Its only an opinion. Maybe its just how he looks, maybe he would look worse eating like a normal person.

The issue is too complex for any of us to spectulate on and come to a solid conclusion! Just because some people think Doug Graham looks old dosen't mean there is anything wrong with the 80/10/10 diet. It dosen't change the fact that alot of people have had good results eating 80/10/10. It dosen't change the fact that the 80/10/10 book is still one of the best diet books out there.

I would have to say that the 80/10/10 diet is the best vegan diet out there. If 80/10/10 dosent work, than veganism dosen't work, and you should all be concerned about the long term!

Yes Im trying to stir a response!

Doug Graham is an athlete, and all athletes look tired (and older). That is one point I do not agree with him about. Constant exhaustion that extreme endurance training brings is NOT HEALTHY, and represents JUST ANOTHER ADDICTION.

response! response! response! It really has worked for me.

I do wish I would have had Rawgosia's approach more and it would have come nauturally. But, in all consideration, my version has been adopted to fit me and enjoy how I am doing it now.

I have seen mention that water intake can be at a minimum on this way of living. After a discussion with my anatomy professor I decided to try a gallon or more of water a day drinking habit. I've notice an immense increase in energy, restful sleep, and focus.

david





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2010 02:50PM by dvdai.

Do you have a recent pic? I seemed to recall someone posting one of him on here and he was extremely thin but I am reading "80/10/10" and he looks totally different on the back on that book. Or is that possibly an old shot of him?

If you look at a sea fisherman he will look much older than his years - why - because he has spent all his working hours out in the weather, screwing his eyes up against the glare. There are many reasons why someone might look older or younger than someone else their age.

I think this is a pointless discussion.

Also Rab - not all endurance athletes are exhausted. I know you have this opinion because you state it often. But it is a sweeping statement. Some athletes may be exhausted - I am a marathon runner and next year intend to do ultra's. I am also 48years old. I take time to recover after long runs, I enjoy the peace of mind that they bring me and I disagree with you whole heartedly that they are bad for me or an un natural practise. Running for a long time is amazing - i run long and I run slow - it keeps me energized, it is good for me. Is it an addiction - maybe, but no more than coming on this site regularly to tell other people that what they do is wrong or addictive. Please don't think that I am saying this in anger or exasperation. I truly am not and would like to be able to sit down with you and change your mind on this one Please just accept that regular, hard exercise is great for some people - it doesn't matter if that isn't what you want to do. I respect everyone's choices but don't want to be told that what I do is addictive or bad for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2010 06:39PM by flipperjan.

How old is he? Can you post a link to a recent picture?

flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you look at a sea fisherman he will look much
> older than his years - why - because he has spent
> all his working hours out in the weather, screwing
> his eyes up against the glare. There are many
> reasons why someone might look older or younger
> than someone else their age.
>
> I think this is a pointless discussion.
>
> Also Rab - not all endurance athletes are
> exhausted. I know you have this opinion because
> you state it often. But it is a sweeping
> statement. Some athletes may be exhausted - I am
> a marathon runner and next year intend to do
> ultra's. I am also 48years old. I take time to
> recover after long runs, I enjoy the peace of mind
> that they bring me and I disagree with you whole
> heartedly that they are bad for me or an un
> natural practise. Running for a long time is
> amazing - i run long and I run slow - it keeps me
> energized, it is good for me. Is it an addiction
> - maybe, but no more than coming on this site
> regularly to tell other people that what they do
> is wrong or addictive. Please don't think that I
> am saying this in anger or exasperation. I truly
> am not and would like to be able to sit down with
> you and change your mind on this one Please
> just accept that regular, hard exercise is great
> for some people - it doesn't matter if that isn't
> what you want to do. I respect everyone's choices
> but don't want to be told that what I do is
> addictive or bad for me.


I agree with this; I operate at my best & have the most energy after intense workouts. I have always been this way. When i wresteled in high school our coach used to put us through very greuling workout sessions and it has stuck with me all these years.

I thrive on the intensity, but I realize it may not be for everyone. ALso, many do not stay properly hydrated and replenish their electrolytes during intense bouts of activity, and I notice that those folks tend to look "older", if you will.

rab- If you read this article, Doug says he doesn't really train that much
[foodnsport.com]

What is your current daily and weekly workout schedule?
'See above. But really, I don't train much, never have. If I get an hour a day, on average, it is a lot. I have read many rumors of my long workouts, but honestly, they are not based in fact.'

Well, duriander has been bragging about marathons and how Doug is a great athlete, and also in teh 80-10-10 book he specifically says that "only athlete shape is a good shape for a man". I speak mostly of people who do endurance training daily, with records on their minds or playing competitive sports.

Running marathons at your own pace is not the kind I am talking about.
I feel the best when I run about 5 miles a day (at my own pace, ), and play sports (I like competitive table tennis the best, but since I can never find anyone to play with, I usually play basketball or soccer at work). So, I am not against sports or running at all. I have also played competitive basketball at younger age and followed sports ever since. Lately I have followed tennis and basketball, and what I see there is the misery of professional athlete's life. It is horrible. Tennis players 20 years old look like they are 45 sometimes, after super-human efforts. Same is for basketball players - huge guys forcing their bodies to do all kinds of moves. All of them play through injuries...I would like to write a book just about that. Their hearts are enlarged, and statistics say that on the average they do not live long.

That is why I am against athletic level of fitness - I am absolutely for the natural fitness, but it has to be very balanced. So, when I say "athlete" I mean record-breaking, stressed competitive training. It does not have to be professional to be harmful.

I agree with rab "Constant exhaustion that extreme endurance training brings is NOT HEALTHY". The body is put under constant stress. Let's look at animals in the wild, they are healthy without extreme exercises, they simply stretch their muscles.

Rab - i understand what you are saying now and see the distinctions you are making. I have never met any athletes of the level that you are describing so I can't really comment.

Regarding Doug Grahams comment about athletic shape being the best shape - well, i shrug - what does that mean? does he just mean someone who has lovely toned muscles through regular exercise or does he mean some horrid pumped look.

I don't take much notice of Durianriders constant bragging about his endurance except for if it makes some people feel inadequate which would be a shame. Of course it's nonsense, no one needs to do all that to be healthy.

Do you think all proffessional athletes lives are a misery? It really doesn't look that way to me.

RocketShip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How old is he? Can you post a link to a recent
> picture?

He is almost 60, all Im saying with this whole thread, is that people need to give him a break

WorkoutMan Wrote:
> He is almost 60, all Im saying with this whole
> thread, is that people need to give him a break
>


YOU originated this thread! LOL

I think he looks great. He looks like a fit man of his age.

He is looking better than a lot of men half his age!!!

I think there is no question that Graham looks great for a man of any age. He is an athlete after all. And his lifestyle has paid tremendous dividends for him. My concerns about his advice notwithstanding, there is no question he looks excellent. Agree with Prana that he looks very strong and lean. No question. So, in response to the OP, no he doesn't look old. Not by a long shot.

Paul

WorkoutMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RocketShip Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How old is he? Can you post a link to a recent
> > picture?
>
> He is almost 60, all Im saying with this whole
> thread, is that people need to give him a break
>
> [sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net].
> snc4/46296_423642689138_746859138_4951164_7654092_
> n.jpg64_7654092_n.jpg

he's 57.

Storm is older than Graham but look much younger, maybe it is the diet thing. Graham diet has very little fat and Storm physical training is of low resistance.


[www.raw-licious.com]

[www.thegardendiet.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2010 01:15AM by madinah.

Comparing cosmetic appearances of people with different races is like saying 'pelicans have larger beaks than seagulls because they swim faster'. Its a bit daft.

From day 1 anyone born with genetically darker skin is going to 'age' better based on hollywood standards. Why? cos darker skin is better adapted to the sun vs white skin.

I love it when these 'raw food; guru mushroom guzzlers say 'Im above judging people but Doug Graham sure does need to go see my botox clinician next time he is in LA.'

At the end of the day, Doug Graham is still the fittest and strongest man his age in the health food community period. Id like to see anyone out run/out lift/out wit and out agile him that is of similar age. Heck, he is way fitter/stronger than all the crew in the health food industry that say you need to eat vulture food to be strong and suck cows breast in the first 24hrs to get the colostrum.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Storm is older than Graham but look much younger,
> maybe it is the diet thing. Graham diet has very
> little fat and Storm physical training is of low
> resistance.
>
>
> [www.raw-licious.com]
> ood-61-years-old-and-has-been-a-raw-vegan-since-19
> 72/
>
> [www.thegardendiet.com]


It's obvious - Storm looks so much younger because he eats babies!

Just kidding. He DOES have a toddler on his hip in every photo, though.

RaeVynn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> madinah Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Storm is older than Graham but look much
> younger,
> > maybe it is the diet thing. Graham diet has
> very
> > little fat and Storm physical training is of
> low
> > resistance.
> >
> >
> >
> [www.raw-licious.com]
>
> >
> ood-61-years-old-and-has-been-a-raw-vegan-since-19
>
> > 72/
> >
> > [www.thegardendiet.com]
>
>
> It's obvious - Storm looks so much younger because
> he eats babies!
>
> Just kidding. He DOES have a toddler on his hip in
> every photo, though.


Yeah, but you know what they say: Black don't crack

Brian Clement is white and 60 years old but much much younger than Doug.
Sprouts and wheatgrass much healthier than fruit. Comparing Doug and Clement Doug is an old white man. It is the diet thing not the skin color. 8/10/10 cannot compete with sprouts and wheatgrass
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 07:14AM by madinah.

I'm not sure. It's hard to say I think unless you've met him. The pic above does not look bad but I have seen other pics of him that DO look old. Maybe he's just not photogenic? Some people just look old and ugly in front of a camera..myself included.

durianrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love it when these 'raw food; guru mushroom
> guzzlers say 'Im above judging people but Doug
> Graham sure does need to go see my botox clinician
> next time he is in LA.'
>

LOL. In that case it's more like observing. Dough Graham (or anyone) is teaching a way of eating that is new to most people. So people are going to look at him and question whether or not it's working for him and if they want to look like that. It's a different kind of judging compared to sitting around and calling random people ugly and stupid.

Hypothetically speaking.. If an overweight person has been on 811 for a year and their weight doesn't change despite them having energy and feeling good..and they're preaching 811.. Chances are people are going to notice that they are still overweight and not even consider 811. So, some people don't want to look like the fat person or the old guy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 07:43AM by BackAgain.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Clement is white and 60 years old but much
> much younger than Doug.
.<

This video shows more of his physical condition. I think they both look really good for their ages but young Doug wins the muscle contest. Here is the video: [www.youtube.com]

Doug looks old because of the sugar fruit sugar. [www.youtube.com]

Im not a fan of Doug, more so because i watched his candida videos today and i thought they were cringe worthy at best. Nothing medically sound at all, no mention of the good bacteria/stomach acid which keep candida and other opportunistic microbes in check.

That said hes 60 and he looks just the same in my opinion as others who live healthy as his age, no worse or better.

madinah,

Or, Doug Graham spends so much time exercising in the high desert sun that it's aged his face; Brian Clement isn't a sun worshipper, his living in FLA notwithstanding. Thus, it isn't proper to compare these two, with their wildly differing lifestyles, and attribute the differences between their appearance to diet.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> madinah,
>
> Or, Doug Graham spends so much time exercising in
> the high desert sun that it's aged his face; Brian
> Clement isn't a sun worshipper, his living in FLA
> notwithstanding. Thus, it isn't proper to compare
> these two, with their wildly differing lifestyles,
> and attribute the differences between their
> appearance to diet.

Geez, it was a basic comparison. What other raw food mentor would be a suitable comparison to Doug Graham in your opinion?

(These are two white men around 60yrs old, living and promoting a raw food diet for multiple decades, teachers and mentors in the lifestyle. Seems like a good comparison. The clear winner is Doug because he obviously considers the fitness of his body to be a high priority -- and that is a component of ones overall health. Or maybe Clements does work out just as much but because of his diet he doesn't have the same results...
Who knows. )

Clement works out, I have seen video of his wife talking about their workout. The reason why Doug and Clement are good comparison is that each thinks the other's diet is the wrong approach. Clement think we should limit fruit consumption while Doug is not for sprouts, greens, and sea vegies. They are about the same age, actually Doug is younger. They are both white so no skin color issue. Both workout. I think the difference is in the diet, one is fruit sugar, the other one is greens. The difference is very clear, fruit sugar make you age. [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 12:02AM by madinah.