Hey... been awhile since i've posted... just wondering if anyone knows about Orthorexia and what you're thoughts are on it where the raw foods movement is concerned?

love laugh and dream

Another thing to "diagnose" and "treat" with meds to keep the pharmacuetical industry raking the dollars in.

yes, I'm wondering because it's about thinking about eating and food a lot. Is that the goal? no, but perhaps it's necassary because everything in the modern world is kind of opposite of the raw food health idea. maybe once it's established itself more profoundly and developed some expansion, there will be more ease to it and people wont have to be conserned so much, but it will rather become something natural that one must not fight for.

I would say i was orthorexic at one point or if i wasn't i had an extremely poor relationship with food and it caused multiple problems both mentally and physically. Glad im over that now, raw and vegan both helped that.

Saying that in the last thread we had about this i agreed with the poster who said that those who think foods such as garlic and onion are unhealthy even though they've been proven multiple times as being healthy are verging towards the orthorexic side of things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 01:16PM by powerlifer.

Hiya, luvyuu! Hope things are OK

I think orthorexia is a very real disorder and is not the broad allopathic definition of people who choose only healthy foods. We are all attentive about the need to consume healthy foods because we have a nutritional rationale for why we choose to eat this way. It's not a psychological disorder. IMO, a real orthorexic is preoccupied with limiting even healthy foods, not merely cutting out all unhealthy foods. I think raw foodism probably attracts a small percentage of people who are prone to food-witholding disorders. The vast majority don't know about raw foodism and so become cooked anorexics, but I believe the root of the disorder is that, and not the diet; that is, I don't think being a raw foodist leads to the disorder--one must have a tendency toward that direction already.

Very well put tamukha i agree fully with your post.

How is it that junk food is even legal? How is it that food corporations use carcinogenic components so heavily? How is it that alcohol and coffe are legal? They are all so damaging to the body, together with huge amounts of salt and sugar? How is all that legal?

Have you seen the show called Freaky Eaters? I only caught a glimpse of it, but it seems to be about food obsessions, not healthy food, but obsessions none the less.

There was a woman who only ate french fries, nothing else. She would gag and spit out other foods, even french fries that were dyed a different color. When they ran some 'genetic tests' (I have no idea what these were) on her they found that she actually did have an odd make-up and there probably was a physiological reason for her gagging on most foods. Her daughter, however, was falling into the same pattern and when they tested her she did not show any anomalies. So, in the daughter's case it was probably mimicry.

I would imagine that orthorexics could fall into both categories. There probably are some that have some physiological based aversions to some foods and others that have purely psychological ones.

i am reading a book about orthorexia right now per suggestion though my OA sponsor and she has said i am most definitely Orthorexic and I can see why she says that though i am not nearly as severe as some... but I have done many of the food restricting because of health problems i have had to contend with and it has worked mostly...... to take certain foods out... to play the obsessive role more because I have to if I want to feel good... is this psychological... or physical... or both I suppose... I know enough about healing and it being a wholistic process... body mind and spirit... and I wonder am I so focused on using food to heal my body that I am missing the spiritual boat... that i'm not enjoying life because of my restricted eating... and so I go and relax on the eating but then i don't feel so good... so tell me where is the happy medium in all of it...

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another thing to "diagnose" and "treat" with meds
> to keep the pharmacuetical industry raking the
> dollars in.


This.

Also..regardless of how you feel about other "diets"..a lot of non-raw people feel the same way about it. "Orthorexia" rants have made their way across various forums.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2010 03:52AM by BackAgain.

I actually posted a couple of short articles about this on my blog a little while back:

Here's one:

[www.fitonraw.com]

and here's the other:

[www.fitonraw.com]



Swayze
[www.fitonraw.com]

I just cant see any logical reason why garlic, onions and spices should be avoided, they are a decent source of nutrition, garlic in particular is well studied for its wide range of health benefits from anti-biotic properties to circulatory benefits. Spices contain a range of well documented alkaloids also which for example turmeric is well known for its anti-tumor properties.

Salt i can see why as you can get sodium from other vegetables such as celery, but too miss out on the health benefits of the above just seems silly to me but im willing to listen to any reason why those dont include them or deem them healthy?

How about this as a reason to not eat garlic:


Garlic - Toxic And A Brain
Synchronization Destroyer
Reiki Empowerment Seminars
4-30-7
I have been telling people this for years, all you need is a ECG of the brain to see the truth .. it totally desynchronizes the brain and cause us to loose our psychic mind ... yes our psychic mind, we are Human not slaves to the race of beings that control us ... this doesn't mean much to most ...
Garlic is not only repulsive to any one that eats it for hours ... but it makes us stupid slow and simple ... this is hard for most people to grasp, do the ECG and do the experiment yourselves ... read this article on this and you will be amazed it does clean the blood but it also destroys the total mind synchronization of the two hemispheres .. I was heart broken, when I heard of this because I love the smell of garlic and onions ... but oh well ... once you find out they are a neuro poison then it makes al the sense in the world when you eat it ... what happens to you ! ... you smell awful and are totally repulsed by others . most are generally being nice not to tell you ... YOU STINK .. stay your distance !
it is also the best organic insect killer, too, is there a reason why no bug will eat garlic or any of the onion family...because it kills them.
The reason garlic is so toxic, the sulphone hydroxyl ion penetrates the blood brain barrier, just like DMSO, and is a specific poison for higher life forms and brain cells. We discovered this much to our horror, when I was the world's largest manufacturer of ethical EEG biofeedback equipment. We'd have people come back from lunch that looked clinically dead on the encephalograph, which we used to calibrate their progress. "Well, what happened?" " Well, I went to an Italian restaurant and there was some garlic in my salad dressing!"

So we had 'em sign things that they won't touch garlic before classes or we were wasting their time, and money and my time. I guess those of you who are pilots or have been in flight tests... I was in flight test engineering in Doc Hallan's group in the 1950's. The flight surgeon would come around every month and remind all of us: "Don't you dare touch any garlic 72 hours before you fly one of our airplanes, because it'll double or triple your reaction time. You're three times slower than you would be if you'd [not] had a few drops of garlic."

Well, we didn't know why for 20 years later, until I owned the Alpha-Metrics Corporation. We were building biofeedback equipment and found out that garlic totally desynchronizes your brain waves. So I funded a study at Stanford and, sure enough, they found that it's a poison. You can rub a clove of garlic on your foot - on the sole of your foot - and you can smell it shortly later on your wrists. So it penetrates the body. This is why DMSO smells a lot like garlic: that sulphone hydroxyl ion penetrates all the barriers including the corpus callosum in the brain. Any of you who are organic gardeners know that if you don't want to use DDT, garlic will kill anything in the way of insects. Now, most people have heard most of their lives that garlic is good for you, and we put those people in the same class of ignorance as the mothers who at the turn of the century would buy morphine sulphate in the drugstore and give it to their babies to put 'em to sleep. If you have any patients who have low-grade headaches or attention deficit [disorder], they can't quite focus on the computer in the afternoon, just do an experiment - you owe it to yourselves. Take those people off garlic and see how much better they get, very,very shortly. And then let them eat a little garlic after about three weeks. They'll say: "My God, I had no idea that this was the cause of our problems." And this includes the de-skunked garlic's, Kyolic, some of the other products. Very unpopular, but I've got to tell you the truth. (Source: From a lecture by Dr Robert [Bob] C. Beck, DSc., given at the Whole Life Expo, Seattle, WA, USA, in March 1996)
Bob Beck also found in his research on human brain function in the 1980's that garlic has a detrimental effect on the brain and researching this further he learned that many yoga groups and philosophical teachings caution against the use of garlic and onions as they are known to interfere with meditation practices. Some aware individuals have actually described themselves as experiencing brain fog after having garlic.
The Harmful Effects of Garlic

Garlic is toxic to humans because its sulphone hydroxyl ions penetrate the blood-brain barrier and are poisonous to brain cells.(1) For precisely the same reason the garlic family of plants has been widely recognized as being harmful to dogs.(2)
As far back as the 1950s it was known that garlic reduced reaction time by two to three times when consumed by pilots taking flight tests. This is because the toxic effects of garlic desynchronize brain waves.

The Taoists realized thousands of years ago that plants of the alliaceous family were detrimental to humans.(3) They labeled this group of plants ­ onions, garlic, leeks, chives and spring onions the 'five spicy-scented plants.' They noticed that onions are harmful to the lungs, garlic to the heart, leeks to the spleen, chives to the liver and spring onions to the kidneys. Hindus also avoid this group, which they have called the 'five pungent plants.'(4) As well as producing offensive breath and body odour, these plants induce aggravation, agitation, anxiety and aggression. Thus they are harmful physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

Even when garlic is used as food in Chinese culture it is considered harmful to the stomach, liver and eyes, and a cause of dizziness and scattered energy when consumed in immoderate amounts.(5) Nor is garlic always seen as having entirely beneficial properties in Western cooking and medicine. It is widely accepted among health care professionals that, as well as killing harmful bacteria, garlic also destroys beneficial bacteria,(6) which are essential to the proper functioning of the digestive system. Furthermore, Ken Bergeron, in Professional Vegetarian Cooking, p. 16, writes: "garlic in the raw state can carry harmful (potentially fatal) botulism bacteria." Perhaps it is with an awareness of this that the Roman poet Horace wrote of garlic that it is "more harmful than hemlock."(7)

In the practice of Reiki, we have noticed that garlic and onions are some of the first toxic substances that are expelled from a person's system along with tobacco, alcohol and pharmaceutical medications. This makes it apparent that alliaceous plants have a negative effect on the human body and should be avoided for health reasons. Homeopathic medicine comes to the same conclusion when it recognizes that red onion produces a dry cough, watery eyes, sneezing, runny nose and other familiar cold-related symptoms when consumed.(8)

I have slowly, and sort of instinctively, stopped using garlic and onions since going raw. Something about the "residue" that seems to linger not only on the breath, but also in the body that disturbs me.

Yuck.

It is exactly the antibiotic property of garlic that makes it unhealthful. Garlic can kill bacteria, and if blended with water, can be used as an insecticide to kill garden and household insects. If garlic can kill an ant, it can also kill cells in your body. This is why when you first eat garlic, your body drops all healing activities (say like a sore throat or mild cold) in the body so that the body can focus on removing the garlic from your body. It just a few minutes after its consumption, garlic is being removed out through the sweat glands in your skin. There are very few edible substances to which your body will have this reaction.

For people who are currently enjoying garlic and onions, try not eating them for 90 days, and then see how it feels to start eating them again after a break. You might find that it doesn't feel as good as it used to feel.

I can tolerate garlic, but it is not high on my list. However, I absolutely crave onions - what do you make of that? I could eat them for every meal.

I think it seems judgmental to say that someone is orthorexic or not as logical as another because one wants to avoid garlic and onion. Until there is nutrients in garlic and onions that I absolutely need that aren't available anywhere else, until I can make a meal out of that, until it doesn't putrify your body, call me "orthorexic" then.

What does the garlic and onion debate have to do with Orthorexia? Feel like I missed something in this thread. It's about avoiding anything that you see as "unhealthy" not anything particular.


I think it started with the whole high fructose corn syrup thing. A lot of people have dropped eating products that contain it over the past few years and they lost money out of it. Now we have commercials promoting it "in moderation" and now we have Orthorexia because they found there were a lot of FDA approved foods that people want to avoid. Then before that there was low carb diets but that fad died down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 12:23AM by BackAgain.

powerlifer Wrote:

> Saying that in the last thread we had about this i
> agreed with the poster who said that those who
> think foods such as garlic and onion are unhealthy
> even though they've been proven multiple times as
> being healthy are verging towards the orthorexic
> side of things.

---
This is where the garlic/onion thing came in, FYI.

concerning the article about garlic (posted by Prana)

which deemed that garlic was bad for the heart, i've read plenty in which the contrary was "proven"

I also read where garlic actually helped with the propagation of pro biotic life forms in the intestines and not the contrary ( the article states that garlic kills pro biotic forms)

I also wish to know if the brain wave aberrations are permanent or temporary, meaning... are brain cells actually "killed"? Has this been proven? Or does the energy of the garlic cause or instigate a preponderant activity in certain lobes of the brain etc. which is what is seen on the brain wave reading charts.

I will say that I actually do notice the "brain fog" thing when I have consumed garlic (sometimes)_ so I do believe it has some credence. I also think that for those who are traveling to other countries, it will behoove them to have some garlic with them to ward off or kill parasites.

True, all plants have chemicals in them that have the potential to be beneficial or harmful ( and this can also differ depending on the individual). If plant chemicals weren't so powerful, they would not be the source for all pharmaceutical products out there which pretty much compound the effects of the plant chemicals to begin with.

Depending upon the individual, it is good to view ALL plants as a potential "drug" and study their properties and decide for themselves whether it is more beneficial or harmful. Let's not forget all the debates that occurred concerning cruciferous vegetables which were especially an issue for those who had thyroid conditions. I have zero thyroid conditions. Mine operates wonderfully so I will continues consuming them. I would however not recommend
those with thyroid conditions to casually consume cruciferous vegetables ( like kale etc.) unless they knew of ways to counteract their effects etc.

Plants are a drug. Why? Because they possess chemicals that have the power to alter a person's condition. Mostly, its a 'good" drug. At other times, these benefits come with a cost. Accept this fact and you won't be surprised when this board has a million debates ( all great debates by the way) concerning the qualities of this or that food item.

Just imagine that this is a drug forum and we are just happily pondering the effects of this or that drug disguised in plant form.

It's natural that all plants will not please every-buddy.

Plants were not born to gain approval. They were also created with properties to preserve themselves as well. This includes exuding chemicals that are inimicus to the members of the Animal Kingdom. yes, that is right. Plant Kingdom and Animal Kingdom do not necessarily go together. Members of the Animal Kingdom kill destroy and consume members of the Plant Kingdom. is it any WONDER that members of the Plant Kingdom have evolved highly developed "defense" systems to ward off ( albeit not completely) members of the Animal Kingdom. Kingdom Animalius... yep, that's US

I personally think the term orthorexic is the type of label that either Nestles, Nabisco, Kellogs, McDonalds, Walmart , Webers Bread, Ritz Crackers,or Skippy's Peanut Butter would come up with. ( Hey, maybe I repeated myself. I can't keep track of which company gobbled up what company and what products they own anymore).

People who are committed to enjoying superb health WILL research and be discriminating about what foods they choose to eat or not eat and make conscientious choices and take action that is in alignment with their beliefs.


If a person is able to be choosy but also have the attitude that this is an adventure and have a curious and fun attitude towards their journey, then its a wonderful thing to give the body the highest form of nutrients that they deem is necessary. If feeling good, healthy, radiant and vibrant is desirable and deemed and "obsession", then so be it. Einstein was obsessed with certain theories of light, speed, energy etc. and his obsession laid down certain foundations in physics. Not a bad thing, in my book.

I'm confused. I followed the thread about garlic, then read the thread about orthorexia. In the middle of the orthorexia thread there were messages about garlic!

Please could the garlic messages be reposted to the garlic thread?

debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm confused. I followed the thread about garlic,
> then read the thread about orthorexia. In the
> middle of the orthorexia thread there were
> messages about garlic!
>
> Please could the garlic messages be reposted to
> the garlic thread?


lol. Glad it wasn't just me.

as more than two people here pointed out

there is a relationship between the two subjects

which is probably why there are posts here concerning garlic

and if you want to see posts on garlic alone

it is one tiny finger click away

That article was aload of guff on garlic. As stated the inulin in garlic acts as a prebiotic which feeds the good flora. Ill come back to more points later when i get the time.

Ive seen no credible information which suggests garlic is neurotoxic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 07:43AM by powerlifer.

It's one thing to avoid cheese and meat, bread, processed foods, even all cooked foods, but IMO worrying about garlic, green peppers, herbs and spices, fruit, greens, etc etc etc, all the delicious healthy natural foods that are here on the planet for us to eat... ya, I think that qualifies as orthorexic. If you don't like something, don't eat it, but to worry about the health impact of garlic? Too far for me.

So those who don't think garlic should be consumed are 'orthorexic', are they? Oh well!

Green peppers - well, they're unripe and less digestible than ripe ones. Having grown peppers, I know that they take a looong time to ripen. So, for profit reasons, they love to sell them to us unripe. I don't see that choosing to eat ripe peppers (after all, red are plentiful) is 'orthorexic'!

Herbs and spices - well, Natural Hygienists don't. But perhaps you think they're orthorexic. I differ.

Fruit, greens? Who's 'worrying' about fruit and greens?

It strikes me that those who label raw foodists who simly have different food preferences to themselves (and good reasons why) are just as bad as those who label raw foodists 'per se' 'orthorexic' just because they won't eat meat and dairy.

Let's live and let live, eh? Coco, you may be a garlic fan, but some of us here aren't, and if anyone has taken the trouble to read my blog article on it (see garlic thread) you'll see that, actually, there are some good (and interesting) reasons to avoid it. But, sure, if you and others disagree, that's fine, and also interesting. None of can be absolutely sure about anything! But let's simply discuss them without throwing out judgements that those who choose not to eat foods we think are the bee's knees are 'orthorexic'!

I, Prana and many others manage to enjoy a varied raw food diet full of, I'd say, over a year, hundreds of delicious raw foods. Just because we don't go for the stinky bulb doesn't 'qualify' us as having an ED!

I agree with coco, i was only suggesting garlic and onions because they are the main ones which get the heat. There not to everyones tastes so they can be excused.

But he is right orthorexia is classified as those who even have problems with healthy foods. Eliminating herbs, spices, peppers and such.

Why dont we just not include fruits and vegetables also, they have proven medicinal alkaloids, anti-bacteria/fungal/viral properties, circulatory benefits surely there medicinal also and we shouldnt consume anything which has health promoting benefits?

Like coco said i understand why those take away unhealthy foods such as meat/cheese, dairy and so on but not why we have to start getting rid of healthy foods also and from what i can see there is no scientific bases to do so. If you dont like garlic and onions thats fairs fair no one is suggesting your orthorexic for doing so, just that alienating healthy foods with no just reason is.

debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It strikes me that those who label raw foodists
> who simly have different food preferences to
> themselves (and good reasons why) are just as bad
> as those who label raw foodists 'per se'
> 'orthorexic' just because they won't eat meat and
> dairy.

> I, Prana and many others manage to enjoy a varied
> raw food diet full of, I'd say, over a year,
> hundreds of delicious raw foods. Just because we
> don't go for the stinky bulb doesn't 'qualify' us
> as having an ED!


I agree, and would diagnose those who talk about the non-garlic eaters as "orthorexic" or having a "problem" with "ignorance."

I can see that many small minded people will define orthorexia as having a diet that is more restricted than one's own diet. So for a vegetarian, a vegan might appear orthorexic. Or for a raw vegan who eat some toxic items (cacao, garlic, or whatever), someone else omitting those items will appear orthorexic.

The problem with restriction in diet is when it starts to interfere with one's well being and one's ability to function in life. That I omit garlic and salt and other spices from my life does not interfere with my well being, my health, or my life, but rather for me, enhances it.

Its OK for people to eat garlic or other spices if they so like. Your body is quite resilient, and it will heal in spite of the stuff that you put in your body that might not serve. It this stuff tastes good to you, then eat it. But it not necessary to define others who opt to not include these things as being mentally ill.