"No one has acidity problems because they are deficient in baking soda, so acidity problems ought not be cured by taking baking soda orally."

"Over time the oral administration of bicarb..."

The taking of 'pHour salts' was what was shared with us earlier, which is different than "baking soda" or "bicarbonate".

pHour salts are a mixture of:

sodium bicarbonate
magnesium bicarbonate
calcium bicarbonate
potassium bicarbonate

This is the supplement shared earlier, the minerals listed in common with table 1 of the study referenced above, again minus the bicarbonate.

HCA = hydrochloric acid levels? Maybe bicarbs help, maybe not... depends. Some benefit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2010 02:53PM by loeve.

the 'one food' is not baking soda, but some athletes are into it. It's called 'soda doping' in the sports world. There are studies on it that show it helps counteract metabolic acidity resulting from endurance activities, a pH thing...

loeve,

There is no clinical evidence that taking bicarbonates[of any kind] orally over weeks or months has an aggregate alkalizing effect. One doctor has told me of patients he's seen who have caused serious hydrochloric acid imbalances from ingesting of bicarbs, although he did not think these were Miracle Minerals Supplement, which I have myself. It was from Hippocrates, and I believe is part and parcel of a high minerals food-based regimen there. Full disclosure: I would not take MMS or any bicarb compound except in crisis and briefly. I don't know if luvyuu's condition qualifies.

I have not read any of Dr. Young's books, although they are on my to-do list, and I doubt I would disagree with his main premises. However, I do not think the continuous taking of supplements composed of substances found in natural food is beneficial in the long run, just as the taking of pharmaceuticals for hypertension is not beneficial in the long run. But truly, the main arbiter for that is whether a protocol is working.

"There is no clinical evidence that taking bicarbonates[of any kind] orally over weeks or months has an aggregate alkalizing effect. One doctor has told me of patients he's seen who have caused serious hydrochloric acid imbalances from ingesting of bicarbs..."

There's always going to be people who abuse supplements, who pop them like candy or have chosen them poorly.

There are studys on bicarbs, though it's the long term effects and suitability to each individual that is a question, as you point out regarding whether a protocol is working.


"Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda)
During high intensity exercise, acid (H+) and carbon dioxide (CO2) accumulate in the muscle and blood. One of the ways you get rid of the acidity and CO2 is to buffer the acid and CO2 with bicarbonate ions. The acid and CO2 are then removed in the lungs. Bicarbonate loading (e.g., 0.3 grams per kg taken 60–90 minutes prior to exercise or 5 grams taken 2 times per day for 5-days) has been shown to be an effective way to buffer acidity during high intensity exercise lasting 1–3 minutes in duration [294-297]. This can improve exercise capacity in events like the 400 – 800 m run or 100 – 200 m swim [298]. Although bicarbonate loading can improve exercise, some people have difficulty with their stomach tolerating bicarbonate as it may cause gastrointestinal distress."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2010 04:10PM by loeve.

"I have not read any of Dr. Young's books, although they are on my to-do list, and I doubt I would disagree with his main premises."

The pHour salts supplement might be a special low sodium version of baking soda.. it's hard to say. I've read The pH Miracle by Young and learned a lot but am not sold on all of his science. For example--

According to Dr. Robert O. Young, "if the body's
blood and tissues remain alkaline at 7.365 to
7.4 it is susceptible to NO illness, sickness or
dis-ease." [articlesofhealth.blogspot.com]


"7.365 to 7.4" is written by someone who might not have a rigorous science background judging by the lack of concern for significant digits. It should read simply '7.4', blood pH probably not kept to within a ten-thousandth of a fraction...

loeve,

If you go to the Amazon reviews of his book, "The pH Miracle," you will be astounded by the controversy, the main negative remarks therein being questions about his credentials and understanding of biochemistry. This is why I am looking forward to reading his stuff; I tend to think that what is accepted science, if it is no longer rigorously examined but is accepted medical canon, might have been decided upon for political reasons as easily as for purely scientific ones, so there's a lot we may not actually know . . .

P.S. Soda doping scares me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2010 11:40PM by Tamukha.

I sometimes read the most negative views as well over at Amazon and learn a lot, in The pH Miracle's case finding some also blasting the diet of veggies and, as you say, Robert Young's background and science credentials. But for every negative comment there are four positive by those who have been inspired to ditch the meat and cheeze in favor of Young's vegan mostly raw food diet. The acidity of the standard western diet resonates with many and I think Young makes a valuable contribution.

"P.S. Soda doping scares me."

The athletes using sodium bicarbonate are probably doing so just prior to races, and this well known practice has, so far, not been regulated by the world doping authorities. Sodium bicarbonate has a 'drug' page referenced by PubMed which lists conventional use and precautions-- [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] like how long to take and when to consult a doctor. I'm sure athletes are keeping within bounds but you never know, like one PubMed case of a pregnant woman eating a whole box of sodium bicarbonate every day and coming down with alkalosis! Odd cravings?

geez, that's really hard to choose one, i can think of 5 and this page has some good insight on that, take a look...

[www.wethechange.com]

Ok... so I am in the process of trying to cut back on the phour salts... and here is my experience so far...... 2 nights ago i couldn't sleep my legs were twitchy and my insides are feeling hot... I added a bit more of the salts cause well... i really like to sleep... but i am at half of what i was taking... in the morning i check my ph yesterday and the day before was at 5... this morning it was at 5.5... so if i go off this stuff all together i'm going to have another bout with acidosis... i'm eating 100% raw... and my burps are acidic... and i'm having trouble breathing... anyone have any suggestions...

love laugh and dream

Hi luvyuu,
Yeah, the low pH (5), muscle twitching and trouble breathing are all symptoms
there might be an acid/base imbalance. A pH of 5.5 is good, IMO, showing you
have some alkaline reserves. Like I said before, I get a little concerned when
I'm stuck at a urine pH of 5 and relax in the 5+ to 9 "normal" range.

I don't want to discourage you from following the protocol of your health care
professional, in this case the pHour salts. From PubMed --

"In chronic forms of metabolic acidosis... Sodium bicarbonate formulations that
can be assimilated from the small bowel are especially tolerable and
suitable."
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

That said, some foods are higher than others in natural minerals and
bicarbonates, carrots high on the list. Seaweed is loaded with minerals,
like chloride...

You say that anywhere from 5-9 is good... why then does everything i read say it should me no less then 7.3??? I don't want to be dependent on this stuff for the rest of my life... and i'd like to eat some sweet fruit... i'm rather frustrated I eat loads of carrots... i could stand to add some seaweed to my diet... the thing with the phour salts is that it makes my belly swell up with gas and i already have a gas problem... so adding to that is not optimal for me... but i'm in this weird conflicted space... for example... i can't have sweet fruit because it makes me too acidic... but I can't have nuts because of the high fat and it makes my gall bladder hurt... fasting makes me too acidic and eating makes my belly hurt... ... phour salts helps the acidosis but makes my belly hurt... there has gotta be something i can do...

love laugh and dream

Sure, different sources give slightly different *urine* pH normal ranges.
Merck gives the normal range at 4.6 to 8 [www.mercksource.com] , which
means a urine pH test will normally come back in that range. One function of
the kidneys is to filter out acidic waste and send it to the bladder, our urine
will normally be more or less acidic, but probably does not like being very
acidic all the time.

Now, the *blood* has a much more narrow range of pH that is considered normal,
pH 7.4 +/-, Robert Young preferring the blood to be at pH 7.365. You and I
can't do our own blood, only a lab has the right equipment.

Yeah, you can only do so many carrots.... ever try coconut/carrot juice?
Coconuts work better for me than, say, peanuts. Natural bicarbonates are found
with high potassium produce so bananas, potatoes and sweet potatoes are a few
more...

You might try asking at pharmacies, taking along the pHour salts and seeing
what they have that might be comparable but easier to take? I've found
pharmacists to be very helpful...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2010 09:10PM by loeve.

Back on topic, I could choose APRICOTS! They are my favorite fruit! Also, I can eat the most quantity of apricots, over any other fruit.

Interestingly, I have gone through phases throughout my raw transition. At first, I enjoyed eaten lots of banana’s and apples as mono meals. Where as now, I cannot stand eating more than two of these things. In fact, I do not actually LIKE banana’s any more, and can take or leave an apple. I do not enjoy them, but do not hate them either.

Although, being stranded on an island with only one food IS still extremely unhealthy, it is never healthy to go days, or weeks on the same food. Unless, of course, you have had a toxic diet and in that case, would need to cleanse (fasting followed by a simple mono diet would help detox a toxic body, although it would be too hard for most people!)

no one, No One has mentioned wheatgrass juice?! wow you guys. it's the most nutritionally complete food on the planet. if i had to go with only one food forever that would be it. perhaps not the tastiest choice but if it was between that and apples (or any fruit) i'd have to choose the mineral packed green stuff.

> You say that anywhere from 5-9 is good... why then
> does everything i read say it should me no less
> then 7.3???
> ...

luvyuu,
I did some more checking to try and find out what the norms are. Several of us check our urine pH's and interpret the results ourselves. Here's another perspective on *urine* pH urinalysis --

"(Urine) pH: The pH test area measures pH values generally within 1 unit in the range of 5 ? 8.5 visually and 5 ? 9 instrumentally with 5 being very acidic and 8.5 being highly alkaline. Generally, urine pH results range from 5.5 - 7.5 in a bell curve type statistical distribution. Average for normal human urine is slightly acidic 6.0, however deviations from normal in any given sample are unremarkable and consistent, repeated readings are required in the top or bottom range to suggest an abnormality."

[www.craigmedical.com]

From what I gather on *urine* pH from reading around the net:

pH 9 = very alkaline
pH 8 = alkaline
pH 7 = neutral
pH 6 = slightly acidic
pH 5 = acidic to very acidic
pH 4.5 = very acidic

Does this make sense? Like they say, deviations from the norm are unremarkable and simply suggestive. Anyone with differing opinions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2010 11:30PM by loeve.

I agree with Coco on Wheatgrass Juice. I don't know how to get enough Calories with it, but the Energy is certainly there. King Nebuchadnezzar (in the Bible) lived on Grass for 7 years, and restored his sanity.
Arnold Ehret felt Apples and Raisins (Grapes) combined to make a food that could sustain Life indefinitely.
I remember one Raw Guru (I forget which one) chose Grapes if he had to choose only one food.......WY

Wheatgrass Yogi,
" King Nebuchadnezzar (in the Bible) lived on Grass for 7 years, and restored his sanity. " Where does it describe that? I don't imagine he had access to a good juicer back then!

Grapes seem like a great choice. Certainly they have an abundance of sugars, amino acids, and probably a broad spectrum of nutrients. Does it have all them? If it misses any, can your body make the rest? I have heard someone claim to have lived exclusively on red grapes for 3 years. I can't imagine that, but she said she really thrived on it.

My personal choice would probably be melons, because there are so many varieties of them, and you can get pretty good variability in taste and texture. Grapes when I think about it also come in a number of forms, but for some reason melons seem to have more varieties, but that could just be my personal bias. I just thought of something, there are also grape related products, like grapeseed oil, grape leaves, raisins, and of course wine and vinegar. The last two are probably not too cool to include on an N.H. diet. But can grape leaves be eaten raw?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2010 04:47AM by Mislu.

wheat grass and juice does seem like a good option... and i have heard great things about grapes... though i don't do well with grapes or melons...ah by grape leaves... i love them...

when you say coconut carrot juice should i use the water of the coco or the meat inside... the meat may be too high in fat... i am dealing with gallbladder trouble as well... so i have to stay low fat... but the water inside...hmmm maybe it is time to move to hawaii... and live near some coconut trees... i could just take coco water that is alkaline isn't it...

loeve that is the range of ph that i have found to be right...

love laugh and dream

"when you say coconut carrot juice should i use the water of the coco or the meat inside..."

Here's a recipe for young coconut juice -- [www.carrotjuice.com] I like to drink the water separately, the water in the coconuts I get has a pH of about 6 but is sooo good, any type of coconut can be used though, a mature coconut would make this recipe about 3 servings. I just put a few chunks in with my carrots...

Coconut is supposed to be easier to digest...

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wheatgrass Yogi,
> " King Nebuchadnezzar (in the Bible) lived on
> Grass for 7 years, and restored his sanity. "
> Where does it describe that? I don't imagine he
> had access to a good juicer back then!


if they could make olive oil, they could juice grass! A simple press works very well, I have used the porkert grass juicer with good results (it is very low-tech).

One day when I have the space, lights, and time I'm going to grow flats and flats of wheatgrass and the kids and I will drink gallons of WG/apple juice. I don't love WG on it's own but add a little apple and it's a magical concoction. Bet it would be good with grape too. Little man was asking me just yesterday to plant some grape vines this summer. We don't have enough space in our yard for the garden plot I want and grape vines but a little guerrilla gardening might be in order... I can plant it in the ravine and harvest on our walks, right?


You know, one perfect food for me would have to change throughout the season. What is growing in abundance right then, like the mulberries we gorge ourselves on in the summer. Everything seems to come in it's own time and I'm ready for it when it's ripe. I find my desire for fruit and greens waning in these cold months.

I have put raw grape leaves into my cucumber pickles (wild ferment). I think one can eat them.