I dont think its possible to get super big raw, at least not comparable to high level bodybuilders.

You know...in my experience I will say that this is a pretty fair statement. I was drug free however health was not a concern. Adding 5 pounds to my bench in a month was my concern. Getting one inch deeper on my squat was my concern. Pulling my max just a little easier was my concern. And of course there are those that do use chemicals to assist them reach their goals. There are plenty of big, strong lifters that are drug free but you can bet the farm that anyone at a high level professional level is a walk pharmacy. That is the way it is...these people choose to live that life style and take the risks to accomplish their goals ultimately at the cost of their health.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a lot of people who are into health more
> (raw foodists) might not want to lift so
> much....but of course there are probably a few.
> This guy transitioned to raw, www.gymmorris.com.
> I think most bodybuilders/powerlifters in general
> don't care so much about health; they jsut want to
> look a certain way, and to get there, you usually
> have to consume some pretty nasty things (my
> opinion of course) and from waht I've seen of the
> powders and such, a lot of the vitamins don't come
> from the food but from the supplements. Some eat
> broccoli and other vegetables - that's great.

I won't disagree but I still want to see a raw lifter that can move as much weight as I could when I was lifting. I would love to see it infact because that would be great motivation knowing that I can eat raw and still potentially lift heavy if I choose to.


WorkoutMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > steroids arent really a magic tool they just
> help
> > increase protein synthesis and recover faster
> you
> > still need to eat masses of food and lift.
> >
> > the other guy on that site Avi lehyani, looks
> > pretty big but for some reason i think he may
> have
> > done a cycle of something,
> >
> > It may be that way utopian although theres got
> to
> > be some or im feeling that its just not doable
> raw
> > due to the theory.
>
>
> Im not sure what youre wondering exactly? Weather
> or not its possible to build muscle on a raw diet?
> Many people have already confirmed that it is..
>
> A healthy raw diet does not give you inflated
> muscles! Your muscle is 100% functional on a raw
> diet. Genetically you are over 99% the same as a
> chimpanzee. The average adult male chimp might be
> 135lbs. Their arms are not very big, but they can
> rip your car door off! Ive read that they can be 5
> times as stron as an adult human. The muscles of
> bodybuilders are extremely understrengthed
> relative to their size. I know people and chimps
> are not the same. But I still think it is useful
> to consider these things. Given the size of these
> guys they should be able to lift way more! The
> body of anyone who regularly consumes much cooked
> food and potions, salt, toxins, etc is inflated.
> Even if they are not using steroids they are still
> unnaturaly big in my opinion if they consume
> these things.
>
> Give me time to regain my health, I will put it to
> the test! My goal is to develop a very strong and
> balanced base of fitness including strength.
> Developing the highest strength to weight ratio is
> an important goal as an athlete.
> Consider these guys they are not very big
> [www.youtube.com]

WorkoutMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Genetically you are over 99% the same as a
> chimpanzee. The average adult male chimp might be
> 135lbs. Their arms are not very big, but they can
> rip your car door off! Ive read that they can be 5
> times as stron as an adult human. The muscles of
> bodybuilders are extremely understrengthed
> relative to their size. I know people and chimps
> are not the same. But I still think it is useful
> to consider these things. Given the size of these
> guys they should be able to lift way more! The
> body of anyone who regularly consumes much cooked
> food and potions, salt, toxins, etc is inflated.
> Even if they are not using steroids they are still
> unnaturaly big in my opinion if they consume
> these things.

I agree that often body builders muscles cant lift as much in proportion to their size as some people which physically smaller, but denser muscles, however comparing humans to chimps as far as muscle strength goes is kinda pointless as they have a genetic advantage over most humans but are only about twice as strong on average, heres an interesting article I read a little while ago, its got some cool info [www.slate.com]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Why don't you prove it to yourself instead of waiting around for someone to do it before you do, Nubster? You can be teh first to lift X amount as a raw bodybuilder (that is known/that posts/talks about it online). Dont' forget that not everyone will make it well-known what they can lift.

The first and main problem with that is the fact that a couple years ago I blew out my shoulder at work and it had to be surgically repair so for the most part my heavy lifting, benching at least, days are over.

Second...how long would I have to be 100% raw before I could call myself a raw powerlifter? How long before my muscles and strength become raw and not left over SAD? I have no doubt I could probably struggle to bench 315 pounds right now but I have not been 100% to this point. High raw but not all raw.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't you prove it to yourself instead of
> waiting around for someone to do it before you do,
> Nubster? You can be teh first to lift X amount as
> a raw bodybuilder (that is known/that posts/talks
> about it online). Dont' forget that not everyone
> will make it well-known what they can lift.

I don't know about how long raw and what percent....I guess you're the one asking the question, so you can make up a number.

Well, it's said that your cells turn over every 20 days and that all the cells in your body are new after 7 years or something like that. So take you pick I guess.

I think that after you've successfully transitioned and the diet has become a natural part of your lifestyle would be a good place to judge. 2 years or so on average I'd say.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2010 01:32PM by coco.

what i was wondering nubster is if its possible to lift high intensity long term on raw as the conditionally essential aminos would be depleted and with not high enough quantities of the precursors coming in protein synthesis would be impaired also.

any ideas on that?

cheers for the PMs with links to raw bodybuilders also guys.

British powerlifter Pat Reeves has been raw, vegan for 35 years and holds British powerlifting records. [www.gbpf.org.uk]

"...So, follow a high nutrient-dense philosophy in this respect. When talking strength i.e. powerlifting the same applies. However, ensuring sufficient balancing of amino acids in a form that takes almost no energy from the body (raw, sprouted) is perhaps the best of all. I've been raw, vegan for close on thirty five years now, so I cannot compare to how I 'was' as a meat-eater, but it sure didn't do my totals any harm! I eat in the way I do to survive cancer predominately, but will up the balance of bio-available amino acids when training gets heavy. Basically, I sprout everything - Living Foods - and turn them into every conceivable modality that takes my fancy, from 'bread' to 'cheese' and 'ice-cream'! Basically, I endeavour to take in 75% in vegetation, grains do not figure highly for me, the only ones I use are amaranth, quinoa, millet, groats in any quantity, with maybe rice and buckwheat once a week. Sprouted quinoa is phenomenal for providing amino-acids. The rest is sprouted pulses, seeds and nuts and, of course, fruit. Every day is different, I aim not to use the same food within a three day rotation."

[www.veganbodybuilding.org]

Pat Reeves does raw for health and to win.

Here's Reeves competing this year in the Master Five group --

[www.veganbodybuilding.org]

I think the main difference for me as a major improvement in my sleep which then made my workouts much more fun. I used to get headaches during/after my workouts and run out of breathe easily. That just doesn't happen anymore.

Swayze
www.fitonraw.com



Swayze
[www.fitonraw.com]

loeve,

According to her website, Pat Reeves has recently undergone, or shall undergo soon, surgery for "various injuries." If I can assume these are from weight lifting, and they may not be at all, but if they are, I am sadly discouraged. Hope she's OK and thanks for posting the links.

Cant believe i forgot about pat reeves all this time.

Pat Reeves has been vegan since 1975 and raw since, say at least 2001 when the article was written, though between edits and updates I'm not quite sure. Reeves speaks of her struggle with a familial predisposition to cancer since 1975 and subsequent cancer related surgery.

"By 1975, I had already ascertained that, given my familial genetic situation and experimental medical treatment which I had undergone - I was at considerable risk of developing cancer and I knew I had to attain a high level of fitness to postpone eventual carcinomas. I established a strong connection with nutrition to assist in this task. My studies, research and application of nutritional therapy as a preventative measure were so successful in this respect, that I eventually became a practitioner of Nutritional Medicine."

That's so awesome. I'm impressed w Pat.

Depends on what kinda weight lifting you do. If you lift for fitness and/or aesthetics then if proper form is used and you watch to not over train...chances of injury are pretty low. Powerlifting however, especially competitively, is very very hard on the body. To stay competitive lifters often over train, ignore signs their body is giving telling the person to slow down, sacrifice good form, and just push things beyond the safe limits. Not saying she did or all powerlifters do, but it is pretty common and if you ask around MANY powerlifters have been injured seriously or live with constant nagging injuries. It is also often the same story with competitive body builders. That is one of the reasons that they turn to steroid use because some steroids great reduce the time it takes to recover from these injuries.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> loeve,
>
> According to her website, Pat Reeves has recently
> undergone, or shall undergo soon, surgery for
> "various injuries." If I can assume these are
> from weight lifting, and they may not be at all,
> but if they are, I am sadly discouraged. Hope
> she's OK and thanks for posting the links.

I'll take my nice, raw-foodist skin & glow with beautifully formed muscles over a bodybuilding female physique any day. The figure and bikini models look great, in my opinion.

and then, there is Jim Morris! 72, raw vegan, former Mr. America. Interesting that grains and starches were not mentioned in his daily fare. Looks pretty healthy to me at 72.

[www.raw-food-repair.com]

yeah, he talks on his site about how he realized that oats were not optimal, etc. I linked his site on first page. gymmorris.com

ive always wondered when people refer to raw oats what they mean? theres so many different type of oats its confusing steel cut etc.

I think only rolled oats are available sold as "raw." Not that they are truly raw, but it's a label that's used.

When people say raw oats they are referring to oat groats which are the whole grain. They are a fat ovalish shape like a grain of wheat and that is the only raw oat there is, the flattened ones are not really raw.

Unless they are steamed or irradiated in which case you can't sprout them and they're dead. Blah.

If you want raw, sproutable oats, then you would want oat groats rather than rolled oats where the oats are cut. [www.homegrownharvest.com]

barley, unfortunately, isn't so lucky. Apparently when they dehull it, they damage the seed so it can't sprout. For those drinking barley grass juice, there must be another source or two of barley seed. But, I fear we stray from Cherie's thread.

Paul

Oh, I don't mind.

Same story with wild rice, heat damaged during processing renders it cooked, it's never raw.
I can't imagine a company incurring the expense of dehulling if the grain is to be sprouted instead of sold for culinary purposes.

uh, what about brown basmati rice? I just sprouted some!!! it was...interesting! I did like how nutty it is, consistency was weird for me...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Brown basmati rice isn't wild rice, in fact wild rice isn't even really a "rice" at all. Anyhow, it's steamed as part of the processing, brown rice isn't so far as I know though it is notoriously hard to sprout, it gets Very smelly most of the time.

Nubster, you just gotta learn to train hard and eat hard bro!

Unless your raw from birth and come from 6 generations of 100% raw vegans,then you can really call yourself raw..

Quit complain'n! Back ta train'n!

Look up the amputee's that are in the gym!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2010 10:07AM by durianrider.

Not complaining. Just a simple fact that because of injuries the pain of lifting makes it unbearable. Maybe you'll let me tear your shoulder out of joint to the point that the cartilage is sheared off the bone and needs surgery to repair it. Then a few months after that I'll smash your spine until you have some ruptured discs in your back. Then we'll see how gung ho you are to get back to training...especially resistance training.

And trust me...in the weight room...I know how to train hard.

One thing I cannot do though is eat hard...not raw anyways...costs to much money.

durianrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nubster, you just gotta learn to train hard and
> eat hard bro!
>
> Unless your raw from birth and come from 6
> generations of 100% raw vegans,then you can really
> call yourself raw..
>
> Quit complain'n! Back ta train'n!
>
> Look up the amputee's that are in the gym!

That's the shoulder injury my ER doc friend just had surgery to repair, he wrecked it twice before he finally went under the knife too. The man is BUSY, crazy emerg shifts, runs his own farm, works out tons. You can do it Nubster, just don't Over do it. He'll never be as big as when he as mr teen muscle something or other in his youth but he's not a puny man now. You might just have to be happy with a less massive you.