressing over them
it is laughable you know

as far as macrobiotic people making it a religious cult

i think anything can be turned into a religion

and i also don't see anything wrong with religion

i mean religion just means belief system

and i always have a belief system that i am acting upon whether i am conscious o it or not

so even atheists

though the claim to not have a religion

actually do

and its kind of funny in a way

but yeah

i think to that if they got out of the cooked box

then maybe this and maybe that wouldn't or would happen

but i really don't care about them at all

i'm just focused on myself

so they can eat all the brown rice and lightly steamed fish and broccoli that they want

i hope they have a blast

la-veronique,
Yes that sounds like a good ethic. If you leave someone alone, and not try to pressure someone into something they don't understand, maybe they are better that way. I hope they have a blast also, now that I think about it. I don't want someone to tell me that I'm not eating right, and I want to enjoy eating along with all other aspects of living.

My comments are purely limited to the group of macrobiotic dieters that i spent my weekend with.
These are the only group that I have encountered. Until this point,it has only ever been SAD eaters that have passed judgement on my diet.

It was interesting to spend time with a group of people who have made huge dietary life changes themselves, yet were unable to accept those of another, in any way shape or form.
I encountered similar responses to those of the SAD eaters, below the surface, I felt an underlying fear or maybe challenge in their responses to Raw.

What i was trying to express was a feeling that i encounter from the group of not standing in one's own power and owning it.
Needing the group and a map (customised TCM) for direction and clarity. The energy felt stuck and blinkered and dead. Maybe that has something to do with the diet.
Im simply writing about my encounter and how i felt about my experience. It is not my intention to pass judgement or condemn others for their choices.
My attention is clearly focused on me. I have no interest in other people's choices.
My curiosity is ignited when our paths cross and in observing the dance that follows!
Just my experience this weekend

okeey dokeey

shhmokeeyy

My grandfather often said 'okeey dokeey'. I so miss his presence.
'okeey dokeey' keeps his memory alive for me.
Thanks for that!

yes, I think thats strange also that macrobiotics would clash with raw. It certainly clashes with a number of other 'diets' out there. I think thats one thing which scares people away, if it sounds too far off from the familiar, whatever that is.

One gentle man shared me his story about being healed of severe krohns symptoms. They were severe enough that a conventional doctor wanted to perform surgery immediately to remove his colon. That sent him running out of the office to find another point of view. He went to some alternative health practitioner that told him to immediately fast, lay down in bed, keep warm, no stress, and call him when his hunger returned. After 14 days he was hungry. I don't recall what and how he broke his fast, but he has been on a cooked macrobiotic diet. Wheat, meat, dairy free. Steamed veggies, brown rice, and I think miso. Hes still alive, but to tell you the truth he looked awful. But if I went through that experience, I am sure I would be hesitant to change my eating patterns much. So you never know what someone has gone through when they are on some specialized menu.

hi fruit faery

awwww... that made me smile
i only knew one person who said that
i thought it sounded cool
she said okey dokey shhmokeey
and i just kind of liked it
so i say it
when i wanna