I avoided some pie that my friends mother bought the other day. This after I found some objectionable ingredients. I do cheat eating cooked food more than I care to admit, but certain ingredients I avoid like the plague.

She said something irritating. "I'm still here, still alive", the implications are that it must be ok to eat. The other thing she says a lot is that shes 80, and I would have the right to say something about what she eats if I reach that age. Not recognizing that she has problems with blood pressure, cholestrol, diabetes, and takes medications for all of them, and has done so for years.

In addition, I DO take efforts to avoid criticizing her, but do avoid certain thigns, and takes offense, and makes it out like I am attacking her, or trying to say something about her. I think its residual emotional stuff, because her husband was quite vocal about these things. Unfortunately, he died of cancer a few months ago, so she figures that his advice wasn't any good. The only condition he had was cancer, as if that wasn't bad enough.

I suppose it shouldn't bother me, but why are people so quick to think your judging them if you avoid something? What is the proper responce to these sorts of situation. I remainded quiet and just took the criticism, but somehow it doesn't feel right.

It is damn irritating i agree, my father is the same would moan about all the fruit and vegetables i eat but the guy cant even do a bowel movement without using magnesium oxide daily. Which is all down to his lack of fibre. Guys on about 50 medications also.

Its a lose lose situation trying to respond in my opinion.

I think the problem is that she believes if you can buy it, it must be ok. Or that if its common its ok.

Mislu,

I have come to believe that these people are a.) in a state of delusion concerning their health; b.) are vaguely aware of their self-deluding; and c.) expect you to collude with them in their self-deluding out of insecurity. It is, therefore, an unholy waste of time and energy to try to debate with/admonish them. I just let it go, with the hope that they will have a Saul-on-the-road-to-Damascus moment eventually.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2010 05:09PM by Tamukha.

I think mislu you've hit the nail on the head, the general population sees these state of affairs as normal. Its normal to be on blood pressure medication, having diabetes, being obese is getting all more common. Why get to the root of the problem when we can all just take these fancy side effect ridden pills daily.

Its a joke, i remember when i suffered from chronic fatigue syndrome every one around me were criticizing me for not taking anti-depressants after a while went by i caved in due to getting blasted that i was harming myself and that i was "mental" for not taking these great doctors advice. In the end the anti-depressants did nothing, i moved from one to another with higher doses getting nowhere except more ill. In the end i began looking at my lifestyle first i simplified my diet by going vegan, which was a massive result getting rid of dairy, my allergens, meat and so on. Then i got into herbs which was even better, coupled with exercise which ive always loved i was on to a winning combination. My doctor still isnt happy that im better now and didnt follow his crap advice.

Kinda what Tam said; Unfortunately, you can't reach most people, unless they are open to you - and most aren't. Same thing with me. I go through it with my own family.

No sense trying to point out the good virtues of eating the proper way, avoiding processed foods, etc. If I try, even in a gentle way, their face goes stone cold & their eyes glaze over...

It's this giant avoidance and endless pursuit of not offending anyone that makes me so angry! It's no one's fault, I just hate being on the "inside" and knowing the truth about health and watching everyone around me suffer, while they're kind of aware of their suffering yet nothing changes to stop it. I could always say something, but rarely do I get the chance to state my opinions without hurting someone or being hurt or feeling awkward.

I used to be "healthy" except I had KP (bumps on arms), slept over 12 hours a day, was on antidepressants, had exhausted adrenal glands and permanant circles under my eyes, rarely ate vegegables, drank coffee everyday, was heavy on dairy and wheat (although I didnt eat meat and drank a lot of water), could NOT get up in the morning, had very volatile moods, etc... all by the time I was 18. Mostly because of the food I ate and some due to my depressing home life.

At least when these things that hurt to see happen, there's a supportive place online to talk about it.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mislu,
>
> I have come to believe that these people are a.)
> in a state of delusion concerning their health;
> b.) are vaguely aware of their self-deluding; and
> c.) expect you to collude with them in their
> self-deluding out of insecurity. It is,
> therefore, an unholy waste of time and energy to
> try to debate with/admonish them. I just let it
> go, with the hope that they will have a
> Saul-on-the-road-to-Damascus moment eventually.

I think this is another one of Tamukha's excellent responses! I agree. It's often best to just let it float on by, like you did Mislu. Good call.

Disturbing that she feels that way. I think most people have no idea how much better they could feel. But often the best we can do is try to be a best example. Keep them wondering - which she probably is, or she wouldn't have commented. Maybe that's a step in itself.

Yeah cyclopsicle,

Many people that are very sick or very overweight, even to the point of obese will respond with "I'm healthy". And they will continue to make horrible food choices, some knowing the truth - and some not knowing.

My mom...bless her heart; she has diabetes pretty bad, has had for years. will listen to what I have to say, will ask questions at times, and then makes the unhealthy food choices.

My sister heard someplace that baked beans are good for diabetics to consume, so now my mom is eating bush's baked beans with every meal. Is it helping her condition?

Oh yeah, lots...

That's the other thing! All this junk science that keeps people confused. Hydrogenated peanut butter has 10% Vitamin A in two tablespoons and is allowed to say "Good source of Vitamin A" on it. WHAT. Hydrogenated. Creates trans fatty acids (although somehow there weren't any reported on the label?) I hate how this country thrives off the misinformation it feeds the people. I think that's why I want to be a professor/nutritional biochemist or something so I can help promote what I know and research what I want to explore concerning raw foods/healthy vegan diets, etc. I wish one day people would have a real idea of what to never put into their body and that children are taught healthy diets from an early age in school. I wish additives and preservatives were banned and that people ate real foods. Its a shame that so much money is made off of people eating Oreos because they taste great and are a childhood memory although they're poisonious and wasteful in existance. I can't believe I see toddlers drinking soda and things like fried cheesecake. I think an excess of synthetic foods and stimulants cause mental disorders in some people.

You mentioned food additives/preservatives...

please don't forget the colorings they are spraying on or dipping citrus (and maybe other fruits) in to give them a more appealing color so people will buy them...

Who wants to buy a pale lemon? Gotta have that healthy "yellow" appearance to it, even if we have to spray it on!

Dear God...

'
hey cyclopsicle

u mentioned the fried cheesecake thing

wow... what's THAT!

how do they fry a cheesecake without if falling apart
THAT is the question of the century

as far as the thing that mislu said
i agree with tamukhs

couldn't have been stated any better

i have no interest in converting others to the raw vegan lifestyle

and i sure as heck am not going to be knocking door to door handing out little pamphlets condoning the multivarious benefits of vegetable and fruits

i'm only interested in my OWN health

it's their bodies, so they can do what they choose

i don't have to tell them anything

their own bodies will communicate to them LOUD and CLEAR ( some way, some day and some how)

and when they see YOU with ZERO health problems

super vibrant, very mentally clear, radiant, and running ( or leaping perhaps) a zillion miles every day, and joyful... then that also speaks LOUD and CLEAR

no need to say a word

the universe communicates concisely, precisely and profoundly without ever uttering a sound

It's kind of sad how because we all need to work so often/hard to make a living, we've grown to sacrifice taking care of ourselves for convienence. Everyone puts their health on the back burner and accepts it because we have to study for that test or finish that paperwork or take the kids to soccer. It sounds kind of dramatic but it's true. That and we're so stimulated with TV, music, movies, ads, pollutants, and whatnot that it seems only natural to have an equally synthetic and processed diet. Sometimes it's hard to have a natural diet in an urban environment, especially with the head pollution that comes along with it.

My grandmother is 80. Her and my mother have about the same list of problems you listed.

They're alive. But they also at least admit they're not living because they don't "feel well" they're "Tired" etc.

What's so great about living your life in front of the TV and sleeping 15 hours a day? I'd kill myself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 04:50AM by BackAgain.

Backagain,
Wow, other things I didn't notice, or comment on. She also has severe joint problems, and has a hard time moving. She needs assistance for a lot of things, like getting something which has fallen on the floor, or reaching for anything above her shoulder height. (this isn't a matter of being short, but that her arm doesn't go above the shoulder)

She does watch a lot of tv. Suddenly I feel guilty, because it seems like I am being critical. But another member of the family is 93, and she goes up and down the stairs with ease, lives by herself, does her own housecleaning etc...So I know that its still physically possible for someone of that age to not have some of the problems she has, or less of them. The one that is 93 does tai chi several times a week. She says its something to get her out of the house, and to socialize. But I am sure she would notice a few things if she stopped doing it!

I also noticed one major mistake that I made. In declining that piece of pie, I should have NEVER mentioned any objection to anything, just simply declining politely would have been fine. I will remember that, and practice that whenever possible.

Yes, that is exactly it with certain people Mislu. I don't offer extra information when declining things unless it is being offered to the kids, then I do include a brief explanation so it doesn't happen again, particularly when I'm not there to intervene.

I'm not personally comfortable with white lying but it's ok to say "No thanks, I'm not hungry/in the mood/etc". Or that you are on a diet (this is true, it is a special "diet", just not the sort that most people understand). I will often say "Oh, thank you so much for the offer! No thank you though, I have a hard time digesting _____." Which is also not an untruth, we all have trouble digesting processed foods, cooked fats, flour etc.

When it comes to the kids I will say things like "Please, no sugar for them. It makes them crazy." Or "No thank you, I don't feed the kids ____." I don't often explain why though unless people ask and then I only give a very brief answer.

People don't want to be converted, but they often do want to convert YOU to their way of thinking. I agree that it lends validity to their choices if lots of other people are doing the same things and it makes them uncomfortably question themselves when other people are doing something different. Ah well, to each their own journey.

Coco,
yes, that is the difficult part. I am also concerned with potential mixed messages I could be giving. I have lived here for several months, and I have really slipped away from my usual eating habits. Its just 'easier' in this environment. (note, 'easier' not better)

But, slowly I have been starting to feel 'dead', my nose is stuffed up all the time, and last night I felt so sick, also irritable. So, reversing the trends will be difficult for me, because they have seen me eat and apparently 'enjoy' things I really don't want to eat. Oh, yeah the expanding waistline, I don't particularly like that. Also the grime that seems to always be on my teeth no matter how much I brush.

There are a few very strange things. The niece and nephew are powered by candy largely, but also processed grain products. Also meat, cheese, and vitamins. A small portion is fruit. They like white grapes, and that is about it. I haven't seen them eat a salad. The weird part is that they tell me they have NO CAVITIES in their teeth. They both are also very thin, but do have circles under their eyes, and rather rather dull looking skin.

The mother is a professional dietician, who has required them to brush after every meal. I find that strange that they have no cavities. I guess the constant brushing must be doing something. The niece just recently lost a baby tooth. A molar, I was so amazed, it was the smallest human tooth I have ever seen. My baby teeth were like 4 times larger! I figure that she is having trouble extracting what little minerals are in her food. What must her bones look like? I got teased a lot for being 'fat'. But maybe there really is something to the phrase 'big boned'. Many doctors have commented how large framed I am, and dentists especially comment on my dental ridge, how well formed it is, and how deep are my roots.

I am really wondering if anyone really comprehends all the changes in eating habits, and lifestyle. I guess I am lucky that my parents,were at least conscious enough to really limit the amount of sugar I ate, and just by chance I was in a tropical country during some critical stages of developement. I got plenty of vitamin D I am sure, from sunshine.

Mislu,

Shuddering at your description of the kiddies. It sounds like modern day Dickens. Dearie me, so sad now . . .

Tamukha,
Yes, I am concerned, but what can I do? The mother is a professional dietician, and apparently she believes she is doing the best thing for her children. I will say that she started buying whole grain bread on occasion. The father had blood work done, and it wasn't good. (who could guess) Children take after their parents. He eats only processed flour, meat and cheese, for the most part, plus the pale and tasteless regions of iceberg lettuce. But he started eating red apples to up his fruit and vegetable intake. And I suppose is adjusting to whole grain bread, but I am sure is absolutely hating it. I don't know what the children think. Just a few months ago, the children were teasing me about avoiding processed foods...so guess what now?!

What I am wondering is why hasn't this blood work revealed a problem sooner?

Poor diet can take years to reveal poor blood work infact in many cases even drastic sometimes nothing shows up. Heart disease can take anything from 3-5 years to 25 to show results on blood work.

powerlifter,

your pm box is full - could you free up some space, I tried to pm you...

juicerkatz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifter,
>
> your pm box is full - could you free up some
> space, I tried to pm you...


Sorry juicerkatz never realised it was, all clean now

Mislu,

I don't know how you keep from having foot-stamping fits over things like this; it's one thing that adults choose to exist in a fugue of cluelessness about what they are doing to themselves and I stand by my "Saul-On-The-Road-To-Damascus" statement earlier in this thread. But when children are involved, that makes me so mad I could spit. There is really no diplomatic way you can take aside an R.D. and ask her if she thinks her kids look and act like vibrant hale and hearty human beings. Maybe the only way to get someone like that to a S.O.T.R.T.D. moment quickly is to somehow lure her into a setting where children with really great diets and health are frolicking, so that the lightbulb would go off in mom's head, "Hmmm, my kids have nowhere near that much energy and nowhere near that healthy a complexion . . ." Alas, this would require contriving a field trip out of the country, LOL!

Powerlifter,
Wow, I didn't know that about bloodwork. Thats not good news, as it almost sounds like its a little too late to do something when poor blood work is found. What does this mean in terms of health? Just because its not found, it doesn't mean that damage is not happening?

Tamukha
I have thought about it a bit more. I can remember when I was a child I WANTED to have really sugary coated everything! I was usually upset when my mother got something without it, or with less of it. And even worse, was severed some processed soy product which tasted like soaked paper. (this was considered "healthy" then I was a child) But I NOW appreciate the fact that they tried, and they didn't allow me to have all that stuff. Except for major holidays, and actually the usual roles completely broke down between thanksgiving and New years.I have a feeling that my friends neice and nephew will regret what they are being allowed to eat now, even though its 'fun' in the present.

I also have been thinking that I don't want to come accross as a 'food nazi'. Most of the foods that they think of as being 'healthy' are pretty narrow, like overly boiled brocoli, cabbage, and dry crusty bran muffins. Having no idea that there are plenty of things to choose from in vegetables, fruit, berries, nuts etc...things that they never have heard of. the other thing is that were they shop at the produce section is rather limited, and admittedly very sad. I even think that they don't taste the best. I think the children know this. They did have a totally different reaction to the fresh melon I grew this summer. So, its not like they are totally out of touch, as far as taste goes. Its difficult to compete with something enhanced with flavor chemicals, if you haven't had much real food.

Maybe something more positive is to really focus on my own concerns. I am finding that I secretly wish they would change, not a useful thought. The next is becoming educated and prepared for criticism if it ever happens again. And rather to expect it. Perhaps even choosing not to respond. It was a lot easier when I saw living by myself however.

Sometimes I find it helpful to bask in the love that's behind the comments/concern and to open heartedly thank the person expressing the concern. Like, "Thanks so much for caring enough to think about me and say something. I'm doing great but I really appreciate your concern."
Not always possible but it's a nice alternative to getting P.O.ed which is where I usually end up.

Coco,
well, I did something positive I suppose. Not exactly raw, but I got some white whole wheat flour and made somethings for people here. Its not raw, but it got them to eat something with a whole grain product, instead of the usual processed flour. They didn't tell the difference. I felt bad however, I think it caused some sluggish bowels to start moving.

The next step will be to make some 'steal raw' foods. I am sure there are some recipes out there that will knock their socks off, and they won't even know it was raw.

You know amazingly, they are interested in what I can make. Especially the children. But one of the aunts asked me to save something for the next time I saw her and said she could tell I would really know how to make healthy food taste great.