Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with restriction in diet is when it
> starts to interfere with one's well being and
> one's ability to function in life. That I omit
> garlic and salt and other spices from my life does
> not interfere with my well being, my health, or my
> life, but rather for me, enhances it.
>
> Its OK for people to eat garlic or other spices if
> they so like. Your body is quite resilient, and it
> will heal in spite of the stuff that you put in
> your body that might not serve. It this stuff
> tastes good to you, then eat it. But it not
> necessary to define others who opt to not include
> these things as being mentally ill.


No kidding, and it's not like we're judging someone for choosing TO EAT GARLIC. We don't even care. We just state our reasons for not wanting to eat it.

what an interesting conversation this has turned out to be. didn't expect all the information about garlic and onions but i suppose it is an added benefit... a funny side note is that i used to eat tons of garlic and onions... and my dad used to get down right angry with the way it would make me smell... then as my diet progressed i stopped eating it more because it started causing me such painful gas but then i smelled a man who had eaten some garlic and onion in a store I was in and laughed remembering how angry my father would get... i never realized how powerful it was... I've used it as a healing tool for years when i would get flu/ sick I would use it as an antibiotic... but now that I am mostly raw... I don't get flu/ sick anymore...

Ok now back to the original topic... First of all Orthorexia was created by a Medical Dr who practiced alternative medicine and got so obsessively focused on healthy foods that it interfered with the pure enjoyment of life, family and friends... which is more by definition of what an eating disorder is... it becomes an unhealthy obsession in this case with healthy foods and can actually cause people to become more unhealthy and in a few cases has caused death. Like the anorexic thinking he or she is never thin enough... an orthorexic never believes they are healthy enough or their food is pure enough.

The orthorexic becomes so obsessed with the purity of their foods that it interferes with their life or even becomes a crutch to use to quite possible avoid life or the things they are afraid of... or even a way to make decisions by like dating or not dating someone that eats garlic or onions... No one is judging anyone hear for eating these things... but the orthorexic does... and maybe my father...Ha Ha... the Orthorexic judges him or herself and others by the quality of their food.

I find it rather interesting as I am reading about it. I do see how someone outside the raw foods world would see my diet as orthorexic because I do have a rather restrictive diet even with in the raw foods... so much so that i have started experimenting with a few cooked things for variety but what frustrates me is that i am not so much concerned with the purity of my food as I am with how it makes me feel because there are very few things in the food world that make me feel great.

And though of course I Choose what I eat and don't eat I don't really feel like I had much of a choice when I eat garlic and it makes my belly swell up like a woman 9 months pregnant with enough pain to make me want to go though labor to birth all the gas... It's a simple... but not always easy... "choice" So am I orthorexic because I am obsessed with not being in pain?

As I write this to you though it makes me wonder if it is just another piece of the healing puzzle for me to look at to realize that healing myself in a natural way which i have chosen to do mostly by altering my diet is still in a way "self medicating" and that I haven't as of yet gotten to the core of the problem... that I am still... like many western medical doctors treating the symptoms quite likely causing some of those symptoms ... but still not realizing the root cause!!!

I do not believe that all rawfoodists are orthorexic but i do believe that many an orthorexic is drawn to the rawfoods way of life... and I also figured there would be some strong opinions about this here and some good wisdom as many of you live the lifestyle I would like to stay closest too. so thank you and I look forward to reading more!

Love laugh and dream

luvyuu,

You sound like you are using that incisive brain of yours to really get to the bottom of things. I value your contributions here; thanks for starting this thread, and hope you continue to move toward health. Safe and prosperous journey to you, dear

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally think the term orthorexic is the type
> of label that either Nestles, Nabisco, Kellogs,
> McDonalds, Walmart , Webers Bread, Ritz
> Crackers,or Skippy's Peanut Butter would come up
> with. ( Hey, maybe I repeated myself. I can't keep
> track of which company gobbled up what company and
> what products they own anymore).
>
> People who are committed to enjoying superb
> health WILL research and be discriminating about
> what foods they choose to eat or not eat and make
> conscientious choices and take action that is in
> alignment with their beliefs.
>
>
> If a person is able to be choosy but also have the
> attitude that this is an adventure and have a
> curious and fun attitude towards their journey,
> then its a wonderful thing to give the body the
> highest form of nutrients that they deem is
> necessary. If feeling good, healthy, radiant and
> vibrant is desirable and deemed and "obsession",
> then so be it. Einstein was obsessed with certain
> theories of light, speed, energy etc. and his
> obsession laid down certain foundations in
> physics. Not a bad thing, in my book.


Great post, la_v!

I can still see that nobody realy knows what "Orthorexia" is, as it is a made-up term to make people worried about "health food junkies". But EVEN IF YOU ARE"orthorexic" (which actually means nothing) you are still, chances are, much, much healthier than the HEALTHIEST "SAD" person. You can be the most not "orthorexic" on "SAD" diet, and listen to the best advice from all doctors, but if you eat red meat, bread, salt and sugar - you are sick!

So, enough of this fake discussion, as there is not ONE PERSON EVER DIAGNOSED, nor will there ever be. This is a make-believe story, but those are rather dangerous lately, as government has a total control over everything, and they can come up with anything. In communism, they would put the policical opponents in the mental institution, claiming that not being a communist is a mental desease. This "orthorxia" reminds me of that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2010 08:28PM by rab.

I don't know why you're so threatened by a disorder, if you will, or behavior, that some healthy people or raw foodists get labeled. Why would you let someone else's opinion bother you? Is it because you are extremely concious about healthy eating and get criticised for it? Whether it's personal or not, so what? If Orthorexia exists, and people have been exhibiting these behaviors before they knew a name was designated for it, and enough separate people acted like this that it warranted classification, it must be something real. Most people suffering from Orthorexia have eating disorders, and are not just raw foodists. Some raw foodists seem to be very obsessive over what they eat (in my opinion, the garlic/onion toxicity thing is a kind of example, or people forcing, not choosing, themselves to adhere to an 80/10/10 type diet), but that could be because this diet is very... special, and if you do it right your body and spirit go through many changes.

I don't think an 80 pound orthorexic-anorexic is healthier than someone on a SAD diet, who could be at a normal weight, suffer from no mental disorders, sleep well, exercise, and eat normal sized meals at regular intervals. Both sick? Perhaps.

There has been no "orthorexic-anorexic" diagnosed ever. So, what are you exactly talking about? Maybe you just wanted to talk about anorexia? I have never heard of an anorexic raw foodist, ever, never at all in my life. So, please alaborate this valuable "scientific" comment of yours, cyclopsicle, as it makes no sense to me.

As far as garlic - it is very toxic. Simple chemical analysis will show that. This is not a matter of opinion, this is a fact. So, if I don't want to eat garlic, as it is realy bad for me, I am an "orthorexic-anorexic" (with 190 lb and eating tons of fruit every day), and you are "reasonable' and not "orthorexic-anorexic" because you eat garlic every day.

I am tired of even talking to people who care so little about logic.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 01:07AM by rab.

rab,

There was a kid that used to post on YouTube as "My Own Stick Figure" that was, I believe, a clinically diagnosed orthorexic; it started as a plain anorexia diagnosis, but additional food obsessive characteristics made this diagnosis inadequate(I am citing this from perhaps faulty memory, and his page is unavailable now). This is a new diagnosis, so there may be more cases of it in the future. Stay tuned.

rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There has been no "orthorexic-anorexic" diagnosed
> ever. So, what are you exactly talking about?
> Maybe you just wanted to talk about anorexia? I
> have never heard of an anorexic raw foodist, ever,
> never at all in my life. So, please alaborate this
> valuable "scientific" comment of yours,
> cyclopsicle, as it makes no sense to me.
>
> As far as garlic - it is very toxic. Simple
> chemical analysis will show that. This is not a
> matter of opinion, this is a fact. So, if I don't
> want to eat garlic, as it is realy bad for me, I
> am an "orthorexic-anorexic" (with 190 lb and
> eating tons of fruit every day), and you are
> "reasonable' and not "orthorexic-anorexic" because
> you eat garlic every day.
>
> I am tired of even talking to people who care so
> little about logic.


Alcohol is also a poison, but in small, occasional quantities it is very nice. However, I myself never consume it. I don't criticize people who do, because they might have a strong liver that has no problem immediately detoxifying it. A wee bit o' "poison" is sometimes a nice medicine or tonic, depending on the circumstances.

How can someone not be anorexic and a raw foodist at the same time? Just because you haven't heard of something or don't believe in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Not eating garlic and onions doesn't make one eating disordered. What I meant was that some people have really far out arguments for why they don't. That doesn't mean they're not acceptable, I mean, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I don't even care about garlic and onions, it's such a damn stupid debate. People should be able to eat whatever they want within reason, which I think we all have an idea of, and get on with their lives. People are so obsessed about what others eat, especially on this board. People also think that by studying their bodies and their diets, they can make accurate, true facts for the entire world. "If I eat 60 bananas, 30 mangoes, and 4 pounds of lettuce a day and my teeth don't rot out and I have boundless energy, EVERYONE can MUST thrive on this diet and it will never cause deficiencies! I've been doing it for 3 years!"

I'm just saying think outside the box and what do you get by claiming these disorders are untrue?

Switching from SAD to raw is a major override of the past patterns, and so the impression might be that a person is too focused on the diet, and hence orthorexic. As long as a person has a life and does not focus on food only all the time, then I see no problem however.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

Utopian Life Wrote:
> No kidding, and it's not like we're judging
> someone for choosing TO EAT GARLIC. We don't even
> care. We just state our reasons for not wanting
> to eat it.

The thing that bugs me though is when lets say someone who eats garlic posts something like... "Any new ideas for using garlic", then you get 20 replies from people that have to post that they don't and that it's bad and the thread then turns into a debate.

If the thread isn't asking for opinions or why you don't eat it..Why not move on and ignore the thread of things you don't eat. People tend to "state their reasons for not wanting to eat it" when their reasons weren't asked for.

cyclopsicle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can someone not be anorexic and a raw foodist
> at the same time? Just because you haven't heard
> of something or don't believe in it doesn't mean
> it doesn't exist.

This.

Personally, I never hear of "raw foodists" much in real life. Most of them I've heard of are online like on this forum. You don't always know someone's whole story on an internet forum like this. I'm sure there's anorexics among us. They just don't announce it.

I'm sure if you find a pro-ana forum, you will find lots of raw anorexics bragging that all they ate today was some celery and an apple which was less than 100 calories. I know they've made their way to Curezone.com and do things like salt water flushes and other cleansing protocols.
One might come here asking if a bowl of lettuce was a good raw meal and we'd probably tell them it is and they'd feel welcome. Not having any idea that all they eat EVERY DAY is a bowl of lettuce a day for the last month. It's "raw" and it's annorexic. They are eating a raw food..can we not call them raw?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 04:39AM by BackAgain.

Oh, look what I found. This is interesting.

The "pro-ana rainbow diet". Look at all those raw foods for under 300 calories that contain the colors of the rainbow.

[ediesangel.blogspot.com]
[www.golivewire.com]

Still think there's no such thing as anorexic raw foodists?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 04:44AM by BackAgain.

holy @#$%& that ana blog is horrifying

david

Thanks for posting that Backagain - unfortunately that is very common. Raw foodism is very attractive to people with eating disorders for obvious reasons.

I think as a previous poster mentioned we do need to be careful what we say - like the bowl of lettuce example - yes it is a healthy meal SO LONG as sufficient calories are eaten during the day etc etc

I don't know, were they anorexic before or after going raw? If they were anorexic prior, I wouldn't call them an anorexic raw foodist, but an anorexic who eats some raw foods.

Wow that is horrifying and very sad, 88 calories some days for total intake. These girls are not going to last long which is a real shame as they obvious have very strong mental health issues.

I hope they get help before its too late

If a person doesn't like the taste or reaction they have to a certain food, that is an entirely valid and understandable reason to avoid it. However, and I do see this quite a bit in the raw food community, if a person is discarding a food from their diet because of popular (though often completely unproven) belief or suspicion, I personally think the motivation behind that is flawed. When a person of some authority, say a moderator of a forum or a long time raw foodist or frequent poster refers to "studies" with no actual scientific basis, or to passively aggressively state that a certain food is bad for the health of EVERYONE but "if you feel like eating it go ahead, your body can heal from that mistake"... Well, you see my point. Even though that *seems* supportive of personal choice on the surface, it really isn't, is it? That sort of attitude is manipulative at best and undermining of genuine personal discovery at worst.

So... I will choose whether or not to consume certain foods based on how they taste to me and how my body personally reacts to them. And I don't for a minute think that I'm doing myself damage any more with garlic or onion than I am with peppers, cabbage, spinach, sesame seeds, or any of the MANY other foods I've seen debated in this manner on this site over the years. Goitrogens, oxalic acid, etc etc etc. I'm going to give that sort of unhealthy obsessive nitpicking a rest.

Cross posted to the garlic and onion thread.

Orthorexia is a genuine condition but it is used in a general term.

I did a youtube vid about.

[www.youtube.com]

Orthorexic is someone with super hypochondria when it comes to health. like me saying 'i cant eat those dates cos they sat next to a fridge for 34 minutes and i can feel the emr's radiating out of the kirlian aura surrounding the dates kundalini rising...

i cant eat those mangoes cos that dude has bad energy that is standing next to them. the water purity will be damaged and that will affect my mood. im sorry.

if i eat a piece of raw meat and get rushed to hospital from food poisoning, its actually a cleanse and its building my health. but if i get food poisoning from cooked meat its bad for me. what? yeah of course the symptoms are exactly the same :fever, vomiting, porcelain shattering diarrhea, bleeding, yellow eyes, chronic fatigue..but one is a cleanse from the e coli bacteria, botulism, rota viruses etc and the other one is...well...i cant really explain it, youll just have to ask aajonus.

the fruit is picked green, stored and shipped around the world. so i cant be raw. so please pass me the cooked food that is NEVER ripe, also shipped around the world and stored in silo's for up to 20 years or comes from cans with no use by date..

oh my god, i just ate microscopic nematodes on my grape skin! im not a vegan anymore! quick give me a steak before someone calls me a hypocrit!

we wouldnt drink from plastic bottles in nature so im not going to drink water unless im at a pristine stream. im going to drink coconuts, and eat fruit instead. no im not dehydrated! STOP ATTACKING ME! FCUK YOU!

i know ive shattered my ankle in 5 places from falling out of a coconut tree but please dont give me anathestic cos its not healthy stuff. i will just lay here whilst you's try and operate and i promise i wont flinch a bit when your grinding the bone to put a plate in it...

i make sure i eat kangaroo shite cos i saw my dog do it and maybe its healthy?

i cant eat bananas or dates cos they are hybridised. what? all living things are hybrids? but thats not what david jubb said at his infomercial talk. david jubb smokes cigarettes? maybe its cos he lives on the same street that sells bananas and he is getting hybrid chakra demon energy from them?

aajonus vonderplanitz said i should put a 46gram piece of 3 year old female horse heart in a square jar and put it in the fridge for 387 days and then eat it the first hour after the full moon on the 5th sunday of the month..so i did and i paid him 400$ to tell me that.

durianrider isnt raw cos he rides in temperatures over 50 celcius and he doesnt eat wholefood cos he doesnt eat banana skins or durian shells..

that sort of stuff..

ive found that orthorexia is cured by a few months of intense physical exercise done on a weekly/ twice weekly basis. that tends to put things in perspective.

its funny, all the orthorexics i know, none of them are fit. and i can see that they are so starved of nutrients, glycogen, water etc that they feel really, really bad and are willing to try and or buy anything in the pursuit to feel better. so most of the above are true statements ive heard and i dont mean to make fun of people. my goal is to let people know there is the way to feel better and thats by getting enough sleep, water, sugar and then building on from there..

Orthorexia, or orthorexia nervosa is a term coined by Steven Bratman, a Colorado MD, to denote an eating disorder characterized by a focus on eating healthy foods.Bratman coined the term in 1997 from the Greek orthos, "correct or right", and orexis for "appetite".

When we first wake up to the fact that our cultural and food habits are killing us and destroying what it is to be human...we come from such a broken deprivation condition that our corrective energy also tends to be pathological. This is partly due to the fact that food has been used as the principle communal addiction, succor, bribe, emotional-stuffer and consciousness suppressor. The call back to life and sanity requires that we ultimately relax into a joy and celebration of life and learn to nurture ourselves fully without pedantry, self-righteousness, fear or neurotic punishment.

Isn't this just another attempt by government (Bratman being just a willing messanger) to scare the public from the natural food? Mark all "bad examples" as crazy, sick?

rab,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but do you really disagree that someone who eschews all bananas but 4"-long red bananas because they believe yellow bananas are unhealthy, on zero scientific basis, doesn't have at least a pre-disorder? C'mon. There is no need for CT or slander (I wouldn't presume this Dr. Bratman is in cahoots with evil forces). Logic dictates that an unreasonable preoccupation with qualifying healthy foods isn't normal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 02:17PM by Tamukha.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know, were they anorexic before or after
> going raw? If they were anorexic prior, I
> wouldn't call them an anorexic raw foodist, but an
> anorexic who eats some raw foods.


Wow. Some of you really twist things around to in attempts to preserve your "raw foodist'" label.

BackAgain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utopian Life Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know, were they anorexic before or
> after
> > going raw? If they were anorexic prior, I
> > wouldn't call them an anorexic raw foodist, but
> an
> > anorexic who eats some raw foods.
>
>
> Wow. Some of you really twist things around to in
> attempts to preserve your "raw foodist'"
> label.[www.smileys.me.uk]
> lleye.gif


are you speaking to or about me, mr eyeroll?

if a person is anorexic and just happens to only eat bread, does that make them vegan if the bread is vegan? Uhm, no. common sense, sweety.


eta: i'm a raw foodist regardless of what other people do or what a person with a mental disorder claims they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 05:22PM by Utopian Life.

Tamukha, I would say - if they eat enough of those red bananas, and they are healthy, it is a perfectly fine choice for me. They may have a misunderstanding about the science, but they are not harming themselves, so let them be. No diagnosis there.

The only behaviour that deserves a diagnosis is the one the harms self or others.
Everything else is just a choice.

So, if you know tobacco is bad and you still smoke, what is your diagnosis? Nicotine addict? How is that legal? If you know that meat and cheese give you cholesterol and you still eat them and take pills, what is the diagnosis for that? Those are some serious questions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 06:18PM by rab.

I think the other way to twist it in a sort of orthorexic view would be to still consume tobacco even though its been proven unhealthy in numerous proper studies and make up some pseudoview that its fine to consume. Much like many orthorexics wont consume healthy foods even though they have been proven to be healthy.

All due respect, powerlifer, but what you have written makes no sense at all. Try again.

It OBVIOUSLY is not the same. Nicotin addicts harm themselves to a point of CERTAIN serious illness and death, harming others along the way. People who you call "orthorexic" simply would not eat some of the foods you consider healthy - but they eat other healthy foods, and their health is fine. How can that be compared to such a serious addiction like the one to nicotin? I can only see a very ill intent or a total ignorance of any logic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 06:58PM by rab.

For example, there are, unfortunately, millions of kids who don't like fruit. And they are alowed to live like that. But no, "orthorexic" is reserved for people who eat healthy. Yet, there is no dianosis for "junk food" generation, they are just - children.

Maybe, maybe there are one or two "orthorexic" people in the whole USA. Probably a dozen in the whole wide world. Yet, the topic gets into the media. Why?

It was poor logic but of the same mind an orthorexic has towards food. They make up there own science or logic towards a food which is deemed healthy as unhealthy.