Seaweed is certainly a rich source of sodium and iodine. But too much iodine is as bad as too little. Hyperthyroidism is the price of excess. In lower amounts, some people suffer cosmetically from excess: it aggravates their acne. Nor is it possible to calculate the amount of intake; FNB don't publish iodine-content because it varies so much from plant to plant, and from season to season.

I think taste is a good guide to how much seaweed is too much. Some years ago I felt a strong desire for some, and added wakame every day for a week to my salad. Then I got sick of it, and didn't eat any until about two months ago. Since then I've been having a small amount twice a week.

In general I think that taste is quite a good guide to what you need, as long as you don't trust it with highly processed foods. Nor would I trust taste too far with fats and oils, which are scarce in nature.

I would not eat something which I didn't like the taste of just because it was supposed to be good for me. Wild animals stay fit without eating foods which they don't like. If you don't enjoy food, then how can you digest it well?

I didn't find Doug Graham's diatribe against seaweed convincing. He wrote to the effect that man shouldn't eat from the sea because he is a land animal. By that logic, bears should not eat fish, and man should not eat fruit that he has to climb a tree to get. He added that slimy seaweed washed up on the shore has no food-appeal. But neither does a ripe fruit that has dropped splat into mud. (I follow 80/10/10 btw)

Another issue with seaweed that came up recently was that alginates might inhibit fat absorption by 75%. This was touted as a benefit, but I see it as a drawback.

Seaweeds absorb heavy metals and other pollutants, like other marine life. It's important to check that it comes from an unpolluted source.

The alginates are thought to bind to the metals if any are present and render them useless.

Also it is thought that excess iodine just gets eliminated in the urine which is why the Japanese who's dietary iodine intake is very high dont suffer from hyperthyroidism very often, infact the therapeutic effects of a high iodine diet have been praised over in Japan for reducing the risk of cancer and other health issues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 12:39PM by powerlifer.

Right, iodine is a water soluble element, so your body should just pee out excess like a B vitamin. Hyperthyroidism is rare, and certainly aggravated by iodine intake. But who knows what the precursor disorder is? The more I read about it, the more I think things like Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, for example, probably presents first as subclinical hypothyroidism from iodine deficiency, with the Hashimto's being a hysterical final step if untreated.

Lee H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seaweed is certainly a rich source of sodium and
> iodine. But too much iodine is as bad as too
> little. Hyperthyroidism is the price of excess...

You're right Lee H. If I might add, too much iodine can result in either hyper or hypothyroidism depending on the case. It takes time for the body to adapt to high levels of iodine.

"It is important not to over-consume iodine as it has a relatively narrow range of intakes that reliably support good thyroid function (about 100 to 300 micrograms per day). Someone consuming large amounts of iodised salt or seaweeds could readily overdo it. Excessive iodine has a complex disruptive effect on the thyroid and may cause either hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism, in susceptible individuals, as well as increasing the risk of thyroid cancer. Hyperthyroidism may also occur, particularly in elderly people, due to long term slight iodine deficiency as this may result in additional nodules on the thyroid."

[www.vegansociety.com]

The iodine levels that linked article lists are extremely outdated, loeve. And the theory about excess iodine(there is no such thing in the modern human diet) was never actually scientifically established. The latest medical research appears to be a Chinese study done a few years ago under vague circumstances using subjects already presenting with abnormal thyroid function. In the past, the radioactive isotope was used to establish values, and, being toxic, necessarily set levels low. I cannot find a single case of a healthy person developing hyperthyroidism from natural, soluble iodine from food or supplements. This is why there is so much confusion out there, and people need to do a lot of research and consult doctors well versed in the latest data. I tend to think that if the American population were getting sufficient iodine, we would not have epidemic rates of mammary cancer and childhood cognitive disorders.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The latest medical research appears
> to be a Chinese study done a few years ago under
> vague circumstances using subjects already
> presenting with abnormal thyroid function.

See:
[www.nejm.org]

This Chinese study was carried out on 3018 subjects over a 5-year period under well-defined circumstances. Only 0.4% suffered from overt or subclinical hypothyroidism at the outset.

It was found that the iodization of salt did not reduce the incidence of thyroid disorders, but had the opposite effect:

"High iodine intake has been reported to initiate and exacerbate infiltration of the thyroid by lymphocytes in genetically susceptible BB/W rats17 and NOD.H-2h4 mice. Our results suggest that both more than adequate and excessive levels of iodine intake may increase the incidence and prevalence of autoimmune thyroiditis in humans. Autoimmune thyroiditis appeared to be the main cause of overt hypothyroidism in this observational study. High iodine intake may trigger and exacerbate autoimmune thyroiditis, increasing the likelihood of overt hypothyroidism."
...
"Levels that are more than adequate (median urinary iodine excretion, 200 to 299 ug per liter) or excessive (median urinary iodine excretion, >300 ug per liter) do not appear to be safe, especially for susceptible populations with either potential autoimmune thyroid diseases or iodine deficiency."

It may be that the iodine bound organically in seaweed is safer than the inorganic iodine added to table salt. But there have been reports of people suffering from kelp supplements.

It is true that much excess iodine is urinated out. But the same is true of salt: a high-salt diet results in higher urinary excretion of sodium. That does not imply that high levels of salt are harmless.

Thanks, Lee H, for the link to the study in China, which cautions in their conclusion about increasing iodine intakes in regions where it is already more than adequate, like the county that had high naturally occuring iodine in their water supply.

The European Union (2002) notes that areas with traditionally ample iodine intake (like Japan) need not monitor iodine intake quite the same way as a chronically iodine deficient region.

"5. DERIVATION OF A TOLERABLE UPPER INTAKE LEVEL (UL)
...In the US the Standing Committee on the Scientific Evaluation of Dietary Reference Intakes of the Food and Nutrition Board together with Health Canada are pursuing a joint project 20 which proposes a tolerable upper level of intake for iodine for adults of 1100 pg/day (US Food and Nutrition Board, 2001). WHO has suggested a provisional maximal tolerable daily intake of 1 mg/day from all sources, equivalent to 17 pg/kg bw (WHO, 1988). In countries with long-standing IDD the intake should not exceed 500 pg/day to avoid the occurrence of hyperthyroidism. In France the Expert Committee on Human Nutrition has suggested an UL of 500 pg I/day in countries with long-standing IDD to avoid the occurrence of hyperthyroidism (AFSSA, 2001)." [ec.europa.eu]

Iodine induced hyperthyroidism is actually quite rare, the leading causes of hyperthyroidism is graves disease and thyroiditis.

I don't doubt it, powerlifer, the Japanese get on average 50 to 80 times the WHO upper limit yet don't seem to suffer, yet the warnings persist for those who exceed the "10-fold normal value" --

"3.2.2 Excessive intake from food
In the normal human thyroid there is no real evidence that moderate acute excess iodine intake decreases thyroidal uptake of iodine largely because the variable dietary intakes do not appear to affect the serum levels of the thyroid hormones, the TSH level or the size of the thyroid gland. The normal amounts of iodine occurring in food do not cause goitre, thyrotoxicosis or iodine acne, only if intakes rise beyond the 10-fold normal value. Acute iodine excess increases thyroid hormone synthesis 10-20 fold while chronic iodine excess increases synthesis only 2-4 fold. Chronic intake of moderate or large doses of iodine decreases the serum level of thyroid hormones, increases TSH serum levels, increases the TSH response to TRH, and increases the size of the thyroid gland. In a random trial in Wales some participants received 500 pg iodide in addition to their normal daily intake of 250 pg. Some of those receiving the additional iodine showed significantly elevated TSH levels compared to the placebo controls (Chow et al., 1991). Excessive intakes can cause an increase in thyrotoxicosis and Hashimoto’s disease (with autoantibodies against thyroid proteins), but can also reduce the incidence of toxic nodular goitre and diffuse non-toxic goitre. It can also induce hypothyroidism in autoimmune glands. These changes are not seen in Japanese people despite an average intake of 50-80 mg I/day. In these circumstances urinary iodide excretion would increase to 20 mg/day or more." [ec.europa.eu]

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Hyperthyroidism is rare, and certainly aggravated
> by iodine intake. But who knows what the
> precursor disorder is? The more I read about it,
> the more I think things like Hashimoto's
> Thyroiditis, for example, probably presents first
> as subclinical hypothyroidism from iodine
> deficiency, with the Hashimto's being a hysterical
> final step if untreated.

Those are some interesting points. Do you have some links or references? I have low-normal thyroid but I know several with hyperthyroid. And is there a study that links Hashimoto's to iodine deficiency hypothyroidism? Hashimoto's is a topic that comes up in the raw community often so it will be nice to put a reference in my 'favorites' pages.

Up, up, ttt.

RocketShip,

This was something that I was told by an endocrinologist(in the late 1990s) and again by a hematologist/oncologist(more recently); occasionally I have read a study online or something in a medical book that corroborates this(can't recall where, now--I recommend you do a search). It made sense to me that hysteria in the gland would follow exhaustion, as, well, following exhaustion the thyroid is still present and doing something as an integral part of the endocrine system. Further, it made sense that the gland's dysfuntion could cause an erratic immune response to it. This isn't unheard of: Type I diabetes can arise from an infection for example.

An MD specializing in alternative endocrine treatments that I consulted in the early aughts mused that she was seeing an epidemic of underactive thyroid disorders, and increasing clinical diagnoses of Hashimoto's(although this is apparently hard to dignose accurately), so there had to be a correlation. I don't know if this hypothesis is reflected at the standard medical websites(Web MD, NIH, Mayo Clinic), but I have found them incomplete on other matters, so I don't rely on them. I'd start asking clinicians you know if they've ever heard that hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism are sympathetic disorders. Good luck, RocketShip!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2010 03:14PM by Tamukha.

I agree that Hashimotos is more commonly a 'diagnosis' but I was wondering about the theory of iodine deficiency hypothyroidism leading to it. I try to keep in mind that most people eating SAD are getting tons of iodine in the diet through iodized salt. Too much. Most probable would be iodine toxicity.

Here's Herbert Shelton's view on hyperthyroidism:


Etiology: Hyperthyroidism (goitre) results from toxemia, the essential and ever-present first cause of over activity of the thyroid. To us, all goitres are toxic goitres. Supersaturation of the body with toxins from checked elimination, excessive eating of proteins, starches, pies, puddings, etc., and neglect of raw vegetables and fruits, and from various poison habits and the pyramiding of the effects of bad habits, is the cause of goitre.
The secretion of thyroxin seems to depend on an adequate supply of iodine and this has led to the belief that goitre is due to iodine deficiency. As goitre is usually associated with excessive secretion of thyroxin, and as lack of iodine should result in a deficiency of thyroxin, this theory of the cause of goitre would seem to be unsound. Certainly the practice built on this theory of cause has failed; failed both as a preventive and as a cure.
It has been shown experimentally that the thyroid gland may be stimulated into activity by sympathetic impulses and Cannon and others say that a continuation of such impulses over a considerable period of time produces a condition in animals like exophthalmic goitre in man. Clinical observations indicate that in men and women this condition may result from prolonged nervous strain or even that it may follow a single violent emotional disturbance.
Domestic and social discord, worry, irritation, etc., may easily produce enough sympathetic stimulation of the thyroid to result in exophthalmic goitre. Overwork, the various poison habits — coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, etc., habits — too frequent childbearing, or other drains upon the organism, and the various indulgencies common to modern living are factors in the production of goitre. We consider it very significant that among animals in captivity only carnivores suffer from goitre. Vegetarian and fruitarian animals are not so affected.
The thyroid gland is very closely linked with the sex glands. Apparently there is a more fundamental relationship between the female sex organism and the thyroid than between it and the male sex organism. At least disturbances of the sex functions in females have a more profoundly disturbing effect upon the thyroid than do disturbances of the male sex functions.
The sex factor in the development of goitre has not received sufficient consideration. Dr. Weger says that in practically all female goitre patients who have reached maturity and also frequently in girls who have just past puberty there is an intimate association and pathological involvement of the ovaries or uterus or both. "In the majority of cases there exists a small uterine fibroid. * * * In many cases the uterine tissues are themselves in a state of fibrous induration and enlargement. Almost invariably there is found a complicating chronic endometritis or endocervicitis with retained secretions."
Tilden says, "thyroid enlargement is secondary to uterine and ovarian perversion in the female, and gonadal perversion in the male, and the perversion of these reproductive functions is super-induced by over-indulged appetite and passion for the most part by suppressed lasciviousness and salaciousness." Again: "I have never seen a case of goitre in women who have not been troubled with toxemia and who have not been suffering with gastro-intestinal catarrh and a catarrhal state of the womb. I have found drainage from the womb invariably imperfect."
"The thyroid and mammary glands are auxiliary to the reproductive system and anything that perverts the functions of the reproductive organs causes abnormalities of the thyroid and breasts." "Lumps in the breasts," so generally scare-headed into cancer, are invariably associated with the same kind of pelvic derangements as is goitre.
In goitre, the breasts of the female are often enlarged and the glands hard and sensitive. The womb is often enlarged and sensitive with catarrh and even ulceration of the neck or the body of the womb. The imperfectly drained (retained) secretions of the womb undergo decomposition and are highly toxic.
Sexual repression is especially common in females and many of these repressed women are as lascivious as any libertine. If married, they enter the sexual relation without responding, consciously or subconsciously (usually the latter) repressing themselves, and thus helping to pervert the functions of the thyroid.


Care of the Patient: Complete and ultimately successful recovery can occur only, as Dr. Weger says, if "the patient is put to bed in an environment that will insure absolute physical and mental rest — away from friends and even relatives. The reasons for this are only obvious to those who have had experience in getting nervous patients under control. Outside influence and interference are sometimes insurmountable obstacles and always decided handicaps."
We emphasized above the office of nervous irritation, domestic difficulties, etc., in overstimulating the thyroid. It should be obvious to anyone how necessary it is to get away from the sources of these disturbing factors. Proper rest of the nervous system is not possible so long as they exist. Physical and mental rest are vitally important in goitre cases.
Toxin elimination is best secured by fasting — physiological rest. This will also hasten the absorption of the enlargement. Indeed it often results in a rapid reduction and disappearance of the thyroid enlargement and hardening in the breasts and womb or ovaries. Dr. Weger adds: "Physiological rest can best be obtained by a complete fast. All foods must be withheld and nothing but water given until the pulse is normal and all active symptoms have subsided."

Thank goodness the recommendations turned out to be fasting, rest, and stress reduction. For a minute with all the talk of sexual repression, I thought an old 19th century solution for female hysteria was going to be recommended!

Was there a corresponding 19th c remedy for male hysteria?

loeve,

There was no such thing as male hysteria--it was called "bravado."

Fair enough Tamukha, I understand "male hysteria" might not have been a diagnostic term, though men were diagnosed with "hysteria" in the 19th c --

"In the period following the Civil War, new categories of diagnostic thought about the concept of hysteria, "life-events" trauma, and the effects of life patterns on the development of psychological and physical symptoms had emerged. They helped to define the approaches and analytic tools applied to combat-related illnesses in World War I, World War II, and beyond. Actual knowledge of factors, dynamics, and underlying processes changed dramatically, but the meta-categories–the overall associational structures derived from observation–have remained comparatively stable.

"Neurasthenia (Neurocirculatory Asthenia)

"In 1869, George A. Beard, an American neurologist, developed the diagnostic category of neurasthenia (literally, nerve weakness). Neurasthenia’s symptoms included "loss of appetite, weakness of the back and spine, sleeplessness, sick headaches, fugitive neuralgic pains," which were added to over time to include such symptoms as noises in the ear, atonic voice, deficient mental control, bad dreams, nervous dyspepsia, heaviness of the loin and limb, flushing and fidgetiness, palpitations, spinal irritation, uterine irritability, impotence, hopelessness and fears such as claustrophobia, agoraphobia and fear of contamination (Webster, 1995, p. 186).

"It is clear that neurasthenia is a syndrome that has many of the same characteristics that are today associated with chronic fatigue syndrome and multiple chemical sensitivity. Neurasthenia’s symptoms also include many of those presented by some veterans suffering from Gulf War illnesses.

"Beard defined the causative agents of neurasthenia as the pace and strains of American life. He saw it affecting males more than females and interestingly defined it as essentially class and culture bound. It is described as afflicting primarily the affluent because it represented the response of more finely grained and organized nervous systems to the pressures and strains of life. Ultimately Beard decided that these problems of the very sensitive and well-bred required "electrical" treatment, the panacea of the day, and he treated neurasthenia with electric belts and similar instruments. This was in keeping with a medical belief of the time that electricity was vital to the body’s well-being and the proper functioning of the nervous system, and therefore applications of electricity would correct errors and faults in body functions.
...
"CHANGES IN THE CONCEPT OF HYSTERIA and TRAUMATIC NEUROSIS

"The concept of hysteria was transformed into traumatic neurosis, making it gender neutral and leading to the present construct that we call posttraumatic stress disorder or posttraumatic stress syndrome. Much of the critical thinking and work regarding hysteria was performed by Briquet at the Hospital de la Charite in Paris, who published his findings in Traite de l’Hysterie (1859). As Ellenberger (1970, p. 142) points out:

"He defines hysteria as "a neurosis of the brain, the manifestations of it consisting chiefly in a perturbation of those vital acts which are concerned with the expression of emotions and passions." He found one male hysteric for every twenty females and believed that hereditary predisposition played a vital role it its development."

[www.gulflink.osd.mil]

I imagine the treatment was rest, proper diet, stress reduction - same as RocketShip concluded.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 05:48PM by loeve.

The various therapies for female hysteria are hysterical.

So the origin of the theory and name for the 19th c diagnosis hysteria can be traced as far back as ancient Greece where the word for uterus was hystera, and the diagnosis of hysteria is less frequent today, and the word hysteria possibly having become "loaded". It's easy to see why.

loeve,

I think it was that Galen who came up with the idea of the uterus being the seat of hysterics. According to him, the female of the species was a defective male, and the uterus and other primary sexual organs were deformed inversions of the male organs, so it was inevitable for woman, in her imperfect deviant state, to suffer from deviant mental characteristics.

I had to do a paper on Galen for a history class in college. He was a peach, needless to say

The Roman physician, Galen does sound like a peach, at least compared to his Greek predecessor Plato. Hippocrates' ideas sound more modern --

"Hysteria has a long and complicated record. A narrative which is unlikely to have a basis in a pathological entity unchanging throughout its history. The earliest record is probably an Egyptian medical papyrus dating from around 1990 BC recording peculiar abnormalities produced by movement of the uterus, moving upwards from the pelvis, applying pressure on the diaphragm and giving rise to bizarre physical and mental symptoms. Plato (c. 429-347 BC) continued the descriptive language to evoke what men found particularly irritating or incomprehensible about women 'The animal within them is desirous of procreating children, and when remaining unfruitful gets discontented and angry, and wandering in every direction through the body drives them to extremity, causing all varieties of disease'. Hippocrates (c. 460-377 BC) described how the female reproductive parts, moving, convulsing or prolapsing caused dizziness, motor paralysis and sensory disturbance. Galen (AD 129-216?) regarded the cause as being due to the retention of excessive menstrual blood." [www.nature.com]

Hopefully this relates back to the thyroid and iodine and ultimately greens vs. seaweed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2010 10:46PM by loeve.

"Herbal concoctions" are among the suggestions in Hippocratic texts. This source goes on at length about the roots of the diagnosis histeria, pretty much discounting the very ancient Egyptian source and noting the lack of original writings of Hippocrates, but finding corrollaries with Hippocratic writers --

"Hippocratic Hysteria: the Womb and Its Destinations

"For the Hippocratic writers, however, the texts that have been used in the construction of hysteria described something resulting from a firmly organic cause, the movement of the womb. It is to the role of the womb that we must now turn. The Hippocratic texts suggest that movement of the womb is caused by menstrual suppression, exhaustion, insufficient food, sexual abstinence, and dryness or lightness of the womb, and that it can be cured by marriage and/or pregnancy, scent therapy, irritant pessaries, and various herbal concoctions administered by mouth, by nose, or direct to the vulva."
[publishing.cdlib.org] (page 14)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 12:47AM by loeve.

I skimmed to the end of the article --

"Nineteenth-century hysteria, a parasite in search of a history, grafts itself by name and lineage onto the centuries-old tradition of suffocation of the womb, thus making Hippocrates its adopted father. It is time that father disowned his hybrid child." [publishing.cdlib.org] (page 64)