For sure, check out Robert Cheeke's new vegan bodybuilding and fitness book at www.veganbodybuilding.com

Im not into lifting but am into cycling and marathon running. Im currently racing Div 1 on the road bike here in Queensland Australia.

Getting over 3500cals a day from sweet fruit is key for me in keeping my energy and fuel ready to deliver.

There are quite a few raw fitness people out there, richard blackman is a great big muscley guy and he only eats fruit, in fact I hear he's aiming for only consuming orange juice. It seems to be working for him if appearance is anything to go by. Big guy, lots of energy.

It's funny how different peoples ideas of what big and muscley is. I looked at pictures of both of those guys and yes...they look great and seem to be in great shape and I would be happy to look like either of them, but in my opinion neither is close to being big. But then again, I come from a power lifting background where guys weighing 250+ pounds is the norm. Looking at those two it at least confirms you can have a great body with good musculature and be strong but you are not going to be a mountain of a man, if that is important to you. It used to be to me but not so much anymore.

there are some other pretty big guys in the profile section, most not nearly as big as guys I used to workout with, but there are some that are kinda close...

This is me...it is hard to get a real perspective of how big I was in this photo but I was about 280 pounds. My arms were 20" around, my chest 56", my shoulders 61", and I still have that shirt...it is a 3XL. I am 6'2".

there are some guys on that site in the profiles section, that look allot bigger... although once again, hard to get perspective since its just a photo, but they are pretty crazy ripped... yeah, most the guys I used to workout with where around your size, a couple where allot bigger... some much smaller... so at least with you and your description, I think i have a pretty good perspective of what you where compared to others I knew...

This is totally off topic but kinda funny...I know this guy that is an avid weight lifter. If you saw a picture of him you would think he was a monster of a man and that his arms must be 24" and his chest 60" and he was just a freak. Truth is, the guy is really short...like 5'4" and his measurements are really small but just because of his height it really exaggerates how big he looks. That also holds true with many of the pro body builders that are nothing but chemical warehouses. You know, the guys at Mr. Olympia, ect. If you get stats on most of them, they are 5'5", 5'6". A 6 footer is TALL in the pro body building world. But then you get the occasional freak like Ronnie Coleman who I think is 6'2".

This is something I'm gonna find out the old fashioned way. I have a serfiously large build. 6'4", I started in september on raw food at 440 pounds. Keep in mind I was still very active, very strong. I have a very large frame so the 440 was just starting to be too much. I weigh in at about 300 now, and I am super active, I ride my bike a LOT! But i am interested in muscles and power like you are, so I want to join a gym to actually lift. I do some light toning, but I need to get in the gym with a partner. My goal is to be on the lou ferrigno level. He and I are the same height. WE'LL SEE!!!!!!!!

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

If you have never watched it...check out the movie/documentary "Pumping Iron". Lou is in it. Great movie. He had, still has in fact, a great body but I think he was too tall to win Olympia. His muscles were too long so they lacked the bulk even though he was a monster of a man. Arnold is even tall by body builder standards at 6'1" or 6'2".

I wouldn't call someone "big" if they have a lot of fat surrounding their muscles and no definition. Just sayin.

Big is big whether there is a little padding over top the muscle or not.

"Big" is relative and subjective regardless if lots of fat is present as well.

yes, around 2003 in FL I set a record with a 4 pound muscle gain in one month. Measured by a naturopathic doctor.

Vegan you could no problem, im not so sure about raw vegan, especially if all your consuming is fruit and vegetables, there would be certain conditionally essential amino acids that you wouldnt be intaking in your diet also.

I have been into bodybuilding for 30 yrs now,and I am as big,if not bigger,on a raw diet, than anytime I was spending hundreds of dollars on protein supplements and milk.

Vinny

How dare you use common sense on here, Vinny?

Hi

I tried going on a raw vegan diet with my workouts thrown in of pretty high intensity. But failed to carry on. I felt drained of energy, felt like i was losing my strength and muscle mass. Most of all, i couldn't find enough sources of protein. And, i didn't have enough recipes at my hand to prepare something palatable.

But i am really enamored with your post. You're the only guy here who has experienced gains on the raw vegan diet and is into weightlifting.Could you please shed some light on the meals and the recipes that you consume? Would be of huge help mate!

Thanks
Puneet

A record for a raw foodie?

I have clearly lost a lot of muscle mass in the last few weeks. I can really tell it in my arms and chest. Kinda glad, kinda sad. At this point weight is weight. While I would prefer it to be fat, any amount off my knees and low back is welcome. If I decide I need the muscle mass back I will go back in to the weight room and build it back. I am "blessed" being a fast gainer in the weight room. I have until now without trying also been maintaining it very well too. I hate to see what my bench numbers look like now

Yeah, if you want to maintain, regardless of diet, you need to actually use the muscles you have......

Puneet,

Your problem may have been that you consider raw food recipes as food. Oh, they are, to be sure, but most of the successful raw athletes are not gourmet raw eaters, as far as I know. They eat whole foods--lots of fresh fruit, leafy greens, some seeds and nuts--just like a great ape does, to put on mass or to maintain the mass they have. Remember that your body does not need protein, per se. It needs aminos acids from which to build protein, and which are assimilable so long as the food containing them hasn't been overcooked(this denaturizes the proteins, making them difficult to digest or metabolize). The reason why there is such a thing as a raw vegan bodybuilder is because this person's body efficiently assembles protein from the raw amino acids he is eating and assimilating, and because he exercises to build his muscle tissues up.

the problem with high intensity weight lifting is that many of the amino acids that are considered conditionally essential i.e only in times of stress, illness or high intensity training you cant get from a raw diet simple, even on vegan it is rather difficult.

the body will try to synthesise some of these amino acids using other amino acids again some of these arent doable from just fruit and vegetables so its a bit more than common sense. Guess what when your body is trying to focus its energy on using other amino acids to sythesise amino acids the body isnt focusing on protein synthesis which is how you build muscle. Supplements may be necessary.

you look a beast nubster, alot of people get the wrong idea, to build large amounts of muscle mass you need to put on some fat, if he was to cut at 280 pounds he'd be looking still rather big.

i forgot to say once you deplete your stores of many of these amino acids high intensity weight lifting becomes impossible like one of the posts says above and the above again happens re the sythensis.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2010 11:01PM by powerlifer.

haha...thanks. Yeah...I had some fat for sure but my goal was strength training so I didn't care. I had visible abs believe it or not so I wasn't obese even though I weight 280 pounds. I was benching 425, squatting about 500, and deadlifting 550 (all raw lifts) around the time that picture was taken which was spring 2006 just before my son was born.

Not sure what amino acids you are referring to but here is a list of the ones in a cup of Raw Kale -

Tryptophan 26.8 mg

Threonine 98.5 mg

Isoleucine 132 mg

Leucine 155 mg

Lysine 132 mg

Methionine 21.4 mg

Cystine 29.5 mg

Phenylalanine 113 mg

Tyrosine 78.4 mg

Valine 121 mg

Arginine 123 mg

Histidine 46.2 mg

Alanine 111 mg

Aspartic acid 198 mg

Glutamic acid 251 mg

Glycine 107 mg

Proline 131 mg

Serine 93.1 mg

Nutrition Data has a fantastic search engine based upon USDA info regarding nutrients in a whole range of foods. Here's the link to the info on Kale.


[www.nutritiondata.com]

Yeah, I like that, too, that nutrition data lists all of the amino acids individually. most people can't grasp the concept of amino acids and our ability to combine them and even create some.....too complicated I guess. and too hard to actually use their muscles and not consume so much fat. easier to blame "raw foodism."

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the problem with high intensity weight lifting is
> that many of the amino acids that are considered
> conditionally essential i.e only in times of
> stress, illness or high intensity training you
> cant get from a raw diet simple, even on vegan it
> is rather difficult.
>
> the body will try to synthesise some of these
> amino acids using other amino acids again some of
> these arent doable from just fruit and vegetables
> so its a bit more than common sense. Guess what
> when your body is trying to focus its energy on
> using other amino acids to sythesise amino acids
> the body isnt focusing on protein synthesis which
> is how you build muscle. Supplements may be
> necessary.
>
> you look a beast nubster, alot of people get the
> wrong idea, to build large amounts of muscle mass
> you need to put on some fat, if he was to cut at
> 280 pounds he'd be looking still rather big.
>
> i forgot to say once you deplete your stores of
> many of these amino acids high intensity weight
> lifting becomes impossible like one of the posts
> says above and the above again happens re the
> sythensis.

Do you have any references for this information?

As ediblecity brought to light, if you go on nutrition data and check the info on just about any whole food, you will find virtually no whole food that is void of any particular amino acid. Naturally they will have varying amounts of each.

taurine is one for the example, vegans are usually deficient in taurine because they dont intake it directly plus they take in very little quantities of the precursosrs such as cysteine or methionine.

l-carnitine is another because its fundamentally found in meat products.

Nubster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Big is big whether there is a little padding over
> top the muscle or not.


You are absolutely right! One can become "BIG" either through the addition of fat or muscle, but he IS "BIG", nonetheless.

Thats right, want big muscles lift heavy weights.
Want the biggest muscles, use steroids.

Want big lungs, use em.
Want the biggest lungs, use EPO,CERA etc.

Im a cyclist and train/race with the best in the sport. Been a vegan for over 9 years now. Eat up to 70bananas a day.

I'll miss big cyclist, Tom Boonen in the Tour de France this year, those power sprints to the finish always incredible. I wonder how Bradley Wiggins will do this year in the overall now that he's settled into a lower weight and so is a contender in the mountains and for the podium.