On another thread, Prana mentions garlic/onions and their supposed toxicity. I have always heard this from those in the yoga community; they eschew them, along with spicy spices as being too 'rajasic' or stimulating. I have noticed that raw garlic does a number on my stomach sometimes--it burns. But even on the soul level, is it really catastrophic to consume these items in moderation? They really seem to be good for us so I am reluctant to remove them from my diet, especially since there are so many other chemicals in plants which are supposedly toxic like alkaloids in eggplant, tomatoes, etc. Or oxalic acid.

A favourite topic of mine, banana. The yoga people are just mindlessly copying the beliefs of certain eastern peoples who had the idea that these foods were bad for you, at least on some socalled spiritual level. This is typical of people getting away from their own culture and adopting another one. They don't know what they are talking about, in my judgment. I read that onions & garlic "cause anger". Well, my dad was the most easygoing, softspoken person you could want to meet, and he loved onions and garlic. I can't believe how much he ate. He ate these foods 3 times a day and then some. Mostly raw. He rarely showed any anger and when he did, it didn't last long.

I think that the societies where this belief originated were different from (most of us) racially and therefore biologically. It is entirely possible that they were and are constitutionally unable to handle these substances and therefore avoiding them became part of the religions they practiced over there. Seems okay to me, but let's be ourselves.

Horsea: I suspected something like that. But Prana mentions actual brain scans and how it negatively impacts the brain--kind of bugs me! Here is an inconsistency regarding yogis and these things. I was at an open house for yoga and when we ate lunch, it was pretty spicy even though during the lecture they were very specific about avoiding hot peppers. I asked the cook and he said-"well, we just put a little of it." So even they don't really follow their prohibitions 100%. And another bothersome issue: asofeotida (hing) is a substitute used by yogis for garlic/onions. But how can it be any different or better than them? Have you ever smelled hing? It honestly smells like body odor!

If you want to eat garlic and onions, eat them. I do not want to eat them. This does not mean I or you or Joe-Schmoe has a "problem."

I seldom eat onion and garlic, and tolerate them all right when I do, but to argue, as one of Prana's sources does at that other thread, that garlic actually slows down brain funtion is preposterous to me--tell it to the ancient cultures that created algebra and Democracy on a diet containing garlic, LOL! It is interesting that no legitimate scientific research conclusively shows that alliums are harmful to humans(yogis tend to eschew them for the same reason as animal tissue--they're believed to excite the appetites). Btw, I don't think it necessarily follows that because alliums are toxic to garden pests, they are also toxic to humans; I'm not a weevil, but that assertion is a false syllogism. Eat garlic and onion if you feel OK eating them, don't feel that you must because someone else does, and go in peace

Tamukha: Okay, will do! Thanks.

Interesting idea Horsea, that yoga folk are mindlessly copying eastern peoples. Of course, there is no factual basis for what you say, but then, who cares?

Actually, one can have a personal experience of how toxic garlic is. But to do so requires that one gets their body to a state of health where it recognizes things that are bad for it. As an example, if you take cigarettes, when a child is first exposed to a cigarette, the child body reacts and rejects the cigarette. But if the child is insistant, the body adapts and then actually begins to enjoy the cigarette. To get to a state of health where the body again rejects the cigarette, the body might need to be cigarette free for a long period of time, so that the health of that body can improve to once again reject cigarettes.

Same is true for garlic. If you abstain from garlic long enough, and in the meantime heal the issues or symptoms in the body that perhaps the garlic was meant to heal, the body can get to a state where it doesn't like garlic.

Why do people consume garlic medicinally? Because garlic makes symptoms disappear. If you have some kind of detox, say a cold, or bacterial overgrowth, or whatever, and you take garlic, your body quits detoxing. Why? Because the garlic is way more poisonous than whatever your body was detoxing with the original symptoms.

I am not telling anyone to not eat garlic. But I am saying that it is not a health food, but it is a symptom supressor. If you are OK with this, then enjoy. And while some garlic will not kill you, it will kill cells it comes in contact with in your body. This is why your body works extra hard to release it though your skin. Letting your digestive system handle the garlic is not quick enough for your body's needs.

Tamukha, why was Bob Beck's research with garlic not legitimate. He paid scientists to test garlic, and he published his results. Isn't this what all people who commission some scientific research do?

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you abstain from
> garlic long enough, and in the meantime heal the
> issues or symptoms in the body that perhaps the
> garlic was meant to heal, the body can get to a
> state where it doesn't like garlic.


I imagine the above, if correct, could be applied to other commonly-enjoyed foods or herbs also. We just haven't figured out what foods are truly foods and which one are (supposedly) symptom-suppressors because of their own inherent toxicity.

Do you recall the old expression "One man's food is another man's poison"? Maybe garlic is "poison" to a person not because he is free of toxins but because of something much more fundamental, i.e., he was born with his own unique biochemistry that causes him to dislike garlic (and a dozen other things too).

I don't know. I can live without garlic, but I rather like onions.

I think I would die without onions or garlic. I used to work at a cultural arts camp as a cool and there was a big hand painted sign hanging over one of the doorways to the dining hall that said "Garlic is the ketchup of intellects".

Garlic? No.

[debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com]

I enjoy onions, garlic, chilli's, leeks and spices. I feel fine eating them and have yet to read anything convincing that makes me believe they are bad for us.

And as for chives - they are fantastic - yummy.

Prana the body never stops detoxing and especially not because it has consumed a certain alkaloid or chemical.

There are many "medicinal" alkaloids contained in fruits and vegetables, does that cause the body to stop detoxing also?

Garlic and onions are not to everyones taste, but i havent seen any credible information which suggests garlic is neurotoxic. Ive also never seen any information ever that garlic kills cells it comes in contact with.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 08:05AM by powerlifer.

Prana,

Beck's findings have not been evaluated clinically by others, and they have not been published in legitimate research tracts. Also, talk like this is not scientific:

Quote

"I have been telling people this for years, all you need is a ECG of the brain to see the truth .. it totally desynchronizes the brain and cause us to loose our psychic mind ... yes our psychic mind, we are Human not slaves to the race of beings that control us ... this doesn't mean much to most ...
Garlic is not only repulsive to any one that eats it for hours ... but it makes us stupid slow and simple ... this is hard for most people to grasp, do the ECG and do the experiment yourselves ... read this article on this and you will be amazed it does clean the blood but it also destroys the total mind synchronization of the two hemispheres .. I was heart broken, when I heard of this because I love the smell of garlic and onions ... but oh well ... once you find out they are a neuro poison then it makes al the sense in the world when you eat it ... what happens to you ! ... you smell awful and are totally repulsed by others . most are generally being nice not to tell you ... YOU STINK .. stay your distance !
it is also the best organic insect killer, too, is there a reason why no bug will eat garlic or any of the onion family...because it kills them.
The reason garlic is so toxic, the sulphone hydroxyl ion penetrates the blood brain barrier, just like DMSO, and is a specific poison for higher life forms and brain cells. We discovered this much to our horror, when I was the world's largest manufacturer of ethical ECG biofeedback equipment. We'd have people come back from lunch that looked clinically dead on the encephalograph, which we used to calibrate their progress. "Well, what happened?" " Well, I went to an Italian restaurant and there was some garlic in my salad dressing!"

I am very interested in alternative diagnostic equipment, and hope someday diagnostic disciplines like BioPhysics become mainstream, but whatever "ethical" ECG biofeedback equipment is, it is not accepted science that can be commonly evaluated the way an MRI can be. Now, If Robert Beck, DSc, can replicate his results using standard EEGs, ECGs, CTs or the like, I will reconsider what he says about garlic. From what he said at the lecture in Seattle that you quote, it's just philosophizing. Interesting, but not objective.

Well, I will say, as have said before, that passions are certainly aroused when one suggests that garlic might not be such a wonderfood...

I would say more, but more interesting to me right now is that my cat has just stuck his head into my pint mug and is lapping up banana smoothie. Sorry to be OT, but fancy that eh?!

About your article debbie, A lot of substances will kill the flora if in direct contact. This only becomes as issue though if taking the garlic at the same time as you take probiotics. If you are just eating raw garlic then many of the compounds from the garlic will be diluted and absorbed long before it reaches most of the flora.

Garlic is considered in the top 10 prebiotic foods due to its FOS content. Also everything can have side effects including water.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 02:30PM by powerlifer.

if garlic "kills cells"

isn't that why people who go to other countries and end up getting parasites from the food/water ingest garlic and purportedly get well as a result?

in other words, if garlic kills "good" cells, then they must also kill "bad" cells

this seems more logical to me as to why people can decrease the time they are sick by consuming garlic because it kills the bugs that are causing the cold etc.

Powerlifer, I've said all I want about garlic in the article. I haven't the inclination to defend garlic against those who think it's a wonderful thing. Yes, 99% of the world does think garlic is a wonderful thing.

Then your given no bases or defending your article sorry. But what you stated in my mind isnt correct from what ive read. If garlic is so bad to intestinal bacteria why does it rank in the top 10 of prebiotic foods?

If you wrote the article id assume you could defend the points you've stated, im not trying to get at you but most of the misinformation is based on one persons beliefs rather than any science involved.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 06:38PM by powerlifer.

Why can't you just accept that some of us don't want to eat garlic? What the hell is your problem? This community used to be encouraging, supportive, and now we have people calling the non-garlic-eaters as having a medical condition.

No need to get "uppty" i dont care if someone doesnt want to eat garlic, onions and such but if you are classing healthy foods as unhealthy then there must be something wrong as coco says.

If you dont like these foods its fine theres no issue at all of course. But making out healthy foods are wrong is something different.

You realize people can have differing opinions on what is healthy or not, right? even doctors disagree. The problem lies in you (general you) not being able to accept someone whose opnion is different from you; and you reply and reply and reply with your argument back and forth, instead of just saying, "Okay, I have a different opnion."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 07:41PM by Utopian Life.

Then i need some information why you deem these healthy foods unhealthy from what i can see so far it is unjustified?

Ive always been willing to hear anyones opinion no one is the godfather nor is everyone correct with there own views. But all i expect is some factual bases for those that do. Debbie presented that i showed mine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 07:46PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then i need some information why you deem these
> healthy foods unhealthy from what i can see so far
> it is unjustified?


I didn't call garlic "unhealthy" but other people have stated why they don't want to eat it.

That's just the thing Powerlifer - no one has to justify anything to you. We can have our opnions, and they are all valid, without you commenting on someone else's view.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Then i need some information why you deem these
> > healthy foods unhealthy from what i can see so
> far
> > it is unjustified?
>
>
> I didn't call garlic "unhealthy" but other people
> have stated why they don't want to eat it.
>
> That's just the thing Powerlifer - no one has to
> justify anything to you. We can have our opnions,
> and they are all valid, without you commenting on
> someone else's view.


Then like i said 4 posts ago that you are fine to exclude these foods if you dislike there look, taste, smell, whatever. Garlic and onions were only used as they were the common raw fooders hated foods for being "unhealthy". The thread about orhtorexia was about those who dont include foods that are healthy and deem them unhealthy foods even though proven that there healthy.

And if you make articles id sure hope that you can back up the substance of your content in which case i havent seen yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 07:52PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
nor is everyone correct with
> there own views.
---

So if I said, "I don't want to eat garlic because x, y, and z," you think that could be incorrect somehow? Someone's opinion is their opinion, and correctly their opinion (even if based on something that you find different), regardless of waht you think. Why do you have a problem respecting that?

powerlifer Wrote:

you are fine to
> exclude these foods if you dislike there look,
> taste, smell, whatever.



Excuse me, but no one needs your permission or acceptance to do anything. Thanks for telling me "i'm fine," though. I'll throw out the herb I was about to take to cure my orthorexia (snort/laugh).

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> nor is everyone correct with
> > there own views.
> ---
>
> So if I said, "I don't want to eat garlic because
> x, y, and z," you think that could be incorrect
> somehow? Someone's opinion is their opinion, and
> correctly their opinion (even if based on
> something that you find different), regardless of
> waht you think. Why do you have a problem
> respecting that?

Your taking a joke now arent you? seriously? If you said i dont like the taste and smell of disgusting garlic id say no problems your bang on. If you said garlic kills cells it kills people everyday id say no your wrong prove it? I really dont care if you dislike these vegetables its a personal choice utopian which you cant understand. But when people start making out healthy foods are toxic, wrong and bad for you when been proven 100's of times in proper studies not mickey mouse crap then we have to take note of there properties.

If you actually read my last post i said no one is right and no one can tell you what to consume if you dont like these foods, spices or herbs then leave the topic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 07:56PM by powerlifer.

If you approached someone in real life who drank diet soda but you don't think diet soda is healthy, do you honestly try to derate them about their drinking diet soda and pretend that their life decisions are encumbant upon your approval? Or is this just an internet thing?

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you approached someone in real life who drank
> diet soda but you don't think diet soda is
> healthy, do you honestly try to derate them about
> their drinking diet soda and pretend that their
> life decisions are encumbant upon your approval?
> Or is this just an internet thing?


Your getting petty and silly again utopian please debate rather than this, As i stated above, id show them something factual and scientific rather than spouting stuff which has no bases other than anecdotal theorys.

powerlifer Wrote:

If
> you said i dont like the taste and smell of
> disgusting garlic id say no problems your bang on.



If someone makes a thread that says, "Do you eat garlic?" I would assume people will answer if they eat garlic or not. This is VERY different from making a thread that says, "Do you eat garlic? And if you don't, everyone is entitled to comment upon your choice and suggest you post articles in support of your preference."

I don't know why you think you're the garlic and onion orthorexia diagnoser or what qualifications you think you have, but enough is enough.