I wouldn't fault anyone for taking soya protein as a vegan cooked bodybuilder, at least they aren't harming animals.

I guess what I'm saying, Powerlifter, is that you're choosing to compare omni/typical bodybuilders as if they set the standard, when, in fact, we each choose our own standards, and I don't want to be compared to someone who uses supplements/drugs, kills/harms animals, has little nutrient intake, no full-time job, etc. Those are just four miscelleanous things I chose to list, so no need to try to refute one of them as if I'm "wrong" - there are many other differences; a lot of people who are vegan and/or raw are very different from the average animal eaters. I don't take care of my body, exercise, lift, eat well so I can compare myself to a female who competes and drinks powdered crap with 20 ingredients - that female does NOT set my standards. Why are you setting standards for other people and choosing an unhealthy person as the bar? I don't get it.

(fyi - I don't feel a need to compare myself to anyone; I just plain like my body the way it is, no role models. )



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2010 07:37PM by Utopian Life.

Im not sure i quite understand your post, i wasnt saying anything all i was asking is if anyone has links to any raw powerlifters or raw vegan bodybuilders and that i talk with and train with some vegan bodybuilders and again i am actually a soya fan so again nothing there.

sweeping generalisation though. id love to see any part of my post that "sets standards"? i debunked your view on fat burners because you obviously didnt understand why many bodybuilders use them you thought they did because they intake high fat diet, when you look at the ingredients for the top fat burner/pre workout products there infact just unhealthy stimulants and masses of caffiene.

again im not sure where your coming from in your post, all i wanted to know was there any raw vegan athletes that arent endurance based.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, I've talked to bodybuilders and read their
> interviews, they have so much bellyfat and fat
> elsewhere that to show off their abdominal and
> other muscles/cuts, they have to take fat burners,
> which yes, usually include caffeine. That's
> besides the point that it includes caffeine. The
> point is that their body isn't functioning well
> due to their high-fat diet and they need
> "assistance" from pills to look halfway
> decent/muscular. This is why sometimes I'm
> shocked to hear of omnis who work out/lift, and I
> can't even see ANY results; there's so much animal
> blubber there hiding the muscle and also water
> retention from their high-sodium junk.
>
> (this is in general- some bodybuilders are wise
> enough to limit animal-product intake so they
> don't look so fat.)


that is so wrong i dont even know where to start, the cycle usually goes as bulk yes you will put on some fat from the excess calories then you cut. But these stimulant/fat burners are to aid them in energy for cardio is this right no i wouldnt agree so but it isnt automatically burning fat for them.

what part of these ingredients starts burning fat for the reason to consume them?

btw my name is powerlifer not lifter.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2010 08:33PM by powerlifer.

haha, you didn't debunk anything I wrote. I don't think I wrote your name as "lifter" ever. I guess we don't understand each other well, that's fine. I stand by my posts and reflecting what I've read.

ohh i debunked your why they take "fat burners" if not then i guess we can joke and say these guys take it due to there fat intake, the stimulants such as caffiene burn there fat magically.

explain how ive set standards, i dont understand your post, im much in favour vegan athletes and alot of them are my friends, i train and am a vegan athlete myself, so explain?

and lol if we need to get petty just check your last post you reffered to me as powerlifter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2010 09:50PM by powerlifer.

Whee ooh, this thread got all kinds of testo-agro all of a sudden.

Yeah, I spelled your name right. Are you being serious? I really don't get you.....you acted like you were offended and I was petty for calling you a different name, but I never idd - I always spelled it right. I think it's time this nonsense is stopped. I really don't care if you like me or not, please don't misrepresent my posts.

You didn't debunk anything I wrote. That seems to be your ego talking. It's obvious to most people why people take fat burners. If they just wanted caffeine, they'd drink coffee.

Maybe you'd get more answers if you started a thread on teh topic instead of hyjacking this thread about "best source of protein."

Utopian Life,

Are you maybe engaging with powerlifer over what Nubster wrote on page 1? What you say makes sense as a response to that, rather.

Yeah, I replied to Nubster and then Powerlifter replied to me.

Utopian Life,

Stop calling him powerLIFTER! It's powerlifer, powerLIFER! Don't want any more fighting, mom and dad

Oh, I see now. I thought the quarrel was with "power" being in front. Sorry, Powerlifer.

No wonder I was so confused.....

It's funny cause this whole time I have been seeing PowerLIFER's name as Powerlifter. It wasn't until it was brought up in this thread that I see now what it really says...lol

Anyways...back to my unanswered post. I am not asking about who is healthier...meat eating vs. vegan/raw strength athletes (I have no doubt the vegan/raw person is the healthier). I am just curious where they stand against each other in performance. Every single post I read about how raw is great for physical performance always talks about endurance stuff. Great....but I don't care about endurance sports. I am interested in what a "high level" strength athlete that lives a vegan/raw, especially raw lifestyle can do. Heck...I wonder if there even is such a thing as a raw strength athlete.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't want to be in the same class as "the
> big boys." They eat so much fat with their
> "protein" that they have to take fat burners.
>
> I lift and I'm vegan/raw.

Well...I don't care what "class" you WANT to be in. I am not trying to debate about the health issues or supplement use or fat burners or anything else. What I want to see are numbers. If a raw powerlifter even exists....how much weight can they move? That is what I am curious about. And not to try and make some point about this diet being better than that diet...this is just out of curiosity. I KNOW that vegetarian/vegan/raw IS healthier.

As far as eating so much fat with their protein they have to take fat burners...that is not 100% true. When I powerlifted I did not take in so much fat I had to take fat burners. I wouldn't ever say I was super cut nor did I have an ultra low body fat %...but I was low enough in fat without ever touching a fat burner that you could see my abdominal muscles.

Okay, so in your case, YOU didn't take fat burners. Good for you! I can't imagine those things are good for your heart.

Maybe someone posts their numbers online who's a raw powerlifter?

you still have it wrong about fat burners though, you dont just take fat burners then the pounds start dropping off, if you look at the formulas again like ive already said there based around sythethic stimulants such as DMAA, large doses of caffiene, phenylethylamine and such. None of these burn fat peroid people consume them for a boost before cardio. Some of the other fat burners are designed slightly different.

I dont have any ego, all i asked was a simple question in that does anyone have any links to raw athletes that arent endurance based and then you replied about me setting standards and all other kinds of irrelavant guff.

Anyway this is off topic and pointless.

I don't think I said anything about anyone not doing cardio with their fat burning supplements.

Dang it, I keep coming in here thinking someone would have posted something valuable about the actual topic but on no, it's just deteriorated into a pissing contest. Maybe y'all could replace some of your lifting etc with some meditation or something and just calm down the agro already. Sheesh.

Maybe you view it as a pissing contest, but we're having a discussion. No need to judge what we talk about or our forms of exercise.....I did suggest making a new thread, though, and would like one if possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2010 02:59PM by Utopian Life.

Yes, Please make it, do it. This narky back and forth hasn't got a lot to do w protein.

So, durianrider, do you eat absolutely no nuts or seeds, is that what you're saying?

No I do eat nuts and seeds for sure. I did an experiement with raw oats off an organic farmer I met. My conclusion? weet fruit sure is number one fuel for elite athletes looking to train for gains either strength or cardio.

I find it hard to get super fast training partners Im riding so strong at the moment. Im enjoying Cat 1 racing at the mo' cos all the drugs they take,Im guaranteed a hardcore workout being amongst it all. If I was into weights, Id be a competitive lifter for sure.

What ever we train hard at, we will excel at. Ive been bike racing for 13 years and not racing at my highest level as a sweet fruit powered raw vegan.

Getting enough carb calories is the main focus. As I get most of my calories from bananas in the last 5 years, I can objectively say that Ive been getting most of my protein from them too.

They are right!You are what you eat!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2010 10:57AM by durianrider.

you're...you're a banana? it all makes sense now... j/k,lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you're...you're a banana? it all makes sense
> now... j/k,lol

Which one, Bingo, Fleagle, Drooper or Snork???

.

ROFLMAO...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?