My office moved across town to a new building with a gym! I've started going every lunch break, but I'm finding that I am sore for days after I do weights. Right now I'm about 75% raw. Here's what I'm doing:

20 minute of cardio on one of the machines, usually the elliptical thing or the stairmaster.

Then, 20 minutes of weights. I've heard about the 'letting the muscle recover' idea, so I've been thinking I'll change it up every day, for three days, like: day-1 arm machines + push-ups, day-2 leg machines, and day-3 sit-ups.

My co-worker who was once vegetarian, and knows I am one, is insisting that I need to stock up on protein powder and consume it immediately after working out. I started eating nut butter right after, but I'm still pretty sore. She's also advising me to never do cardio + weights at the same time, and that it's taxing my body too much. She said something about blood-type being a factor in recovery, though I don't understand how that would apply...

What do you guys think? Do people need some kind of protein boost after working out? What's a good raw alternative to 'whey powder.' Are we not supposed to mix cardio and weights on the same day?

There are many schools of thought on the subject...I come from a SAD power lifting background and when i was lifting protein after workout was paramount. Key is it needs to be easily digested and mixed with a simple carb to increase the absorption. Example...and this is not vegan or raw but just an example of what I used to do...mix 50 grams whey protein with 100 grams of maltodextrin in water and drink within 30 minutes of lifting. Whole food sources of protein are not ideal because instead of fast absorption they will slow absorption but it would be better then nothing.

Even if I start lifting again as a high raw vegetarian it still would be super important...I would just have to change the source of that protein.

As far as lifting and cardio...I was always in the school that said it was ok to do both on the same day...just not the same workout. However if you did cardio to warm-up for lifting that was cool...but not an actual cardio workout. Again...that is for power lifting were we needed maximum strength for the workout and doing cardio before would drain energy from the muscle and after the workouts...well...we usually had trouble just walking to our cars much less trying to do 30-60 of cardio.

Muscle recovery is also very important...ideally you should give 48 hours of rest between body parts.

You do need extra protein when hitting the weights so that you can recover.

Maybe look into the vega thrive products they have 25g of protein from different sources or the sunwarrior rice protein products. Theres quite a few vegan protein powders which will be a quick way for you to get protein post workout. Theres also hemp protein powder but it tastes horrible, and pumpkin seed protein powder but ive not tryed that one yet. Im happy with the vega products as they have everything.

I am not athletic by any stretch of the standard definition, but I have found it better to alternate days. Also, to do super brief stretches(3-4 seconds) for five to ten minutes before and after a workout, and to do short intense bursts of cardio mixed with longer periods of moderate exertion over the course of a workout. Lastly, when using weights, I have found it more productive to increase reps rather than weight. But I'm a woman who is not after having big muscles, so . . .

The problem with increasing reps is that you end up just working localised endurance which is better suited to sport specific exercises such as if your a boxer then heavy bag work etc. Weights are for increasing strength components, power etc.

Dynamic stretches before workouts and static stretchs post workout is how ive always done things.

I prefer intense cardio like you say, mostly high intensity interval training rather than boring endurance cardio which isnt as effective for heart, fitness or weight loss benefits.

What's the difference between dynamic and static stretching?

coco,

Quote

What's the difference between dynamic and static stretching?

I'm assuming dynamic stretching involves a bumpin' House sound track

Protein powder after a workout = bad idea.
Grapes. Eat grapes. The sweet varities. #1 food you can consume after a workout. Your body is CRAVING glucose, and grapes are loaded with it.
Try grapes after every workout, and let me know your results.

ROFLMAO tam, actually, its been known to show up during some of my workouts,lol... Ive been concentrating mostly on cardio myself lately, Ive decided to not do anymore heavy weight lifting, my joints cant handle it happily anymore...

Mark, although grapes, and anything similar can be helpful for recovery, quick muscle recovery requires protein, the easier to digest and use that protein, the faster it does its job, I also use L-Glutamine, but its not really PROVEN if that helps or not, But its cheap and It feels like my recovery time has noticeably improved... I have no idea if its vegan though, probably isnt now that I think about it...hmmm... I shall have to check google for that.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

marksquire Wrote:
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> Protein powder after a workout = bad idea.
> Grapes. Eat grapes. The sweet varities. #1 food
> you can consume after a workout. Your body is
> CRAVING glucose, and grapes are loaded with it.
> Try grapes after every workout, and let me know
> your results.

Protein is the MOST important thing you can take after lifting weights. Saying that it is a bad idea to take is a bad idea in and of itself.

Dudes, you know I can make protein "powder" with seeds and nuts in a spice mill. Is this what you're talking about? I can't imagine that vega stuff with all the brown rice powder filler in it is any better than what I can whip up in my own kitchen. Just sayin'...

yeah, unless its a 100% isolate, you can whip up great protein stuff thats just as good in your own kitchen! for allot cheaper too, isolates are even more expensive though, so not really needed by anybody except body builders, a good high protein easy to digest home made mix would probably be more than good enough for the OP...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I wouldn't disagree...as long as the protein was quality and easy to digest...that is the important thing.

Good quality protein food sources as nubster says will always be the preffered method but not often at the gym people can get home and whip up these meals or protein so most use a protein powder of some sort. The plus of vega is that the protein comes from many sources so there is a good range of amino acids, aswell as it has everything else included carbs,essential fatty acids, vitamins, minerals and other bonuses such as maca, chlorella etc.

dynamic stretching is a type of stretching you do whilst moving, whilst static stretching you dont move at all.

Nubster, do you understand that all whole foods have amino acids?

utopian life, im fairly certain he was talking about having a variety of amino acids, not saying that all whole foods DONT have them, but a wider variety of acids, means your body has an easier time constructing the protein it needs for muscle recovery, there are other benefits as well, but thats another show... anyway, a variety of amino acids is ALWAYS better for you than a whole bunch of just a few different types, body can store allot of for future use, but when the whole point is reducing muscle recovery time, then you need as wide a variety of amino acids in your body as you can get as fast as your body can get them...

Now, I know nothing about the powders he is talking about, so I cant say how good they are compared to lets say, a big yummy salad, but they are definitely less labor intensive, and id hazard a guess that nomatter what you put in that salad, the powder will probably have a better variety of amino acids, although they wouldn't be nearly as fresh, really, If i was to use a supplement, id probably go 50/50 50% good supplement, 50% whole easily digestible raw foods, while strength/stamina training at least... a powder made up of pure isolates will be a far more efficient delivery of protein than any raw source unfortunately, its super concentrated, and easily digestible... id still want to consume it with something more natural though...

im not doing really intense workouts anymore though, so I dont use a powder, I just eat my fruits and veggies and seeds and nuts ^_^, just saying, that just cause whole foods have amino acids, it doesnt mean they deliver the variety needed as easily as a powder does...

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I dont beleive in protein powder at all. I used to use that junk before I learned about raw. Here's some things to consider

1)eating sugars and proteins (especially refined ones like maltodextrin and protein powder) together equals bad digestion (farts!)

2)powders are dehydrating

3)The thing that is used most by the body during a workout is water and sugar

4)Fruits do contain enough amino acids and are well known to be extremely easy to digest

5)maintaining hydration will speed recovery, and unless you are already low in protein, then I don't think that eating it will help you recover faster. In fact all the work required of the digestive system will probably slow recovery.

ugh...this is my last comment on the subject, look up some nutrition information, fruits do not by themselves contain enough variety of amino acids, and not anywhere near the concentration a GOOD protein powder will have, also, never had a good isolate make me fart, cheap crappy powders sure did though, soy was the worst, it also made me nauseous.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I don't think there's a such thing as a "good protein powder." It's a refined food, and your body gets all it needs from whole, fresh foods. Somehow, before food processing occurred, people were still able to build muscle. People are probably just more lazy nowadays and want to work out less but eat more and think that's going to give them a better body.

Utopian Life Wrote:
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> Nubster, do you understand that all whole foods
> have amino acids?

I realize that but the key to a post workout recovery is fast digesting absorbable protein and in most cases whole foods don't fit the bill. Sure...you can say fruits has amino acid and whatnot but IMO not in the quantity needed for post workout recovery. But then again it all comes down to goals. If you are just an average person getting in your weekly workout to stay in shape you probably are not worry about it too much.

Utopian Life Wrote:
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> I don't think there's a such thing as a "good
> protein powder." It's a refined food, and your
> body gets all it needs from whole, fresh foods.
> Somehow, before food processing occurred, people
> were still able to build muscle. People are
> probably just more lazy nowadays and want to work
> out less but eat more and think that's going to
> give them a better body.

Yeah...you could build muscle back in the day before processed foods but not like you can today. Just comes down to what you want to do.

LET'S SEE THE BODIES OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GIVING ADVICE.. LIKE POWERLIFTER, MARKSQUIRE, CURATOR, NUBSTER, WORKOUTMAN.
BACKUP YOUR ADVICE WITH SOME PICS. OTHERWISE SHUT UP.

I don't have any soreness after lifting, eating a whole-foods diet. My muscles are spectacular, always have been. Because I do weight-resistance work.

So you can eat your powders and have your "recovery" while I live my life and stay active whenever I want.

Just my experience.

Raw Seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LET'S SEE THE BODIES OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT
> ARE GIVING ADVICE.. LIKE POWERLIFTER, MARKSQUIRE,
> CURATOR, NUBSTER, WORKOUTMAN.
> BACKUP YOUR ADVICE WITH SOME PICS. OTHERWISE SHUT
> UP.


I want an IP check on you, you sound too much like durian and back up him in every thread. You respond exactly the same as durian does keeping hassling me for pics when he cant debate. Some of the best trainers in the world arent athletes does that make there input void, does it heck. Ill put up some pics if you wish, nubster already has put up pics.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 07:03PM by powerlifer.

Raw Seeker,

Dude, put the gun down! ALL CAPS looks very hostile, and that's not what we're about here, 'kay?

Here ya go PUNK!!!!

280 pounds around 15% BF benching 425+, squatting 450+, deadlifting 500+...drug free. I think I know what the hell I'm talking about...so maybe you need to shut your suck.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2010 05:55AM by Nubster.

Utopian Life Wrote:
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> I don't have any soreness after lifting, eating a
> whole-foods diet. My muscles are spectacular,
> always have been. Because I do weight-resistance
> work.
>
> So you can eat your powders and have your
> "recovery" while I live my life and stay active
> whenever I want.
>
> Just my experience.


What does taking protein powders and staying active have to do with one another? When I was lifting and taking whey protein powders I was very active...still am FYI. I was lifting, always recovered, living my life while being active, and had huge very strong muscles.

That's just MY experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2010 06:18AM by Nubster.

First of all, Powerlifter, you aren't some of the best trainers in the world so I would be very careful about taking advice from you. Especially with all the concoctions you sell to sick people who are desperate enough to try anything to get well and get conned with your crap.
Secondly, Powerlifter, to set the record straight I'm not DR.I live in the USA, you oaf! And why are you asking me if I wish you'll put pictures of yourself up? Didn't I make that clear in my post?

Nubster, You look like the typical SAD wannabe bodybuilder which to a 100% raw foodist like me looks like bleh!! All I see is bloat and fat. I wouldn't take workout advice from you because I don't want to look like you. What kind of raw foods do you eat to make you look that way?? That's rhetorical btw.

Tamukha, 2 lines of caps make you see hostility?? I can understand if it was a long paragraph or two but 2 lines(if you move the third line up). What are caps or lower case btw? Just sizes of letters. You see hostility because there's an issue with yourself that needs looking into.

Anyway, I won't be replying again to this thread because I don't want to take the focus off the OP's question anymore, and I don't have the time to do this often. So I'll give the last word to the lastworders who live here day and night. I'm sure you'll have a field day.

I agree re: how Nubster looks. It is possible to look good and have defined cuts and a nonfatty body on an omnivorous diet with protein powders; I've seen it, but not in Nubster. I wouldn't be saying this unless he posted acting like he had a nice body and was an example of a fit person, I don't want to offend and have nothing against him. It's just I wouldn't ever want to look like him, nor my brother to look like that, nor my significant other male.

I also agree that it's hard to have a decent conversation with some of the people on this forum: it seems there is a lot of defensiveness going on from about three-four people lately, wherein I guess they go on message boards to argue, mimick, and be contrary in any way they can. I like to go on message boards to talk, personally. that's just my experience.

raw seeker you come across as very obnoxious and rude, this forum has no place for people like you here insulting users. grow up i didnt say i was the best trainer in the world or even a trainer so read my post. I said some of the best trainers in the world have never even trained as an athlete does that make there opinion void no so why are you so interested in peoples pictures.

get conned with what, all of the herbs have studies on there actions. Ill take studies over some made up psuedocrap that you buy into. i have had multiple users saying how happy they are that there eczema has gone when they tried everything else and multiple other happy people. Ill take that over your one bogus opinion.

i see no defensiveness, just the same old users who cant handle listening to others opinions whether that be powders or what. Everyone has a different view point people need to respect that.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2010 12:00PM by powerlifer.