I powerlifted and took it pretty serious but it was for fun...like a hobby. Yeah...I worked my ass off to increase my max a couple pounds but that was part of the challenge. Doesn't mean I am a mental defect. My lifting was also partly for job performance. As a police officer I would much rather be a 250 pound muscle head than Matt Manarch. Not trying to insult the guy but he would get broken in half first time he dealt with a big old country redneck with a case of beer in him. Now that I have changed career gears I no longer need that increased size and strength and my interests have shifted so I don't really even enjoy lifting like I used to. I guess what I am saying is people lift weight and build muscles for many different reasons, not all being because the person is screwed up. And to those that don't think a guy with some muscle tone is attractive...I respect that...everyone has different tastes. Just like I think Matt has a very sickly looking body. He may be very healthy but to me he doesn't look like it. It's just my opinion and my perspective.

every DR in the world would disagree with you on it being scar tissue, when you workout to much, muscle RIPS instead of just growing, that area heals over, which does give you more muscle, but its primarily scar tissue, which is weaker than muscle built by less extreme methods, No personal trainer who doesnt have a medical degree is "qualified" to make statements based on the health aspect of it, as its usually an obsession with them as well,their opinions are biased, My info comes straight from not only my personal DR. but dozens of resources and studies he showed me that proved what he was saying back when I was doing all that stuff, interestingly enough, I have far less bulky muscle now, but can lift almost twice as much as I could, less weight, more reps builds stronger muscle as long as the weight isnt TO light, theres a balance between to light and to heavy, to much weight less reps builds primarily scar tissue...Especially if you do what the average heavy weightlifter does, and you dont give your muscles enough time to heal be4 you start torturing them again, the only people who dispute that are people who have made a lifestyle out of crazy amounts of working out, so for someone to tell them that its the least effective way of building usable strength because of the long term damage it causes to their bodies, challenges everything they believe in...so they just say the Dr's must be wrong...

You say its a myth, Dr's say it isnt, I'll go with the Dr's.../

"Tone" as I used it refers to "In physiology, medicine, and anatomy, muscle tone (residual muscle tension or tonus) is the continuous and passive partial contraction of the muscles. It helps maintain posture, and it declines during REM sleep.", not just the muscle to body fat ratio, I do agree that most people use it to refer to that, but thats not what it actually refers to, not from a medical point of view, you can see people like me who dont look heavily muscled anymore, lifting 300 pounds 15 times when im trying to show off, and a guy with arms 4 times as thick as mine cant do anymore than me, cause he only concentrates on building bulk, not tone, and im also faster then him because that tone helps me to physically react faster, which is why I always beat my friend luke in sparring matches, even though he is so much bigger than me and a black belt, and im only blue. more strength, more muscle tone, in a smaller package... Ive been a living proof of the concept...

weight training in general, is really really good for you, its only when you overdo it, as I already stated, that it causes a bunch of severe health problems, in fact as long as a person doesnt overdo it, it actually increases bone and skeletal strength, makes their cardiovascular system stronger, and increases life span, im not saying all heavy lifting is harmful, im pretty sure I already specified I was talking about those who over do it to the point of obsession.

Seriously though, no matter personal beliefs and opinions, you cant dispute that the big body builders aren't even able to do anything for themselves, their muscles are so big, they cant even feed themselves or wipe their own butts, Ive SEEN it in person, MANY times, and it is VERY common, if they where tossed into a survival situation, their strength would do almost nothing for them, as they wouldn't have the dexterity to make use of any even rudimentary tools. (none I knew could even HOLD a fork, let alone get it to their own mouths...)

I didnt say everyone who lifted heavy weights did it cause of some mental defect Nubster, I know I was quite clear it was those who did so to excess, those giant dudes that look more like a mass of alien muscle than a human, not something even close to how you describe your hobby, im talking about the people who eat, breath, and LIVE heavy weights...its all they care about, all they do... like I did for 3 years. people only lift weights obsessively like that if they are screwed up, there are a number of psychiatrists that specialize in such disorders. ^_^

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I think you need to look into what scar tissue is, just because you temporarly micro tear the muscle down doenst mean its replaced with scar tissue. If it was scar tissue you wouldnt able to move your body, id love to know who this doctor is, the thought that it was replaced by scar tissue is another old myth.

The reason some bodybuilders are so big to move is due to the mass amounts of steroids, growth hormones, insulin abuse that they have to endure to go through for there career choice.

any overtraining is bad whether your running constantly or lifting weights to excess, a well designed full body workout with heavy weights if done properly with correct form is perfectly healthy.

lol on your post to nubster, you only get to that freaky size by use of anabolic steroids, you can lift as much heavy weight as you want but your never going to get to that freaky monster size without the use of drugs. What disorder is it, some just like lifting heavy weight and are dedicated to it. So anything anyones dedicated too and has a passion for is now a disorder?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2010 10:36AM by powerlifer.

The guy I saw the other day was just normal big, not freaky big, but he still couldn't put his arms down straight by his sides. They and the sides of his body were too bulky and he looked horrible to me. Comical.

Listen, it's not that I don't like a guy with some muscle tone, that's not it at all. The love of my life is a big dude and I think he's beautiful but he got that way WORKING in construction etc. He does some stretches and a bit of exercising at home to keep his back in shape plus some martial arts for disciple, balance and focus but I doubt he's ever seen the inside of a gym in his life. He's a stone cold fox, believe me. But he was the same one time when he did a big long cleanse and lost tons of weight too, he just looks healthy and terrific all the time. He looks like a guy who works hard, not a guy who works out hard.

I've got another friend, a doctor, he works out all the time and he works hard too, and he used to be a body builder. The difference between their two bodies is so striking, it's funny how different the two of them look. One is so gorgeous to me and the other eww. It's a totally personal thing, we all have a different preferance. Whatever works for you, you should do, never mind what other people like the most.

The worlds strongest seem to find their pursuits fulfilling, the men --



the women --

it is done



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2010 05:40PM by la_veronique.

well, after this post, it makes me wonder:

i mean, women are always complaining how "hard" it is for them to have a certain physique etc. but... after reading this post, it makes me feel that men might actually have it harder

funny, i never thought about that

i only heard a pony tailed guy tell me once how he had this thing where he kept trying to get his arm bigger and bigger and it seemed like his genes weren't cut out for that

i didn't think anything of it at the time. he seemed like a very content and amiable guy.

now i wonder, looking back, if he felt sad on account of it

i'll admit that skinny guys aren't my type ( with an exception or two) but if a skinny guy is very happy within then that is really all that matters ( a friend of mine will go for "only" skinny guys. I can't exactly understand her LOL but hey... to each their own.


matt DOES look happy so hey... more power to him

when people say its not in there genes to get big its usually one of two things, one there not lifting correctly i.e sitting bicep curling all day or two there not eating enough calories to grow.

exactly la_veronique everyone should do there own thing, if you want to be big be big, if you want to be skinny be skinny, do what makes you happy not someone else. Aslong as your staying healthy whats the problem eh.

Healthybun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is what I would like to have. It's clean and
> lean. Just a little bigger arms would be perfect.
>
>''the swimmers physique''


HOW do you get a physique like this ?
I know we need to work out but what food should we eat ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2010 06:31PM by paulieGB.

Curator says:

<< when I was younger, I worked out as a form of self punishment almost, I'm OCD and I got on a serious kick with working out...I stopped cutting myself and started working out instead, at my peak, I did 1000 crunches, 500 situps, 500 reps at 150-300 pounds with my legs depending on how I was feeling, and 300 reps with my arms at 100 pounds, every other day, every day I would jog or run 10 miles, sometimes around 15, very rarely near 20, and twice a week id go to kenpo karate classes, occasionally 3 times if I wasnt to wiped out, then go home, eat, take some ibuprofen, go to sleep, wake up, take another ibuprofen and rub some arnica oil all over myself...eat breakfast,and start over again...

It all stopped when I broke my ankle while sparring and tore some ligaments, it was completely my fault too, I thought id show off, short stocky muscly guy jumping high in the air for a chicken kick to a guys face, is surprising, I had no intention of actually kicking him in the face, as we didnt spar that rough, you can kill somebody if you do that... so I made it really clear I was about to jump, I slowed it down considerably thinking he would just dodge out of the way, he misjudged what I was gonna do, dove straight for me, and I had to pull back to keep from kicking him in the face, and that threw me off balance and I landed really hard on my left foot with my ankle at the wrong angle, and snap! no working out other than some curls and a few other things for the next 6 months, by then I got over the compulsion...

I guess my point is, nobody works out that much without there being something seriously mentally/emotionally wrong with them...I know from personal experience...lol...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's not enough to have lived. We should be determined to live for something. May I suggest that it be creating joy for others, sharing what we have for the betterment of personkind, bringing hope to the lost and love to the lonely."- Leo Buscaglia >>


Two comments:

I think that if you telegraphed enough ( like you said )and he STILL took it the wrong way and wasn't able to discern what you were about to do but then went ahead and DOVE towards you, then ... well, I was just wondering why you felt that it was your responsibility to retract. He misread you and so it should of then just been up to him to learn from it. Granted, its not a fun way to learn.

Secondly, I was wondering what motivated you ( or anyone else for that matter )to kick ABOVE the waist. I must admit that it looks awfully nice in the movies but , as you probably already know, it is a pretty compromising move to do because balance is so easily upset. There are incredible martial artist who are capable of having VERY powerful and swift kicks so that their risk is minimal but to someone who knows what they are doing and knows how to execute it quite well, it is easy to unbalance a person whose kick is that high up in the air.

Also, i like your Leo Buscaglia signature quote. I wonder how to go about bringing joy to others ,however.

I have no clue.

I only know what to do to be happy for myself. Ain't that strange?

I can't predict how other people will react or do or whatever.

I've often wondered about it though. I give up.

Strangely enough, I don't much care anymore about bringing joy to others .I think I'm more concerned with being joyful myself. If this is selfish, then so be it.

la_veronique Wrote:

> Two comments:
>
> I think that if you telegraphed enough ( like you
> said )and he STILL took it the wrong way and
> wasn't able to discern what you were about to do
> but then went ahead and DOVE towards you, then ...
> well, I was just wondering why you felt that it
> was your responsibility to retract. He misread you
> and so it should of then just been up to him to
> learn from it. Granted, its not a fun way to
> learn.
>
> Secondly, I was wondering what motivated you ( or
> anyone else for that matter )to kick ABOVE the
> waist. I must admit that it looks awfully nice in
> the movies but , as you probably already know, it
> is a pretty compromising move to do because
> balance is so easily upset. There are incredible
> martial artist who are capable of having VERY
> powerful and swift kicks so that their risk is
> minimal but to someone who knows what they are
> doing and knows how to execute it quite well, it
> is easy to unbalance a person whose kick is that
> high up in the air.
>
> Also, i like your Leo Buscaglia signature quote. I
> wonder how to go about bringing joy to others
> ,however.
>
> I have no clue.
>
> I only know what to do to be happy for myself.
> Ain't that strange?
>
> I can't predict how other people will react or do
> or whatever.
>
> I've often wondered about it though. I give up.
>
> Strangely enough, I don't much care anymore about
> bringing joy to others .I think I'm more concerned
> with being joyful myself. If this is selfish, then
> so be it.



I retracted because I dont like hurting people, me and him used to spar all the time and where so used to eachother that we could almost never even get a hit in on eachother, he may have "learned" something from it, but I would've ended up hurting him really really bad... we did all sorts of fancy, but not so tactically sound moves during that sparring match, as we where teenagers, and some cute girls where watching us...lol...

I'm glad you liked the quote, I have to say that I dont know of any sure fire way to bring joy to others, but at least, for me, I try to do so by showing them love, and compassion, understanding and acceptance, the kinda things pretty much all of us like to receive from others...and its not always easy to give... people misunderstand often, or worse, they think you have some ulterior motive for caring, and quite often they just cut you out of their lives thinking your just trying to manipulate them somehow, instead of waiting to see if any ulterior motive actually ever pops up... its an uphill battle, it seldom ever works out well for you, and can hurt you considerably... Im just figuring out now that if I want to continue trying to live my life this way, but dont want to continue being hurt, I need to learn how to not feel disappointed or hurt when they dont reciprocate, or worse, when they do, with suspicion or even in some cases hate... but at least for me, I've never felt more happy/joyful in my life than when I succeed at bringing joy to others... sometimes something as simple as being joyful, is enough to bring joy to others, whatever works for you.



@powerlifter there are a number of studies showing that the ability to grow muscle can be quite different from person to person, there is much genetic diversity in the human race, and the ability to build muscle is one of those things that can vary greatly...Im not talking about micro tears, im talking about the serious tearing that happens when somebody works far past the point of a "micro tear" google around for a bit...or take some biology classes at your local college like I did, Another place besides my Dr. (Dr. Hawthorne,dont remember his first name, Shelly Gamache, after Hawthorne died in a rafting accident) where they confirmed this supposed "myth" that overworking your muscles causes scar tissue to form that is far weaker than true muscle, Also, not all men that big are steroid users, I knew a few that did nothing but workout every moment they weren't eating @#$%& or sleeping...I did that myself for a few years...and never touched steroids... I also already said that its healthy for you if done right, if a person doesn't go way overboard, but if your not willing to actually research and ask Dr.s yourself about this, or at least take some college classes so you can learn about the stuff yourself instead of just taking the word of other weightlifters online and at your local gym... then we will have to agree to disagree, But Ive been around ALLOT of heavy weight lifters that REALLY over did things, and ones who didnt, and the one thing they all the ones who really over did it had in common, is they where all batshit crazy...not just passionate, they where out there in the land of obsession, and there is a BIG difference between passion and obsession, just ask anybody thats had a stalker,lol...or any psychologist.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Billy Blanks Taebo tapes sometimes call for a set of 8 chicken kicks which is enough - whew! calling for maximal effort driving up the leading knee then planting leaping and kicking with the opposite foot. The first karate kid movie employed that move as the knockout punch, even after maximal telegraphing


These young guys are showing off the move and Annie, the "sparring" partner is trying not to make any sudden moves --

[www.youtube.com]

hehe, cool video... yeah 8-10 was about how many we would do on one pass down the mat, then we would turn around and go back the other way, dozens, and dozens, and dozens, and dozens, and dozens of times... I gave up trying to keep count, but on the saturday morning classes we would usually do them for about an hour, they werent the first thing we did though, we warmed up allot with some easier stuff first, a really simple thing that can help raise your upper thigh strength ALLOT is the Horse stance, ANYONE with knees that are in good condition can do this, and it works sooo good, dont feel bad if you look it up and try it out and can only handle a few minutes, its very very tiring at first, a few minutes is average, eventually you can get crazy good at it, my record was 3 hours, then as soon as that timer hit 3 hours, I just fell over panting and put some arnica oil on my legs,LOL... my sensei Ram could go for over 5 hours, and he is in his lat 70's...well, he cant anymoer, he's been rather sick the last year or two...... I loved horse stance though, when I could do it, because its like meditating while getting a workout...im thinking of trying out yoga for that same reason...

hey curator

thanks for the explanation.. that's funny that u said some cute girls were watching LOL yeah, it does make sense.. Any serious injury during sparring is not a good thing. Save the body for when you REALLY need to use it... like when some wacko is on a train trying to hurt you or others. You don't want to be limping around then... because you injured yourself during sparring.

concerning the other thing you said about "joy" etc.

i think you're right that its not easy to help others esp. if they think that you are trying to manipulate ... etc.

these days, i don't try to help anyone unless they ask me ( and still... i don't feel like helping them LOL or... if i have any "advise" or whatever... i'll ASK them first something like:


" Hey... you've been telling me your problems for 3 hours straight. Do you want my advice or not?"

And, if they say yes... then , its all on them.

If they say "no"... then... I'm even MORE relieved LOL

You're right... i think that for me to help others... i gotta be in a place where i don't expect reciprocation as well. Otherwise, it IS manipulation. That's not an easy place to be... well, depending on how close they are to you etc. so, i just do myself a favor and mostly stay out of other people's way.

I don't know if that is right or wrong. I'm flexible though.. and still learning. Besides... It's FUN! and I don't take anything too seriously.

5 hours is a whole heck of a LOT of time to be in a horse stance position. that is some SERIOUS standing... whew!

i think the pain would be too distracting for me to "meditate" LOL

yeah, I dont even practice martial arts anymore, I mean there are a few exercises I have kept doing, but Ive kinda lost my taste for violence...even the friendly kind like sparring with your friends... I first started losing it when I ended up hurting a guy really bad when him and his friends attacked me, and I lost it completely when a guy I used to train with went crazy while on some drugs recently and...well, he killed and mutilated another friend of mine... So I dont practice techniques anymore from Kenpo karate, as they all include severely hurting some one...

I wasnt talking specifically about helping people, I tend to take about the same tactic when it comes for offering help to others, I wait till they ask, or ask them if they want my opinion... I was really talking more about just being good to others, showing them love and respect, showing interest in them and their life, and some times doing or saying little things here or there to help make their day a little brighter... it feels nice, but its hard to not feel disappointed when they reciprocate with the opposite...which seems to happen more often than not, the average person reacts based on the thought that there must be something you want from them, and that your manipulating them to get it... and true, I would prefer to have them treat me the same way I treat them... but im happy as long as they arent being abusive towards me... on average, women tend to think im being nice cause i want to have sex with them, even though im always completely clear and 100% honest about my intentions...I think only 2 people Ive ever met in my life have ever actually believed me,lol... guys tend to either think that your gay, or that your full of crap and just trying to, and I quote, "make yourself out to be a better person than you are." usually when they actually say something along those lines to me, I just tell them, that I dont believe im a "good" person, im just a guy that has made allot of mistakes in his life, and is finally trying to do what he feels is right, and that who you are, is who you choose to be.

yeah, 5 hours was supposedly nothing compared to what he used to do when he was younger, his wife be4 she died had told me allot of stories of his youth, and apparently he had stayed in a REALLY low horse stance for over 24 hours once... and then layed down for a few days...lol... I barely moved for 2-3 days after doing it for just 3 hours (that story is what initially inspired me to train and see how long I could do it for,lol) the pain is just extra stuff to lose when you reach the point of dropping off...although it is extremely distracting,lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

24 hours horse stance??...!!! okay... i need like 24 hours to just wrap my head around that LOL

i PM'ed you (2) about the natural shampoo etc.

K, yeah, he was crazy when he was younger,lol...still is, but in an awesome way lol

The horse stance is another Billy Blanks excercise and it puts untrained people on his videos into profuse sweating and agony after about 60 seconds. It took a long time for me to develope those muscles so I can comfortably hold it for a minute, which by the way impressed a kick boxing aerobics instructor at the gym. To hold the stance for hours is amazing.

Nubster wrote


I powerlifted and took it pretty serious but it was for fun...like a hobby. Yeah...I worked my ass off to increase my max a couple pounds but that was part of the challenge. Doesn't mean I am a mental defect. My lifting was also partly for job performance. As a police officer I would much rather be a 250 pound muscle head than Matt Manarch. Not trying to insult the guy but he would get broken in half first time he dealt with a big old country redneck with a case of beer in him. Now that I have changed career gears I no longer need that increased size and strength and my interests have shifted so I don't really even enjoy lifting like I used to. I guess what I am saying is people lift weight and build muscles for many different reasons, not all being because the person is screwed up. And to those that don't think a guy with some muscle tone is attractive...I respect that...everyone has different tastes. Just like I think Matt has a very sickly looking body. He may be very healthy but to me he doesn't look like it. It's just my opinion and my perspective.

I'm sure you did have to be strong to be a police officer on occasions but I would like to make a point about this. My partner is a small, slim, light guy - he has worked on the gates at hard core festivals for years - he can calm a really heavy threatening situation down because he is small and he is really cool and offers no violence. He's tough but he's peaceful and if you can keep the monster muscled 'security' guys out of the situation nothing kicks off - you know what I mean!!!!

I can't believe you think matt looks sickly - he looks like a man should in my opinion - as does that other photo of that swimmer guy. When a bloke can't put his arms by his sides it looks seriously grotesque.

Running or cycling or swimming seem like real things to do - but lifting weights in a gym - why? it isn't transport, I'm sorry but to me it does just seem like a vanity - the male cat walk? I don't mean this to be offensive - please don't anybody take it like that - I just don't understand it. I've never known anyone that lifts weights to the extremes that some of you guys obviously do and maybe if I had I would understand it better.

I dont workout that much anymore, I workout at home, and far far less than I used to, lately its been mostly from boredom too,lol, the strenuous physical activity can help you get things out a bit too...

George Foreman could take a punch. He's built for it, one of those naturally large sturdy individuals. I was inspired by his comeback at the age of 45 to become the oldest heavy-weight boxer ever, and read his book (though didn't go for his grill . He did a 40 day water fast, worked out clearing brush (he's schooled in forestry) and no doubt trained a lot to acheive his goal of winning the title, taking home the prize money and helping youth with programs to help get them off the street.

I was asked recently how do I keep that youthful figure. I excercise.



George Foreman
[search.aol.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2010 10:13AM by loeve.

He is certainly an impressive figure. I wouldn't want him putting those arms around me though. I'll admire him from a distance .

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nubster wrote
>
>
> I powerlifted and took it pretty serious but it
> was for fun...like a hobby. Yeah...I worked my ass
> off to increase my max a couple pounds but that
> was part of the challenge. Doesn't mean I am a
> mental defect. My lifting was also partly for job
> performance. As a police officer I would much
> rather be a 250 pound muscle head than Matt
> Manarch. Not trying to insult the guy but he would
> get broken in half first time he dealt with a big
> old country redneck with a case of beer in him.
> Now that I have changed career gears I no longer
> need that increased size and strength and my
> interests have shifted so I don't really even
> enjoy lifting like I used to. I guess what I am
> saying is people lift weight and build muscles for
> many different reasons, not all being because the
> person is screwed up. And to those that don't
> think a guy with some muscle tone is
> attractive...I respect that...everyone has
> different tastes. Just like I think Matt has a
> very sickly looking body. He may be very healthy
> but to me he doesn't look like it. It's just my
> opinion and my perspective.
>
> I'm sure you did have to be strong to be a police
> officer on occasions but I would like to make a
> point about this. My partner is a small, slim,
> light guy - he has worked on the gates at hard
> core festivals for years - he can calm a really
> heavy threatening situation down because he is
> small and he is really cool and offers no
> violence. He's tough but he's peaceful and if you
> can keep the monster muscled 'security' guys out
> of the situation nothing kicks off - you know what
> I mean!!!!
>
> I can't believe you think matt looks sickly - he
> looks like a man should in my opinion - as does
> that other photo of that swimmer guy. When a
> bloke can't put his arms by his sides it looks
> seriously grotesque.
>
> Running or cycling or swimming seem like real
> things to do - but lifting weights in a gym - why?
> it isn't transport, I'm sorry but to me it does
> just seem like a vanity - the male cat walk? I
> don't mean this to be offensive - please don't
> anybody take it like that - I just don't
> understand it. I've never known anyone that lifts
> weights to the extremes that some of you guys
> obviously do and maybe if I had I would understand
> it better.


I agree that verbal judo is the best way to defuse a situation and 99% of the time I am able to do that. Many of the cases I think my size helped. People will step up to the plate because I am an imposing person and see if I am willing to back it up. When they see that I am going to back it up, most of the time they back down knowing that if they do decide to get physical they are going to be on the loosing end. Of course there is that rare one that is too intoxicated or stupid to know when to stop and of course I am forced to take care of the situation. As far as the little guys being better in these situations, maybe, but in my experience the dirtballs tended to test the smaller officers much more often. I have had to "rescue" my smaller co-workers on a number of occasions. So in some cases they might be able to talk things down a little better but if the stuff hits the fan they will wish they had a little more ass behind them. For my profession I would never trade in size and strength for anything.

As far as weight lifting...for some it is vanity. For many like myself it was first and foremost for survival and secondly just something I enjoyed doing. I lifted for strength and with that came size. I did not train specifically for size. So even though I was/am big and that gets some attention now and then, what I was doing was not for vanity. For me to really show off the results of my work you would have to come to the gym with me so it really wasn't for all to see like the guys and gals that train just for looking better.

And for Matt, yeah, personal opinions I guess. I think he looks too skinny and weak which to me is opposite what a man should be. I am not saying he has to be 200 pounds or more with hulking muscles but he also should not have the muscle of a 12 year old school girl. The picture of the swimmer guy is not bad. Not bulked up but there is definitely muscle tone and the appearance of some strength. I know a lot of cyclist (I am a mountain biker myself) and many of them are thin but have good physiques, especially the legs as you would expect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2010 06:12PM by Nubster.

I dunno, I think your perception is kind of skewed. I didn't look like him at 12, not even close. I don't have his muscle mass now at 38 either. He doesn't look like a girl or girly, unless you live on some other planet with enormous muscley women.

Well if the women around me are built anything like him, they are FAR from enormous or muscley.

Hey, why pick just one body type?
Can't there be appreciation for lots of different body types?
For example, I find big men with strength and muscle fascinating,
but I also like the quickness and agility of more wiry types.

Actually, it disturbs me a bit for people to have an ideal...
because people can only change how they look so much.
And if we're talking about ideal female physique,
I'd not be in the running.
(Yep, my chest is about like a 12 year old boy too.)

I guess if there is not consensus on valuing ALL types,
it is good at least that different people value different types.
I'm grateful that there is such variety in people.


My favorite raw vegan

Two features I find most captivating in a man are his eyes and his voice.

I wonder whether a man trying to get larger is more a response to the desire to dominate other men, rather than to appear more attractive to women.

I read some research that suggested that women opt for different male type depending on their cycle. Outside their ovulation time, they appear to go for a male that would make a better father and long-term partner. So, when you ask a question like this, you may be getting two different types of answers.

In direct response to the question, beyond all intellectualism, I find the exhibit 3 rather off-putting. Exhibit 2 has got a lovely face, but the body looks a bit like that of a meat-eater somehow, which I find a bit off-putting too. Exhibit 1 is a real-human being, currently alive, and so I would find it rude to comment.

I think any man who looks after himself can be a sex-god. Lean is good. Exercise is good. But above all, the most sexy part of male anatomy is his soul, which shines through his eyes. It's the eyes...


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We're still looking at male models, young, thin or ripped ("no body fat" ) with variations in musculature and purhaps bone frame size and genetic tendencies to be one way or another. The OP's questions are --

1) "what is the ideal male physique ?"

2) "the question is ( if you're a man ) which one would you rather look like ?"

3) "and if you're a woman - which one would you rather go on a date with ?"

..so we have 3 direct questions and then all sorts of issues that have been raised during the thread.

For me there is no ideal physique unless talking about what function it's being asked to perform of which there are endless possibilities.

As a man I'd gravitate towards Matt or David since I need some strength (Matt looks fit to me) to manage my lifestyle and lean-ness to get through the day so not to be slowed down. That doesn't mean I don't value a "David" who is not in the same place. David the warrior killed his enemies as did David the king though age brought him wisdom. The eyes of an older wiser but less physically capable warrior/king might be the same or even more fine...


modelshopped "David"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2010 10:09AM by loeve.

OMG Would You Please Stop Posting That Horrid Image Already?! It's putting off my food. Gah.

Oh, I know what I like to look at from a strictly visual point of view but like I said, I dated a big muscley guy (though not a big worked out muscley guy, just a guy who worked hard and it showed) and I dated a man who was a bit shorter than me and could fit into my clothes and shoes (my pants were big on his little butt actually, ha!). Whatever, it was the man that I loved and his body that became my ideal at that time. If every dude who looked good to me was a perfect match and every dude who didn't fit the model wasn't it would be far easier to choose a mate. That might take all the fun out of the matter though...