Hello
I've read all the posts there are on shampoo washing techniques in an attempt to be more natural & have healthier hair.

Currently I've been using the no poo method. I've been washing my hair using baking soda with water/rinsing then using apple cider vinegar/rinsing and then a dab of coconut oil. I've been washing my hair about every other day with this method & have noticed my hair is more dry & brittle. I'm reluctant to go back to shampoo & conditioner because it obviously isn't going to improve my hair.

I take it that the no poo method should be done at a minimum of 2 or once a week. There's been no ruler set for how often you should wash with this method. I work out alot and the salty sweat collecting in my hair can't do it much good. So I wash it. Thus my hair is getting dry & brittle. I do use a teaspoon of baking soda with a cup of water & only scrub my scalp. Nonetheless my hair looks a mess.

I'm not sure where else to turn except the conditioner wash method. I can do this for most of the washes & do the no poo method only once in a while. The confusing thing about conditioners is what makes them healthy.

This is the list of ingredient on one recommended conditioner:
Suave Daily Clarifying Conditioner
This conditioner claims to help clarify hair of harmful substances, including chlorine. It contains water (aqua), cetyl alcohol, cetrimonium chloride, potassium chloride, distearyldimonium chloride, fragrance (parfum), disodium EDTA, DMDM hydantoin, PVP, methylchloroisothiazolinone and methylisothiazolinone.

Can you recommend a conditioner for the conditioner wash method.
thanks

Try the health food store, all the drug store brands will have crap in them. You could also use a hot oil treatment now and then and there are recipes out there for making your own conditioning treatments at home. I hear rain water is good to rinse with and flat beer. If you want to keep doing the no-poo just keep trying things until you find something that works great for you .

The typical reason why hair gets flyaway and brittle is that it's being stripped of its natural emollients. Baking soda and cider vinegar are natural, but in combo quite caustic. I would use the apple cider vineger once or twice a week as a conditioning treatment, but not as a substitute for shampoo.

Some people who have been raw for a long time, and others who aren't raw(like rock star/lecturer Andrew W.K.) claim that once you stop shampooing, your hair adjusts and comes clean with just a vigorous warm water rinse and scalp massage every few days. I don't know about that. I am currently using Desert Essence Organics[Lemon and Tea Tree Oil] shampoo, and it really has stabilized my scalp. It cleans my hair without stripping it and my hair stays clean, even with activity, for a couple of days without needing to be washed. I should mention that I'm a chick with hair about down to her waist, so it's a relief to not have to wash it daily and to be able to comb it out easily because it remains naturally conditioned.

I have also use diluted Dr. Bronner's liquid[Baby Mild]soap in the past with equal success. I would never use conventional hair care/cosmetic products now that I see improved results/better health with products from the health food store.

i use dr bronners, and i always dilute it about 3:1 anyway with water. works great on hair. and aftr shower i just put a oil in or something.

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

I use Edgar Cayce's Glyco Thymoline (1/3) mixed with Hair Conditioner (2/3) as my shampoo. I stopped using poo about 3 months ago. Hair is soft and manageable, and doesn't need any more conditioning. Hair can be washed daily using this method if need be, but will still look good for 4-5 days.

Janabanana,

Where did you get the Glyco Thymoline?

i havent being using shampoo or conditioner for over 6 monthts now, inititiall there was a few weeks of greasiness but i kept using a handfull of cornstarch and brushing it through and the oil has definitely self regulated now, my hair is always soft and shiny looking just with regular brushing and rinsing off daily with just water in the shower

i used to get thru a 10$ set shampoo/conditioner every 2 weeks easy. I am glad i liberated that $240 a year for other things

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

This is embarrassing--I couldn't figure out why you guys kept saying 'poo' and figured that there was some waste product in the hair soap! I should probably stop washing my hair very much. I only use natural products but many of them strip my hair. I have been pleasantly surprised by Kiss My Face and their moisturizing shampoo. But my hair actually looks better when I don't wash it every other day. It's just hard to forgo it when you are washing your body.

I use Keys products keys-soap.com everything is 100% natural and the conditioner is fabulous. Personally I like to wash my hair perhaps 2x week and smell fresh and clean

Brit1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally I like to wash my hair perhaps 2x week
> and smell fresh and clean

I can't help but think you mean that any less washing is not fresh and clean. I personally have no issue with a body's natural scent, to me it's neither dirty nor whatever the opposite of fresh would be in this case. I think skin and hair smell good, especially that of a vegetarian. I dislike scents on people, laundry soap, deodorant, hair product, etc. Lately I don't even want to wear any essential oils, I find it distracting and not as pleasant as I used to.
To each their own .

On amazon. I know it sounds weird to use mouthwash and conditioner to wash your hair, but it works, makes hair soft and shiny. Cayce recommended the mouth wash internally as well so it can't be too toxic. You can use cheap conditioner such as Aussie brand.

[www.amazon.com]

hey jgunn

can you explicate the thing with the cornstarch?

i am interested

jananabanana

can you explain further what this product is and why you chose it for your hair?
there must be some reason to it

i used dr bronner for my hair once.. the soap thing but it was kind of drying

well.. i guess that is what the conditioner is for

can anyone recommend a good conditioner that is not so expensive?

i used to spend a LOT of money on these all herbal, all organic healthy natural conditioners... up to 9 bucks ( almost ten bucks if you add tax) a bottle and not very much in it... then thought it would be best to find something more natural but not 9 bucks. and my hair would get used to it so it built up a residual as well.


tamukha

i will try the baby mild version of bronner's soap because i felt the other peppermint soap was kind of drying

i got major long hair too

i don't know about you but if i DON'T use conditioner, my hair is one MIGHTY wreck... long hair is unruly even if its straight. shampoo alone doesnt quite cut it. its like.. after i dry it, i feel like its an attractor for major static

if i put in conditioner, everything is fine

but like i said, it seemed like there were two choices out there

1) horrible, chemical laden conditioners that were cheap

2) horribly expensive healthy conditioners that didn't contain much anyhow

i'm very much interested in home made conditioner or something cheap but nice volume ( like Dr. Bronners') and healthy ingredients

any takers?

help me out , all you geniuses!! would that be genii in latin? ( plural)

la_veronique,

I am cursed with hair that is very fine in the strand but abundant, and wavy rather than curly or straight. Left to its own devices, it twists into a kelp-like formation that becomes an approximation of dreads in a matter of days, if not brushed. I have found that since I started using the Dessert Essence Organics shampoo, and washing only twice or three times a week(soaping mostly just my scalp), my hair stays clean and I can actually brush it out no problem. I should mention that I usually only air dry my hair, and I brush it using my fingers followed by a wide tooth detangling comb, never a brush. I am considering getting this comb, as I think it would be an improvement on even the Lucite non tangling comb I currently use:
[www.isabellacatalog.com]

I have found through trial and error that when I wash my hair with a natural product, infrequently, and air dry it, it is healthier and easier to deal with--it doesn't get brittle, it doesn't get tangled, it doesn't need to be conditioned(I have never found this helpful, no matter what the length of me hair was), I don't get dandruff. IMO, it's a matter of getting your hair to take care of itself and this occurs with less rather than more fussing. So Dr. Bronner's milder soaps, diluted, as RAWLION recs, would be fine, I should think. I have this suspicion that, as with this increasing spate of topical skin disorders, hair and scalp problems might be largely the result of overcleansing. You strip the acid mantle from your skin, things go awry. The scalp/hair should be no different.


Janabanana,

OK, so it is the mouthwash; I thought there might be some other, secret Glyco Thymoline product out there. Thanks for the link!

Hello Saetian, and all,

I have been a no-pooer going on three years now. I am black (African American), and have naturally curly hair. My hair also tends to be dry, and I color it, so it already has a lot of stuff going on with it. I haven't used poo, or any other soap since 2007. I have used only conditioner to wash my hair. After much research, I found that most contitioners contain the same lathering agent as shampoo, in smaller quantities, so washing your hair with conditioner IS washing your hair. I've read in research that even people with oily hair can be a conditioner-only (coo) washer, too, without concern of oil build-up. I'm not sure of this, since I can't claim personal experience.

In my vast experience with product, I've found what works best for ME is either Aussie Moist (the best) or Suave Humectant (close second). I've also used a conditioner called Everyday Shea (free-trade certified shea butter). I found that to be a little too drying for my hair, and so might work well for someone who is concerned that coo washing might leave hair heavy and oily.

There is also a product on the market made by a stylist, but I so far have resisted purchasing it; it's expensive, and it's sold in a "club," where you have to sign up for three months or something like that, and renew if you like the product. I'm not going to make that kind of purchase when I can get essentially the same product in a drug store. I mention it because I think the products are "all natural," whatever that might mean anymore, if anyone is interested in searching for it.

That's it for my experience. Hope that helps.

Gata

LaV using cornstarch is similar to the dry shampoo they use in hospitals , you just fill up a shaker like you would use for dry parmesan cheese and shake over the scalp while brushing through the ends , i would do this sitting on the edge of the tub so the powder would drop in the tub and can be washed away

i have superfine supercrazy curly hair and my always nice and clean and soft feeling. i also use a small amount of almond oil rubbed into palms and smoothed thru hair ends to keep the frizz down

i think the japanese used rice flour in a similar fashion



...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2010 03:36PM by Jgunn.

Jodi, you just described my hair! Super fine, super curly, it's fluffy and dry and can frizz so easily. Tell me more about this corn starch/rice flour method, how often you do it, does it clean your scalp? And geez girl, how do you comb your hair when it's dry? I can only do it with a wet brush or when my hair is wet and full of conditioner. The results of combing or brushing my hair dry are hilarious and not exactly managable if you KWIM

I haven't used anything but water for the past 10 years or so....my hair is between 2 and 3 inches long, and I just rub my head in the shower with one of those 69 cent pocket brushes made for crewcuts (oval plastic thing with short hard "bristles". Works great -- feels good and clean.

Glyco Thymoline cleans the teeth, mouth, skin to a refreshing clean while seemingly not upsetting the pH or integrity of the tissue. It contains water, glycerin, alcohol 37, sodium borate, sodium benzoate, sodium bicarbonate, carime, sodium saliclate, eucalyptol, menthol, pine oil, thymol and methyl salicylate.

I just had a bottle that I don't use and I wanted to make a non-poo hair cleaner so I experimented...the experiment worked. 1/3 GT to 2/3 conditioner.

Those don't sound like happy ingredients to me, particularly the sodium benzoate.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those don't sound like happy ingredients to me,
> particularly the sodium benzoate.

I recently started using an organic shampoo and conditioner, that felt very moisturising when I was using it but has given me hard dry skin around my temples and parting I'm pretty sure the sodium benzoate did it. Grrr.

la_veronique, I have a recipe for a natural conditioner I've been using for a few months that has made my hair super soft and shiny, if youd like me to PM it to you I can, but I warn, its not vegan friendly.

coco my hair some days when i wake up in the morning looks like that little troll you put on the end of the pencil and spin i think you know what i mean

the corn starch or rice flour cleans the scalp because it is super SUPER absorbent so when you shake it on and brush it in .. it absorbs the excess oil and dirt and brushes off into the tub

the almond or hemp oil gives the frizzies some tameablity

i pick my hair out with a pick when wet then i use a flat square paddle brush with LONG natural bristles and it works thruou my hair just great dry as long as i brush it at least twice a day

otherwise my hair goes jamacian and wants to rasta like its 1999 withen 48 hours

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

What I will do on occasion is "shampoo" with Calcium Bent. Clay. When I was first experimenting with clay masks, I would apply it liberally to my face/neck/chest area, & I figured why stop there?

So, I mixed it a bit thinner to be able to work it into my hair; Rinse it all off in the shower after 20-30 min. or so. It leaves my hair with a lot more body, kinda wavy, as my hair is normally straight/flat.

It is much easier to comb through after this treatment, and I can go for many days without shampooing again. Of course, it doesn't have a "perfumey" scent to it of any type, so for those of you who that sort of thing is important to would have to take other measures...

hey tamukhs

i looked up the desert essence shampoo thing ( specifically the raspberry thing)
i checked out the ingredients
felt too lazy to look up the 3 or 4 ( or more) suspicious looking chemicals
but knowing you
you probably already looked up all those eye brow raising ingredients
and could give me a break down of what is what

gimme the full report
lOl

jgunn

so... no water at all while you are brushing the corn starch in?
just wondering.. ummm... how can i be assured that it won't stay in my hair and make me look like something was snowing inside of it LOL

my hair is straight .. it is full but not overly so... it is not wispy or thin
it just gets tangly if i dont put conditioner in it

its not curly at all

in fact, i use a hair curler to give it some style like farrah fawcetty ... kind of.. sort of... well... not exaaactly... i can't understand how she had so many different cuts in her hair to make it look so wispy and windblown

i know the heat is "baaaaaaad" for it

but i figure.. who cares? i have so much hair anyhow
and it keeps growing out as i speak sooooo...

no loss there

also if i don't curl it
then it kind of gets in my face
some days i just put a barette in my hair

anyone else use barettes?
i used to have a lot more barettes
but then i got rid of them

now i just have a few
and they aren'tn that stylish or anything
kind of plain

cuz i dont want to draw attention to the barettes
though i must admit
i do like the glittery ones with the little flowers at the end
i used to have one barette that was like a bobby pin but it had this beautiful small ( like the size of a dime) blue glittery flower with a pink center

i just LOOOOOVED that barette
and would wear it all the time
now i don't even know where it went

so saaad


juicerkatz

that's interesting u use clay
i can see the logic
it must however make a MESS in your shower tub LOL

or at least take forever to drain


hey curator

hit me up with the recipe anyhow
i am sure i could modify it
i PM'ed you the same message

thankss!
i could use some help
ev'ry bit of info is welcome

la_veronique- every post of yours sounds like a haiku or a poem, the way you break your sentences/paragraphs apart makes me smile!

HA HA!!! yer funny suspendedindefinetely

i've seen poems/haikus a HECKKK of a lot ( like exponentially) higher in quality

but hey.. .since i'm in an EXCELLENT mood

i accept your compliment LOL

thank yaa!

la_veronique,

Don't know what's in the raspberry, but if it's from the same line as the Lemon and Tea Tree Oil one I use, then it is:paraben/sodium lauryl/sodium sulfate/pthalate/EDTA/silicone/petroleu m/glycol/phosphate-free[whew, that took a lot out of me!]. It is biodegradable, and is basically coconut and vegetable oils as cleansers, and mineral salts, and plain old salt salt, as a preservative. And the package is recycleable, at least where I live.

Speaking of plant oil and sugar based shampoos, I HAVE tried the Dr. Bronner's Shikakai Liquid Soap as a shampoo(it's too dear for a hand soap, IMO); for shampoo is one of its recommended uses. I used the heavenly scented Lemongrass Lime one, and while it worked really well to clean my hair(I suspect it is identical to what LaGata mentions, above), because it was a sugar derivative, it didn't seem to rinse very well. Now, I have stated that my hair is very long and fine, so this is the likely reason for that. I'm sure that short hair would rinse clean of the Shikakai soap, so I'd recommend that for short haired people that want a totally natural shampoo.

Sodium benzoate is a type of salt that may occur naturally in some foods but is more likely to be chemically produced and added as a preservative to foods. When used as a preservative, sodium benzoate is typically added to foods in small amounts only. If too much is added, food may take on a very bitter taste.

The reason you will note sodium benzoate listed in the ingredients of so many foods is because it works very well at killing bacteria, yeast and fungi. You will most commonly see it used as a preservative in foods with a high acid content, since sodium benzoate will only work when the pH balance of foods is less than 3.6. It is therefore effective in most sodas, vinegar, fruit juice, and in mixed ingredients like salad dressing. It is additionally used to stop the fermentation process in wines.

Sodium benzoate naturally occurs in several fruits like apples, plums and cranberries. A few sweet spices contain small amounts of sodium benzoate, including cloves and cinnamon. The presence of sodium benzoate in these foods does not necessarily act to preserve them.

You may be able to taste sodium benzoate in foods to which it is added — approximately 75% of people can taste it. People who can taste sodium benzoate can describe it in different ways. Some call it bitter or salty while others think the taste is more on the sweet side. Since many of us drink soft drinks on a regular basis, we are fairly used to tasting this preservative and generally think nothing of it.

There have been some health concerns about the combination of sodium benzoate and ascorbic acid or vitamin C. When the two are mixed, they can form the chemical benzene, which is carcinogenic. However, sodium benzoate on its own is not considered a carcinogen, and you would have to consume a huge amount of it in order to have toxic levels in your body. In mice studies where the animals were fed sodium benzoate, no adverse effects were reported, and the mice’s life expectancies were not shortened, nor was their health affected in any way.

LaV , no water at all that is correct , i seem to brush enough or all of it out without any snowy effect , at least nobody has said anthing and i havent noticed LOL

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Sodium lauryl sulphate, sodium benzoate, not things I will comsume or use on my body.
I'll try the corn starch though, and the bentonite clay. ACV rinse is nice for skin and works well for my hair type.
I'm going to make that shampoo with soapwort root eventually though.