If people want to eat some pure, 100% refined product, that is fine with me. However, if they say that this food is a health food, which if fine for them to say, I should be able to point out the flaws in their arguments, without having it called an "attack". Which of us is trying to sell a product, and which of us is saying that you can be healthy without buying a "superfood"?

When fruit is refined to just its sugar, and this refined product is 100% fructose, this is called empty calories. So if you take a coconut, and refine it totally, it must also be empty calories.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When fruit is refined to just its sugar, and this
> refined product is 100% fructose, this is called
> empty calories. So if you take a coconut, and
> refine it totally, it must also be empty calories.
-------------------------------------------------------


I understand where you're coming from, but I could also logically say that because refined fruit (fructose) is an empty-calorie carbohydrate, you can't automatically say that coconut oil is empty, because it's not a carbohydrate. You're assuming that two different food types would act the same, all other things being equal.

Not to mention that there is actually no refinement process involved in making extra-virgin coconut oil, and it's loaded with beneficial fats like caprylic acid, lauric acid, etc., unlike froctuse with has nothing but simple sugars.

When you "extract" a fruit, you get fruit juice, not fructose; and when you "extract" a coconut, you get coconut butter/oil.

The processes involved in commercially refining fructose can't be compared to traditional low-tech coconut oil extraction, and it's the low-tech, extra-virgin pure coconut oil that most raw foodists eat.

narz

I know,... this subject has been coming up for years. This is a RAW board, not a natural hygiene board. I gave up on Bryan years ago. Your right that it is a serious subject, I dont have as much 'free' time as Bryan to post on this board everyday, but if I did I would really focus on awnsering newbie and struggling questions! I just hope people see the many conflicting opinions and think for themselves!!!

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If people want to eat some pure, 100% refined
> product, that is fine with me. However, if they
> say that this food is a health food, which if fine
> for them to say, I should be able to point out the
> flaws in their arguments, without having it called
> an "attack". Which of us is trying to sell a
> product, and which of us is saying that you can
> be healthy without buying a "superfood"?
>
> When fruit is refined to just its sugar, and this
> refined product is 100% fructose, this is called
> empty calories. So if you take a coconut, and
> refine it totally, it must also be empty calories.


Bryan, you really don't know what you are talking about. Coconut oil does contain nutrients as do all cold processed oils. Namely vitamin E, as well as trace minerals. I don't see much difference between squeezing out an oil (fat) or a juice (sugar)?

...even wild animals living wild in nature are not adverse to eating herbs, clays, toxic medicinal plants, salts, (and obviously coconuts)...

Yes, and the coconut oil I use is centrifuged.

Here's some info from the wildernessfamilynaturals.com process on centrifuged coconut oil.


HOW OUR CENTRIFUGED COCONUT OIL IS MADE
Our Centrifuged coconut oil is made from fresh coconuts opened less than 48 hours after they are picked from the trees. They first shell the coconuts and then chop the flesh, placing it in an expeller press. The temperatures of the coconut flesh and the resulting coconut milk emulsion do not exceed 25° C or 78.8° F (room temperature). Once the coconut is shelled, it takes less than 45 minutes to produce the milk. The resulting coconut milk emulsion is then chilled slightly to 10° C (50° F) so that the oil will “pull out of solution.” In other words, the chilling helps to break the protein emulsion that holds the oils in solution. Next, the cooled milk, by use of a large centrifuge, is separated into the pure oil that we sell here and a “skim” coconut milk. This method of extraction requires no heat at all. It works like a cream separator that is used for separating cream from cow’s milk. It requires quite a few passes through this chilled centrifuge to obtain pure oil, but the resulting oil is absolutely fabulous.

Now, how is this refined Bryan? ----- That's what I thought.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

I remember in chemistry using a centrifuge to purify or to separate different elements out of a solution. This centrifugal method of purification, or refinement, is pretty reliable and does a good job of separating out "impurities", or in this case, nutrients. So my answer is it is pretty refined. Not refined would be eating the whole coconut meat, which is not what you are doing.

By the way, in this "unrefined" product you are talking about, how many calories of carbohydrates or proteins are their in 1 tablespoon of the oil. Could it be that the oil is 100% fat? Coconut meat is not 100% fat. Again, this is looking like a refined product to me. But hey, perhaps because I eat some fruit and follow a program of natural health that I must think differently than ordinary folk.

Bryan,

>>hey, perhaps because I eat some fruit and follow a program of natural health that I must think differently than ordinary folk.

I think most here follow a natural health "program" (and eat some fruit)

We do ALL think differently as well.

Why not just eat the coconut. Using a coconut grater [www.gourmetsleuth.com] , you can add some coconut to your smoothies and you would not have to worry about how it was extracted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2006 12:52PM by djatchi.

Yeah! Just Eat the damn coconut! And remember to smile! =)

Wow I would love to know Bryan's resume. A few courses here and there and nobody seems to be able to post a thing without a pronouncement from Bryan. So how about a few qualifications? I am not buying any of it!

I think people don't go to online posts for authoritative commentary, but for shared experience.

I love coconut oil - it has done amazing things for my skin and I look forward to seeing what it and other Mary Enig-Sally Fallon recommended foods will do for my bones.

I would like to know too because some of her statements are unsubstantiated such as b12 generated from the nose

People seem to have a lot of objection to calling coconut oil "empty calories". By empty, I mean devoid of the other nutrients that were once part of the food. In this case, the coconut is first sqeezed, then put through multiple passes of a centifuge until it is a pure oil. If it pure, what happened to all those other nutrients in the coconut that aren't oil? They have all been discarded.

One test for how good a food is for you, as far as how many nutrients are in the food, is how long can you live without problems eating only that food. For example, I'm pretty sure that I can eat only watermelons only for a month. I may be able to do that for 6 months without suffering any nutritional deficiencies. After that, I might start to get demineralized.

However, I don't think I could last more than a week only eating coconut oil. My energy would get low, and I wouldn't be getting my protein or carbohydrate intake. My guess is within a few weeks I would start to notice all kinds of deficiencies and I would start feeling pretty ill.

So what is a more super food in terms of necessary nutrients to thrive, watermelon or coconut oil?

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One test for how good a food is for you, as far as
> how many nutrients are in the food, is how long
> can you live without problems eating only that
> food.

So should we say meat is good for us compared to watermelon or coconut because we can live on that alone for a very long time.

What makes some food important is that it brings to us some nutrient we cannot find any where else easily. Coconut is such a food, it rich in polyphenol. In combination with other food, I will prefer coconut to watermelon.

Unrefined Virgin Coconut Oil helps loss bodyfat..and I usually take two tablespoons myself in the morning...

> Unrefined Virgin Coconut Oil helps loss bodyfat.

Do you have a reputable source to confirm this? What clinical trials have shown this? Have repeatability been demonstrated?

28 g of it has 244 kcals and no minerals, no vitamins except for very small traces of E (nothing to contribute in a meaningful way to your E status), no essential amino acids, and only a very slight trace of 18:2 essential fatty acid (again nothing to contribute in a meaningful way). This is basically empty kcals.

[nutritiondata.com]

It does contain copious quantities of saturated fat, for which the human body has no exogenous requirement. We can make all the fats our bodies need from an adequate intake of the essntial fatty acids.

If there are beneficial phytochemicals, they can also be obtained from the whole coconut, which is considerably more nutritious and less caloric per unit weight.

This is marketing mishmash.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People seem to have a lot of objection to calling
> coconut oil "empty calories". By empty, I mean
> devoid of the other nutrients that were once part
> of the food. In this case, the coconut is first
> sqeezed, then put through multiple passes of a
> centifuge until it is a pure oil. If it pure, what
> happened to all those other nutrients in the
> coconut that aren't oil? They have all been
> discarded.
>
> One test for how good a food is for you, as far as
> how many nutrients are in the food, is how long
> can you live without problems eating only that
> food. For example, I'm pretty sure that I can eat
> only watermelons only for a month. I may be able
> to do that for 6 months without suffering any
> nutritional deficiencies. After that, I might
> start to get demineralized.
>
> However, I don't think I could last more than a
> week only eating coconut oil. My energy would get
> low, and I wouldn't be getting my protein or
> carbohydrate intake. My guess is within a few
> weeks I would start to notice all kinds of
> deficiencies and I would start feeling pretty
> ill.
>
> So what is a more super food in terms of necessary
> nutrients to thrive, watermelon or coconut oil?


Dude, I don't think you really know how extra-virgin traditional coconut oil is actually made. People have been making coconut oil traditionally for hundreds if not thousands of years, long before modern mechanical centrifuges were made.

You're taking a rather odd all or nothing, every nutrient or none aproach to this. Are you saying ginger and turmeric are bad because you can't live on them? And yet they are incredibly healing foods. All you're saying is that you'd last a little longer on watermelon. You certainly couldn't survive long term on it.

Spices are different from coconut oil: they can offer significant protection with minimal calories. No, you can't live on spices alone but they can be a part of a healthy diet. When somebody isolates and markets the protective phytochemicals present in unrefined coconut oil the result will not be significantly different from spices.

i bought some coconut oil once and it made me absolutely ill
my stomach felt soooo sick
and it NEVER feels that way unless something is spoiled

well.. since i read so much good stuff about it
i thought.. hey... maybe it was just an isolated case of rancid oil

i'll try it again
so i got some more
the brand was SPECTRUM

same thing

it made me feel sick

i also ate some raw chocolate that was made with coconut oil
and my stomach hurt

well.. since then
i've been pretty wary of coconut oil

i don't see why we can't just eat the coconut itself
why does it have to be processed?

its processed, put in a jar
and sits on the shelf for who knows how long

i don't like getting things when i can't tell how fresh it is
just eating the fruit or veggie whole
from the first bite
or from just looking at it
you can tell if its alright (considering its organic)

coconut oil is like playing russian roulette
don't know HOW long its been sitting around

i seem to equate ccconut oil with rancidity

i can't help it
once bit, twice shy



there is something to be said about avoiding oils that have been manufactured
rancidity is not a SMALL matter
non rancid seems to be the exception and not the rule

there is also something to be said about the fact that it actually IS far more superior to get your oils from the freshest foods in its whole state
that way, you are ASSURED that it is not rancid

as far as living off of tumeric and ginger
these are not things u wanna do on a REGULAR basis
because they are stimulating

and if u are constantly being stimulated
how can the cells reach a state of homoestasis?

perhaps they are alright in a state of emergency
but everyday doesn't have to be an emergency

as far as asking anyone for their credentials, resume etc.
what's the point?

the AMA ( American Medical Association) is fattily saturated with doctors that have M.D's with credentials up to the ceiling

but do they subscribe to and actually FOLLOW a path of superior health for themselves?

just because one may temporarily feel better
by taking a shot of this or that
does not necessarily mean that taking the road less traveled
and feeling uncomfortable for a while
is something that should be derided

if eating coconut oil makes u feel great, then fine
but don't shoot someone down for pointing out the contrary

its always refreshing to have an opposing point of view
that i can measure and weight towards my own experience

i think bryan does a decent job trying to show the value of what most raw foodists would consider a too "bland" diet

the hygienic path is not for wimps

and it takes a non wimpy person like bryan to hold his ground in a civil manner