Prana, I think you're assuming a lot when you predict what will happen to other people under this or that circumstance when they eat garlic or onions.

I'm very food sensitive, and did exactly what you say - quit eating garlic and onions for a few months - more than 3 months actually (more like 5) - and then started eating them again. I didn't feel any difference at all. As you know, I've been raw vegan for a very long time - 24 years in few days, and yet I didn't have the reaction that you predicted.

You could now perhaps assume that my raw vegan diet isn't as nontoxic as your raw vegan diet, and therefore I didn't fully "detox" from garlic/onions after five months; but again, that would be another assumption.

Prana, are you concerned that people will actually hurt themselves from eating garlic? There appears to be more solid evidence to the contrary.

Raw vegan foods are our friends.

Many people have specific food sensitivities. We can each avoid those foods as we each learn what they are. I agree with you Prana when you say that as we continue along with raw, we will know which foods those are. Those foods will very likely be different foods for different people.

If people are sensitive to a lot of different raw vegan foods, more regular exercise might be helpful.

Again, raw vegan foods are our friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 07:16PM by suncloud.

suncloud,

Congratulations on being raw vegan for 24 years. I've been 100% raw vegan for nearly nine years now, and more along the high fruit low fat for over eight years.

If people want to eat garlic because they like the taste and it helps them stay raw vegan, then I think thats a great reason to continue eating it.

But some people eat it because they think its a "health food", that it can "cure" or prevent various ailments. The fact that an ailment is "cured" when taking garlic is most likely a case of either symptom suppression, or the body healed the ailment in spite of the garlic.

What I've seen in my raw journey is that most people to attempt raw vegan end up leaving the raw vegan diet because they don't achieve excellent health with the diet. Many go back to cooked foods, or start using animal products because their health fails on the raw vegan diet. If I see someone who is constantly using garlic to "heal" their symptoms that arise, shouldn't I offer another point of view that might shed some light as to why that person isn't healing on the raw vegan diet.

Granted that the biggest cause of failure is the high fat raw vegan diet, somewhere in the mix of the causes of failures is the dependence on herbal remedies/supplementation/superfoods to heal various ailments.

I was pretty sick when I started raw. And I used all those herbal remedies/supplements/superfoods to deal with my malaise. But in the end run, the only thing that really worked for me was to let go of all those "cures", and look at the foods and habit patterns that I had that did not support being healthy.

Raw vegan foods that have a low toxicity, are our friends indeed.

Prana, thank you for your thoughtful response.

I totally agree with you that a person with a chronic ailment most likely won't cure themselves by eating garlic. Depending on so-called "superfoods" and unnecessary food supplements will not bring health to a sick person.

I also appreciate your saying this: "If people want to eat garlic because they like the taste and it helps them stay raw vegan, then I think thats a great reason to continue eating it."

One thing I personally really like about being raw vegan is that I don't worry so much about food. I like the freedom of being all raw. When I ate cooked food, I obsessed about food all the time. It was a self-inflicted prison.

Your post above was kind of an eye-opener, because it made me realize that each of us may have different reasons for being raw; and those reasons may somewhat color our opinions and responses, myself included.

There are some raw vegan foods that I never eat - raw nut butters for example, and so-called raw bars; although of course, if others like to eat them, that's fine. I don't personally miss them. With some other raw foods, I try to be moderate.

I think one thing most humans (including me) can always use an extra dose of is: tolerance.

Thanks for the congrats!

Take care. (kiss on the cheek)

they are healthy.

but for me.. they are a no no no

they interfere with my ecstasy and meditation.

they disturb my mind. and color the vision's bland.

thus says oneof the major physicians/swamis of india in the 50's.

and a fart in meditation after eating either is an incrediable ish experience.

and i will for sure have a fart the next day.


but for those not pure.. eat them till u are clear.

and do it in abundance.

Rudra Wrote:
>
> but for those not pure.. eat them till u are
> clear.
>
> and do it in abundance.




Oh for... I give up. The freaking righteous judgement in here is just too thick. Try to get over yourselves, maybe then YOU will reach this state of purity and clearness that you so value but are so sorely missing out on yourselves. Sheesh.

I agree with coco. Maybe if a person were cleaner, they wouldn't fart when they eat a little bit of garlic - an ancient vegan food. Or maybe our bodies weren't intended to be perfect, and that's why bodies are always only temporary (I don't mind keeping my spirit/soul though, thank you very much)

Or, I know! Maybe people who can't handle garlic are vampires!

(Maybe this and maybe that.)

Definitely eating a clove of garlic won't keep a person out of nirvana, and not eating a clove of garlic won't get a person in.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 07:15PM by suncloud.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rudra Wrote:
> >
> > but for those not pure.. eat them till u are
> > clear.
> >
> > and do it in abundance.
>
>
>
>
> Oh for... I give up. The freaking righteous
> judgement in here is just too thick. Try to get
> over yourselves, maybe then YOU will reach this
> state of purity and clearness that you so value
> but are so sorely missing out on yourselves.
> Sheesh.



Who are you referring to as "yourselves""? The one poster above. It appears to be plural.

<Definitely eating a clove of garlic won't keep a person out of nirvana, and not eating a clove of garlic won't get a person in>

I love it! Well said! I think it's easy to get hung up on "rules," not using logic.

I use to love onions. I just had a salad with some red onion in it after some abstinence. Not very much mind you.

All I can taste now is onion and I became sluggish and tired. I just went jogging for 3 miles to get back to my nirvana. Exercise tends to be the cure all for me when I get this way.

When I eat any onion anymore I get this way, whether it is organic or not.

I'm glad some people get health benefits from them. I am not one of those people.

david

dvdai, good response. Might be one of those things that some people are OK with, and some people aren't.

Or maybe even Rudra is right. But saying that others are "impure" is not particularly helpful, and it's not necessary.

I'm pretty sure we can speak our minds, relate our experiences, and say what we think without having to convey that we are superior or more advanced or that we've progressed further than others.

Garlic - Toxic for the Brain?

Complete list of Healing Cancer Naturally articles on the nutritional healing of cancer

Garlic - a Brain Poison?

from GARLIC - TOXIC SHOCK! Reprinted from Nexus Magazine, Feb/Mar 2001. Source: From a lecture by physicist Dr. Robert C Beck, DSc, given at the Whole Life Expo, Seattle, WA, USA, in March 1996.

Asterisked entries (*) refer to a definition provided in the appended glossary.

The reason garlic* is so toxic, the sulphone* hydroxyl* ion penetrates the blood-brain barrier, just like DMSO [a sulfoxide*], and is a specific poison for higher-life forms and brain cells. We discovered this, much to our horror, when I (Bob Beck, DSc) was the world's largest manufacturer of ethical EEG [electroencephalography*] feedback equipment.

We'd have people come back from lunch that looked clinically dead on an encephalograph, which we used to calibrate their progress. "Well, what happened?" "Well, I went to an Italian restaurant and there was some garlic in my salad dressing!" So we had them sign things that they wouldn't touch garlic before classes or we were wasting their time, their money and my time.

I guess some of you ... are pilots or have been in flight tests... I was in flight test engineering in Doc Hallan's group in the 1950s. The flight surgeon would come around every month and remind all of us: "Don't you dare touch any garlic 72 hours before you fly one of our airplanes, because it'll double or triple your reaction time. You're three times slower than you would be if you'd not had a few drops of garlic."

Well, we didn't know why for 20 years later, until I owned the Alpha-Metrics Corporation. We were building biofeedback equipment and found out that garlic usually desynchronises your brain waves.

So I funded a study at Stanford and, sure enough, they found that it's a poison. You can rub a clove of garlic on your foot - you can smell it shortly later on your wrists. So it penetrates the body. This is why DMSO smells a lot like garlic: that sulphone hydroxyl ion penetrates all the barriers including the corpus callosum* in the brain.

Any of you who are organic gardeners know that if you don't want to use DDT, garlic will kill anything in the way of insects.

Now, most people have heard most of their lives garlic is good for you, and we put those people in the same class of ignorance as the mothers who at the turn of the century would buy morphine sulphate in the drugstore and give it to their babies to put 'em to sleep.

If you have any patients who have low-grade headaches or attention deficit disorder [ADD], they can't quite focus on the computer in the afternoon, just do an experiment - you owe it to yourselves. Take these people off garlic and see how much better they get, very very shortly.

And then let them eat a little garlic after about three weeks. They'll say "My God, I had no idea that this was the cause of our problems." And this includes the de-skunked garlics, Kyolic, some of the other products.

Very unpopular, but I've got to tell you the truth.

Also by Robert Beck: Physicist Robert C. Beck on Healing Cancer & Aids Via Blood Electrification.


Reference & Glossary

compiled by Healing Cancer Naturally based on material © 1994-2000 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. and New Oxford Dictionary of English

Corpus callosum

A broad band of nerve fibers joining the two hemispheres of the brain.

Electroencephalography

Technique for recording and interpreting the electrical activity of the brain. The nerve cells of the brain generate electrical impulses that fluctuate rhythmically in distinct patterns. In 1929 Hans Berger of Germany developed an electroencephalograph, an instrument that measures and records these brain wave patterns. The recording produced by such an instrument is called an electroencephalogram, commonly abbreviated EEG.
To make an EEG, electrodes are placed in pairs on the scalp. Each pair of electrodes transmits a signal to one of several recording channels of the electroencephalograph. This signal consists of the difference in the voltage between the pair. The rhythmic fluctuation of this potential difference is shown as peaks and troughs on a line graph by the recording channel. The EEG of a normal adult in a fully conscious but relaxed state is made up of regularly recurring oscillating waves known as alpha waves. When a person is excited or startled, the alpha waves are replaced by low-voltage, rapid, irregular waves. During sleep, the brain waves become extremely slow. Such is also the case when a person is in a deep coma. Other abnormal conditions are associated with particular EEG patterns. Irregular slow waves known as delta waves, for example, arise from the vicinity of a localized area of brain damage.
Electroencephalography provides a means of studying how the brain works and of tracing connections between one part of the central nervous system and another. Its effectiveness as a research tool, however, is limited because it records only a small sample of electrical activity from the surface of the brain. Many of the more complex functions of the brain, such as those that underlie emotions and thought, cannot be related closely to EEG patterns. Electroencephalography has proved more useful as a diagnostic aid in cases of serious head injuries, brain tumours, cerebral infections, epilepsy, and various degenerative diseases of the nervous system.

Garlic

(Species Allium sativum) contains about 0.1 percent essential oil, the principal components of which are diallyl disulfide, diallyl trisulfide, and allyl propyl disulfide.

Hydroxyl

Of or denoting the radical -OH, present in alcohols and many other organic compounds: a hydroxyl group.

Sulfoxide

Also called SULPHOXIDE, any of a class of organic compounds containing sulfur and oxygen and having the general formula (RR') SO, in which R and R' are a grouping of carbon and hydrogen atoms. The sulfoxides are good solvents for salts and polar compounds.
The best-known sulfoxide is dimethyl (or methyl) sulfoxide (DMSO), which is prepared by aerial oxidation of dimethyl sulfide (a by-product of paper manufacture) in the presence of nitrogen dioxide. DMSO is used as a solvent in a wide variety of industrial processes, including the manufacture of polyacrylonitrile fibres, the extraction of aromatic hydrocarbons from refinery streams, the manufacture of certain pesticides, for industrial cleaning, and for paint stripping. It is also used as a solvent for drugs and antitoxins applied topically. The last use is based on its remarkable ability to penetrate animal tissues.
Dimethyl sulfoxide is a colourless and odourless liquid, boiling at 189 C (372 F). It is miscible in all proportions with water, alcohol, and most organic solvents.

Sulphone (US sulfone)

An organic compound containing a sulphonyl group linking two organic groups


Compare On Garlic’s Health Benefits Against Cancer & Other Diseases and Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt on Garlic and wild garlic as detoxification agents.

Is there any other source besides Bob Beck? And does anyone have a copy of the actual Stanford study?

Can anyone actually find the study that Robert Beck refers to? Are there any references to the study from a source other than Robert Beck?

And is there any follow-up study anwhere that produced the same results as those claimed by Robert Beck?

The only Stanford study I could locate was one that found that garlic doesn't reduce cholesterol (although other studies have concluded that it does).

According to one article, a study in China found "that the sulfur compound sallylcystein prevents degeneration of the brain’s frontal lobes."

[www.thefoodpaper.com]

Another article says this:

"Garlic and the Brain
"Somewhat unexpectedly, there are garlic health benefits on the brain, too.

"Studies on animals have found that brain function improves after garlic consumption. A possibility for this effect is that antioxidants present in garlic helps to get rid of accumulated free radicals in the body. If this is indeed the case, then garlic may be useful in treating Alzheimer’s patients whose disease is caused by free radical accumulation.

"Research in China has shown that sallylcystein, a sulfur compound present in garlic, prevents degeneration of the frontal lobes of the brain. Hence, one possible garlic health benefit is that eating garlic may actually make one more intelligent."

[www.all4naturalhealth.com]

I don't think that the same Robert Beck article cited over and over again, referring to a so far unavailable study, is enough evidence of anything, though I personally respect and appreciate people's viewpoints and experiences.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2010 09:04AM by suncloud.

suncloud,

Robert Beck has not published his research, I suppose because he didn't conduct it scientifically--as I mentioned here elsewhere, I think, what the heck is an "ethical" ECG? That is why the lecture, reprinted once again by pAL, above, is meaningless to me. It would be very interesting to see Beck's actual research, I must add.

I have no dog in this hunt because I don't particularly care for garlic or onions, though my wife loves both. I guess when I want to look for a quick "weight of evidence", I do what many lay people like myself do, search Pub-Med for reviews, that is reviews of multiple studies, mostly statistically valid and either RCT or prospective cohort.

So far, a quick look has been mixed,

on blood pressure, garlic benefits have unsubstantiated: [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

for the common cold, limited data says garlic may prevent it, but no evidence for treating it exists. The overall assessment of this review isn't positive.
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

for total cholestrol, garlic did show some positive impact as well as "TAG", not sure what that is, think it's tryglycerides. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] funny, the review says no effect on HDL or LDL, how is that possible? Isn't most cholesterol one or the other? I may send an email on this one.

on the other hand, this review didn't show much of a benefit. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Even though it's a "garlic and onions" thread, seems mostly about garlic. Maybe we should separate these two. So, I'm going to start a separate onion thread. Though, I will stipulate to Cherie, no debates! Just discussion (I don't like to eat them either, their benefits are a separate issue)

Paul

'I'm pretty sure we can speak our minds, relate our experiences, and say what we think without having to convey that we are superior or more advanced or that we've progressed further than others'

Agree, Suncloud.

On the other hand, can't agree with the posters that keep asking for 'scientific evidence' for this and that. This is a discussion forum. If we had to offer 'scientific evidence' for our opinions on whatever, I think posts would dry up overnight! Do 'qualitative' studies and/or anecdotal information count for nothing on a forum? Does individal experience of a particular food count for nothing?

Also, as we all know, 'science' can be used to justify all sorts of things. I'm sure the raw flesh-eaters have all sorts of science that can 'prove' their point, just as vegans have science to 'prove' theirs.

As far as garlic goes, what I have noticed, over and over again, is that some people who do think garlic is great get very upset if people suggest it's not a good thing to eat.

Some think garlic is a health food. Some think is a harmful food. Vive le difference!

Thanks for the info Tamukha! Yes, it would be interesting to check out the study. Would you or anyone happen to know when it took place? Was it some time in the 70s? I get the impression from trying to track it down over the internet that others are looking for it too.

Thank you Debbietook! I understand your point.

To be clear, I think every bit of information is interesting, including Robert Beck's claims. But regarding those claims specifically, I'm only trying to stress that something isn't necessarily "fact" just because we read it on the internet.

Yes, Vive le difference!

Tamukha, you were asking about "ethical" EEG. Not sure how much you already know, but maybe others might be interested too.

I think Beck is referring to the practice of using an EEG as a "biofeedback" device to enable a person to learn to control some of the normally autonomous/semiautonomous physical functions, such as hearbeat, blood pressure, muscle tension, etc. The "ethical" reference may be intended as a response to questions about the ethics of the practice, since biofeedback therapy was (and maybe still is) such a novel medical treatment.

EEG is conventionally used to diagnose epilepsy and other brain disorders, as noted by pAL above. But I remember back in the late 70s - early 80s, when little hand-held biofeedback machines became available to purchase. This would have been about the time that Beck referred to, when he was "the world's largest manufacturer of ethical EEG [electroencephalography*] feedback equipment."("20 years later", after the 50s).

Of course, the little commercial devices weren't as sophisticated as the ones being used in therapy. We turned the devices on and they emitted a buzzing sound. The faster your heartbeat, the higher the pitch of the sound, so we tried to bring down the pitch by slowing our heartbeat. Sometimes I could do it when I really focused. But let your brain wander for an instant and zoom, up went the pitch! Or so it seemed.

Biofeedback devices are still available. Here's one from Amazon for $147 (I think ours cost around $10 back then).

[www.amazon.com]

There was a lot of experimentation going on, and researchers brought biofeedback equipment to India and experimented on Yogis there. Pretty interesting really. Anyway, biofeedback therapy is still happening. Here's the website of a practice in Austin. The website says they treat heart conditions, anxiety, addictions, and even Alzheimers and Multiple Sclerosis.

[www.austinbiofeedback.com]

Here's some info and a history from Wikipedia:

[en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 07:21AM by suncloud.

suncloud,

Thanks for those links; Beck died in 2002 and is most famed for inventing one of the "zappers" one sees at CureZone. I read that some testing was done independently at a couple college labs on the physics of his device, results being inconclusive. It's a pity he's not still around to academically delve into his ideas further in an institutional setting, and to further promote the acceptance of biofeedback into allopathy. I think tranference is the only way for things like this to become accepted. I wonder, is this thread petering out? . . .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 01:22PM by Tamukha.

Well, I've given up on the onion thread. To me it's like green peppers. Lots of good stuff in there, except for the taste. To each his own.

Paul