I went out with my partner, he likes to eat at restaurants. I ordered this salad because its really the only thing on the menu that a raw foodist could order. The salad comes with an optional addition of some animal products or tofu. I guess the server was just doing her job in asking. But when I first heard her ask, I interpreted her saying "your meal really isn't complete...do you want to complete your meal?" I just paused and said no. Remembering that the concept of raw is taking more time then I would like to reach every part of the globe.

Its not the first time I have been annoyed. Some other experiences were much more annoying, and difficult to forget. One was actually while investigating a multilevel marketing business centered around healthier body care and supplements. In passing I mentioned eating raw foods, centered around fruit. I thought this wouldn't be news at all for these folks, but I quickly found out that these folks were actually very conventionally thinking, even though I found them through an ad in a raw foodist publication. "Where did you get your protein?" was the immediate shocking question. I was too annoyed to even respond. I could just tell that any response was not going to be accepted. From that point on it seemed like I was under constant unrelenting observation and criticism. Needless to say I didn't stay part of that network of people.

Why is this issue and concept of protein so central to so many? I would find it a bit easier to understand if people just ate those 'protein sources' because its something they want to eat. But there is this undertone that its necessary, and if you don't eat them there is something wrong with you. The last time I had one of these sources I tasted an unpleasant bitterness to it that I never tasted while on cooked foods. How could anyone overlook this taste, and actively promote it?

I get a kick out of the peeps that think Thanksgiving dinner isn't finished until they have eaten so much dead bird that they can hardly walk.

I think it really is a new concept for people to take in - that protein does not only come from meat, dairy, eggs and fish (seafood). Since that's what on the food pyramid that is taught in schools, it MUST be right (she wrote sarcastically). I know that I assumed those were the only protein sources until I researched information on raw food. When I saw the question, "Where do apes, elephants, hippos, horses and giraffes get their protein?" I realized that they must get it from vegetation. I really think the people asking where do you get your protein are baffled. They haven't questioned protein sources and assume that those limited items on the protein level of the food pyramid are the only ones that qualify as protein. They might think (although erroneously) that you are harming yourself. I agree with you that it is bizarre that these sources of protein are actively promoted. There is a lot of unlearning to be done!


My favorite raw vegan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2010 02:38AM by Trive.

Trive,
I must admit that I sometimes fall into traditional western thinking patterns about food. I guess it should make it feel easier to not feel so annoyed. That 'oh yeah, I used to think like that also, and sometimes still do". When I lived in California this wasn't such a far fetched idea, there were some raw vegan restaurants near where I lived, but have since closed. I guess it was even a little far in california to have a high end gourmet raw vegan place. In washington, its difficult sometimes to even find a vegan item on the menu, other than a green salad. Most salads usually have some cheese or chicken, eggs etc... I haven't seen a bowl of fruit on the menu around here, but I have seen it in seattle. It would be interesting to know what locations in the world are easiest to be raw and vegan. I would think tropical and sub tropical.

Mislu,

I believe a lot of this underlying sensibility of needing protein has to do with the milieu we, in the western part of the world, have grown up in. In other words, having a chunk of meaty substance is just the most natural thing-- it's not to be questioned by most, or even thought of as a choice one can make.

The longer I've been raw, the more meat actually looks like flesh to me. I mean actual flesh, like human flesh. Gross. And absolutely inedible.

If people were to view this whole protein thing on more of a continuum, at least there might be more room for negotiation, especially when ordering a salad in a restaurant...

Meat & dairy lobbying is very widespread and frustrating, spreading that message of ignorance.

Buddhistforlife,
A very interesting perspective "If people were to view this whole protein thing on more of a continuum..." please tell me more about what you are getting at. What comes to mind for me is how concentrated a source, how heavy or light, and amount consumed. For instance: pork>beef>chicken>fish>tofu>whole beans>raw peas>veggies>fruit>nectar going from high to lower and less. This doesn't necessarily equal a judgement on quality or appropriateness. Is this what you mean?

I have seen meat in that light. The most difficult is when the animal is whole and quite small.

Utopian Life,
The most annoying thing is that I believe the dairy industry is still subsidized. As so are many food processors. Isn't the corn and soy industries? According to one natural hygiene webpage Frances Moore Lappe has contributed to a number of protein/amino acid myths, even while advancing vegetarianism. The animal product producers were quick to get behind that also. I am still not sure who came up with 'complete proteins' first.

Reminds me of this cartoon that's been circulating for a while on the net:



Wishing you vibrant health

Mislu,

While I daresay no one in the States can remember knowing anyone who died of protein malnutrition, so far in our cultural distant past is it as a phenomenon, when it still occurred, the nascent animal husbandry industries began marketing protein, specifically that from animal tissue, as essential to human health. This concept quickly infected the nascent allopathic medical field, which went so far as to push meat prescriptively: in the 1890s, American bourgeoise men were expected to eat upward of a 100 grams daily in protein. A backlash occurred when such a regimen proved to induce fatal diabetes and cardiovascular diseases. When the Second World War ramped up meat production for military rations, there was a resurgence in the popluar idea that humans need meat to thrive, i.e. our troops fight evil personified with good ol' American K-rations in their bellies. Stateside at this time, meat was rationed, and, as during the Depression, beans and produce from neighborhood Victory gardens became valuable substitutes for calories. After the war, when meat-conditioned troops returned home and rationing in the civilian market was suspended, meat producers took that as an opportunity to replenish and boost their market share and production. Despite the resurgence of catastrophic health problems from meat based diets today, as in the late 19th c., there has not been an ensuing backlash; one never hears Dr. Oz or whoever state simply, "meat based diets kill people." This is probably because the false concept of "proteination" is too inextricably entwined with our very national identity. Saying too much protein will kill you doesn't just sound impolitic--it sounds ludicrous.

I have had to deal with the protein, miss? question myself, in social outings and from family, since I became a vegetarian almost 16 years ago. I have found a confident, "I am not a carnivore--I don't need that much protein" cuts off any remonstration before it's begun.

I'd reply,

"Where do I get my protein? Same place I get my carbohydrates, fat, vitamins, and minerals. Same place I get my calories. From my food."

If you eat enough calories from fruits and vegetables, you get enough protein.

If you don't eat enough calories, you won't have enough protein. But you also won't have enough carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, etc...

Raw food eaters typically undereat on calories. But the protein isn't an issue any more than all the other nutrients in that case. We all need to eat enough food

For a long time I struggled with the protein issue,thinking a salad,even with bean sprouts,didnt have enough protein,and the meal was incomplete without it.

Love the cartoon above!

I think the folks that post here,who havent eaten meat for years,and are up and alive and walking around ,are proof enough that you dont need any of it!!!

Vinny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2010 05:44PM by eaglefly.

Tamukha,
Thank you for the brief history lesson about the U.S. and meat eating, and protein fascination. Isn't there also some american mental association with meat and wealth? Years ago I tried some recommendations from Golds gymn, it actually recommended much more protein than that, 1 gram of protein for each lb. of body weight, and also to restrict any carbs to 100 grams a day. I strictly followed that for about a week, and woke up in the middle of the night with a craving for pasta that was impossible to ignore, so I made some and ate it.

I also noticed that my sweat smelled like urine when I worked out. I thought, this can't be good. So I ate more whole grains, fruit, veggies, but still had plenty of protein. I was living in Korea at the time, it was cheaper to get more of it from tofu, peanuts, pine nuts etc. I am sure the switch saved me from some health problems that would have happened if I kept that up. All the soy from tofu probably wasn't great either.

The national obsession with diets is also a bit over the top. I am so glad that it appears to be abating somewhat. I think people are tired of following a plan, buying books, supplements, keeping track, and I think people just want to eat again. It could be partly from the economic conditions that people have something else to think about for awhile. Kind of a blessing in a way. Although there is a connection with being overweight and poor economics, along with lack of education.

The association between wealth and eating meat is not an American phenomenon. Meat is much more expensive to produce than vegetables, and we live in a world where starvation has been a major risk for the poor in most societies throughout history. Those who can feed themselves at all are doing okay, but those who can eat meat regularly clearly have wealth to spare.

The modern American situation is a new one (though the same thing is also happening in many other countries). Between the economies of factory farming and government subsidies on feed crops, meat is cheaper now (at least in it's direct purchasing price) than it naturally should be, and possibly cheaper than it has ever been in human history. The result is that many of the American poor can choose to live primarily on bacon cheeseburgers if they see fit.

It's in part because Americans have lost the sense of meat as being something valuable and special that serving sizes of meat have grown and grown, and the frequency of meat-based meals have gotten higher and higher.

I'm new to the Raw Food lifestyle so forgive me if I ask any silly questions but I figure you guys would have the correct answers.

So far as I have read (please correct if I'm wrong) Brazil nuts have the most amount of protein (as far as nuts go) and from what I can tell I'm getting more than enough protein from all the nuts I consume (walnuts, cashews, sunflower seeds, almonds etc)

Beans are high in protein but I can't seem to find information on how long to soak them or how long - best method for sprouting? If I just soak the beans are they safe to eat?

I'm also trying to make sure I get plenty of greens as they have high amounts of protein too but other than salads and smoothies it's difficult to find recipes that include them.

If any of you have any suggestions for websites that I could visit for recipes or books that I should read (everyone raves about the Alissa Cohen book but I live in Canada and can't get it shipped here) please feel free to send the information my way. I'd appreciate any help that I can get. Since I have been eating this way I feel soo much better but I don't want to lose the enthusiasm I have. Also I'm not trying to concentrate just on the protein aspect of this I just want to have all my track covered so to speak.

Thanks again :-)

Finallyfeelingbetter,
Here is a chart from a Natural Hygiene webpage, rating foods by over all food value, based on the authors opinion. Taking into account nutrients, calories, taste, and sense of satisfaction, also toxins in food. Its not the end all of information, but its an interesting chart. What I like is that it takes a lot of factors into account.
[www.rawfoodexplained.com]

Here is a section on protein, with a number of pages/chapters.
[www.rawfoodexplained.com]

Here is a section on 'complete proteins' meaning foods with all amino acids. Brazil nuts are on the list, along with a number of vegan foods. According to the author itsNOT necessary to get all amino acids in one meal. But its provided for people who are truely concerned about getting balanced amino acid intake.
[www.rawfoodexplained.com]

Years ago I was surprised to read an article in a body building magazine. The magazine bought into the idea of 'complete proteins', but mentioned that some animal foods were actually short on one or more amino acids. They were all present, but the ratio was not ideal. In any case most people will NOT need the nutritional advice of bodybuilders, its actually not necessarily a healthy lifestyle.

OMG.
I used to follow the bodybuilder lifestyle as far as eating.
All that meat,milk,pasta,and protein powder.
No way would ever do that now.

Vinny

Funny cartoon Pistachio!

Oh, so sad also. But unfortunately, so true.

I think protein is important, but according to several sources (including even the American Dietetics Association), as long as we get enough calories everyday from a variety of sources, we should also get enough protein.

In my own experience, it's been more important to make sure to get adequate vitamins and minerals - especially iron, calcium, and zinc.

IMO, everything is right there in the fresh raw natural foods.
People need not worry because God has provided what we need.

Yesterday, my elderly mother, who lives in Florida, told me that she had been to a doctor because the veins in her lower calves were "leaking." She will need to be fitted for special stockings that fit tightly around her ankles and gradually get less tight as they go up. She has been overweight all of her adult life and I'm sure it's related to that. After all these years and many similar conversations, I still gave it another shot and suggested that she try what my husband and I do - eat a really big salad for the evening meal. She "explained" that she had to have protein and likes to cook sausage patties and soak up the grease using a paper towel. She couldn't grasp that salad vegetables have any protein. I let it drop, as usual, although I can't stop caring. Later in the conversation she told me about a friend who is overweight. She said that she suggested to him that he eat some vegetables, but he insists that he doesn't like them. Then she summed it up to me by saying, "But you can't tell anybody anything." How true!


My favorite raw vegan

Trive,
I think you would have a hard time selling fruits and vegetables on the account of protein. However, you would have a much better time appealing with the vitamin C and bioflavonoids/flavonoids that they contain.

"Rutin and hesperidin are part of this Vitamin P group and function synergistically
with Vitamin C in regard to maintaining healthy capillaries...."
[www.acu-cell.com]

Whole fresh citrus fruits are an excellent source, but I think most of them get lost in making juice. Apples are also a great source. Buckwheat greens are reported to be the highest source of rutin. The only problem is in over consumption it can cause light sensitivity in some people.

I am sure that other pigments in fruits, berries, vegetables (along with their minerals and vitamins) also contribute to healthy veins, healthy circulation and the health of the body in general.

Trive, Cont..
This reminds me of my mother to a large degree. She used to put big chunks of cheese on my sisters food, saying 'that much more protein'. I think to spite me, because I was concerned about all the fat she was adding to my sisters food. During this same time period she was on a grapefruit diet, and was afraid of letting my sister eat grapefruit, because she was too thin and frail(in her mind) already. She really honestly thought that eating a single grapefruit would instantly make my sister turn into skin in bones like starving children in Africa. Doing my duty as a responsible big brother I stood up to my mother and said 'where do you get these ideas?' And I peeled a grapefruit for her because she wanted one. And of course she was fine.

Another issue she is brainwashed with is calcium. During the last decade she started drinking several glasses of milk a day, and swallowing large calcium carbonate pills. (1,000 miligrams) She is so afraid of developing osteoporosis, and she thinks this is going to prevent it. I sent her some articles about how excess calcium actually contributes to that condition. I don't know if she has changed her mind about that. She developed diabetes, and now uses sucralose, and other sugar substitutes. I told her those were no good. I guess I am just a party @#$%&, I think she was thinking something like what am I supposed to sweeten stuff with?

"High protein" propaganda is very effective in convincing people to eat harmful foods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2010 08:27AM by Omega.

maybe this was said already, but most people don't even know why they ask that question so I just ask them why do I need so much protein?

david

Hi
I have been struggling with some new health issues for about 2 months. I am now 50 and am not having trouble with perimenopause but know that my body is in the 'change'. I am not 100% raw but I am organic and eat consciously with good amounts of wheatgrass, sprouts and greens, whole fruits and vegies, and naturally fermented raw foods, closer to 70%. I have not been to my naturopath yet but I believe after doing some research that I have a prolapsed uterus sitting on my rectum. Any thought on how to heal this? Thanks. Faeterri

sorry this was suppose to be a new topic

faeterri,

You really should go see an ob/gyn. This is a condition requiring surgery, typically, as it could cause bladder or colon damage if untreated.