I read another thread on here tonight asking about legitimate sources and such to be posted about a subject and it actually made me think of this thread.

Loeve, suncloud and although ive posted probably the most information on my thoughts these guys should be credited with helping an awful lot through this thread if not the most, i havent posted many cites mainly because due to being busy and secondary down to well why should i, ive posted what i believe and you can search google just as i can to get to the information.

But what gets to me is why is no one is able to post any information let alone credible in favour of what Graham is saying. Why arent we asking where is any credible information that candida exists in the blood for the majority and feeds on sugars there and so on? Which loeve has already debunked throughout this thread.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 09:14PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
> But what gets to me is why is no one is able to
> post any information let alone credible in favour
> of what Graham is saying.

I think Doug Graham picked up his misinformation about Candida from some misinformed dark field analysts. That is ironic, because elsewhere in his book Graham spends some time refuting their conclusions.

From Professor Enderleins's Darkfield Microscopy Training:
[www.darkfieldtraining.com]

Platelet aggregation, often entangled with fibrin, is frequently observed in dark field...
It is amazing how many dark field analysts world-wide diagnose these platelet aggregations as “Candida”. People with systemic candida infections are very ill and usually need treatment in an intensive care unit. They are hardly able to see a physician for live blood analysis in dark field.

Candida needs an acidic environment for existence (e.g. vagina pH2).
Normal blood plasma pH is 7.38 – 7.42. If this pH drops below 7.36 metabolic acidosis is imminent...
Even the blood drop of a cancer patient at the time of sampling has a pH of 7.36 or above.

----------------

Candida overgrowth can occur, and candida can morph into a pathogen and spread to unwanted parts of the body, but blood is too alkaline to support candida for any length of time. Candida Septicemia is often fatal: see for example:
[archsurg.ama-assn.org]

In defense of Graham, he spent less than one page of his 80/10/10 book on his theory that "Candida Eats Excess Blood Sugar", and it could have been omitted without affecting his argument.

Graham's main point was that although Candida outbreaks (like all yeasts) feed off sugar, including fruit sugar, it is unfair to blame excess sugar because a normal body has a mechanism to keep blood sugar levels within safe bounds, e.g. by insulin production or by "de novo lipogenesis" or by turning off the appetite. It is, on the contrary, the presence of too much fat in the bloodstream that stops insulin doing its job swiftly.

I think that Graham is largely right about fat, but I am not so sure that the type of fat is unimportant. Omega-3 fats have not been implicated in insulin-resistance. I am not sure that a high level of Omega-3 fats in the blood would have the same negative effect on insulin-function as other fats.

Lee H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Candida overgrowth can occur, and candida can
> morph into a pathogen and spread to unwanted parts
> of the body,

I just read a very interesting study regarding candida morphing into a pathogen. I am posting a link to in my next post if you are interested.

Gut flora controls yeast through competition for resources
… an activity termed the "barrier effect". Harmful yeasts… are unable to grow excessively due to competition from helpful gut flora species adhering to the mucosal lining of the intestine,…
[en.wikipedia.org]



Candida controlled by immune system and microorganisms competing for resources
Candida yeasts are commonly present in humans, and their growth is normally limited by the human immune system and by other microorganisms, such as bacteria occupying the same locations (niches) in the human body.

… Treatment with antibiotics can lead to eliminating the yeast's natural competitors for resources, and increase the severity of the condition.
[en.wikipedia.org]



Gut flora produce bacteriocin toxins that destroy yeast
Indigenous gut floras also produce bacteriocins…
Bacteriocins are pertinacious toxins produced by bacteria to inhibit the growth of similar or closely related bacterial strain(s)… They are phenomenologically analogous to yeast and paramecium killing factors…
[en.wikipedia.org]



Lactic acid inhibits growth of some harmful bacteria (yeast not mentioned)
Lactobacillus… are a major part of the lactic acid bacteria group,… make up a small portion of the gut flora. The production of lactic acid makes its environment acidic, which inhibits the growth of some harmful bacteria.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Candida is pathogenic at a wide variety of pH levels due to different gene expressions at different pH levels
Candida pathogenic at acidic pH 4 as vaginal candidiasis.
Candida albicans is a commensal organism that colonizes the mucosal surfaces of the oral-pharyngeal, gastrointestinal (GI) and urogenital tracts of most humans. In susceptible hosts, C. albicans is an opportunistic pathogen of these mucosal surfaces. However, C. albicans can also enter the bloodstream to cause systemic infections that are extremely life threatening with a mortality rate of (appx.)40 % despite the use of available anti-fungal therapies.
The sites that C. albicans colonizes as a commensal can vary in pH, both temporally and spatially. The pH of the oral cavity varies markedly resulting from changes in diet, the metabolism of other microflora and salivary flow. The GI tract shows dramatic spatial differences in pH, from extremely acidic in the stomach (pH 2), less acidic in the duodenum (pH 5), to alkaline in the intestine (pH 7.7). Systemic candidiasis can arise from endogenous organisms in the GI tract that escape into the bloodstream (pH 7.4) Thus, as a commensal and a pathogen, C. albicans must adapt to, and thrive in, diverse environmental pH.

The ability to adapt to extracellular pH is required for C. albicans pathogenesis. Two cell wall proteins, Phr1p and Phr2p, are differentially expressed in response to environmental pH. Phr1p is expressed at pH (greater or equal to) 5.5; Phr2p is expressed at pH (less than or equal to) 5 . Furthermore, these proteins are essential for pathogenesis in host sites where they are expected to be expressed: Phr1p is essential for systemic candidiasis (pH 7.4) and Phr2p is essential for vaginal candidiasis (pH 4)

…

As both a commensal and a pathogen, C. albicans must adapt to, and thrive in, a broad range of environmental pH. Using microarrays, we identified more than 500 genes that are differentially regulated in response to pH.
[hypha.stanford.edu]



pH of GI tract
The GI tract shows dramatic spatial differences in pH, from extremely acidic in the stomach (pH 2), less acidic in the duodenum (pH 5), to alkaline in the intestine (pH 7.7).
[onlinelibrary.wiley.com]

Good information there, they also produce anti-fungal substances which help protect against candida.

The gut flora is an amazing part of the body and one that shouldn't be under-estimated, its thought to be around 70-80 percent of the immune system also.

EDIT: On the PH bit you posted thats exactly what i said on the last page about being able to survive different PH's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 11:44AM by powerlifer.

So...

Question status:

What is the pH range of the GI tract per stage (stomach/duodenum/small intestine/large intestine/colon)?

stomach: pH 1.5-3.5 very acidic
duodenum: around pH 5 but varies due to neutralizing the acidic chyme with intestinal juices
remaining small intestine: around 7.7pH
large intestine/colon: pH 5.6-6.9 slightly acidic to almost neutral

What organs and chemicals does the body use to change the pH of stomach contents to the pH of the intestines during digestion?
organs: liver, gall bladder, pancreas
chemicals: unanswered

What pH range does intestinal candida survive in? verifiably pathogenic at pH 4-8

What pH level kills candida? unanswered

Specifically how does intestinal flora keep candida in check?
competition for resources, toxins, barrier effect, and help from the immune system

You missed the acids they secrete on the last bit such as lactic acid.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You missed the acids they secrete on the last bit
> such as lactic acid.

Moot point. Candida thrives in low pH environments. Lower pH than what the intestines are at. And we have yet to determine at what pH candida is destroyed. If you have a reference to support your statement then post it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 12:03PM by RocketShip.

RocketShip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You missed the acids they secrete on the last
> bit
> > such as lactic acid.
>
> Moot point. Candida thrives in low pH
> environments. Lower pH than what the intestines
> are at. And we have yet to determine at what pH
> candida is destroyed. If you have a reference to
> support your statement then post it.

It was you who posted the statement lol. The same goes for candida and other yeast and fungus.

Lactic acid inhibits growth of some harmful bacteria (yeast not mentioned)
Lactobacillus… are a major part of the lactic acid bacteria group,… make up a small portion of the gut flora. The production of lactic acid makes its environment acidic, which inhibits the growth of some harmful bacteria.

Candida is not a bacteria. The intestinal pH is well within the thriving range of candida.

Did you read my post? I said the same goes for candida, yeast and other fungus. Sheesh.

If you've read any of my posts you'll see from the start i said candida is polymorphic - a yeast in its natural form but can take the form of a pathogenic fungus also.

A simple search in google throws up much research that the same lactic acid bacteria inhabit the growth of candida albicans and other yeast/fungus species.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 01:02PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you read my post? I said the same goes for
> candida, yeast and other fungus. Sheesh.
>

LOL, Well I said that you should post a link supporting your statement.
By my count you have provided ZERO supportive links for any of your claims.
By my count you have provided ZERO supportive links for answering the quesstions that I posted -- which will help to prove or disprove your claims.

Well you posted the supportive link yourself so i didnt need too.

What makes it so hard to search lactic acid bacteria and say candida albicans etc. It takes two seconds. I dont have the time or effort to sit and pander to your every needs. Surely if you can work a computer you can search anything you like to provide references, ive gave you the bulk through my replies it really isnt that hard. Sitting digging out references and studies all day to your every need certainly does take abit of time. Time i dont have, i have people i need to see too, i have an online and offline business i need to take care of, let alone normal tasks.

its all fine switching over here and a quick rapid post, but sitting all day searching for studies and research i dont have time for, you should be more than capable of that yourself especially since im doing most of the leg work in the information for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 07:50PM by powerlifer.

That's right... I AM Super Rocketship!

Don't get de-fen-sive... get ref-er-ence-ive. Yo.

LOL, you have spent your time in this thread trying to counteract anything ive said, loeve has posted and so on. Which for any reason i dont know or care.

if it is to support the original theorys by Graham then why arent you posting supportive or any information in his favour?

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which for any reason i dont know
> or care.
>

You still don't understand? To correct your inaccuracies.

Which you havent been able to do so far, you've added more information fair enough but anything ive said hasnt been wrong to date.

Dark field analysis is practiced by Robert O. Young and I've watched a video where he's pointing out candida in a blood sample based on appearance only (no mention of doing a lab culture).

It's easier to prove something wrong then to prove something right. I used to get perlèche (sores at the corners of the mouth) as a pasta vegetarian, and used to take lysine (an amino acid short in wheat) to manage that symptom.

I was just looking at this wiki article on [en.wikipedia.org] and am wondering if these diseases are all relatively external and easy to diagnose by appearance or by taking a swab sample and doing a lab culture.

On body areas difficult to reach, I was reading somewhere that taking a sample from the small intestine can be done by inserting a tube, but it's a difficult and expensive test, so they mostly rely on breath tests these days to diagnose small intestine flora irregularities.

Just because candida is a common diagnosis externally doesn't mean it's the cause internally, but I can see why it might be suspected.

>
> If you've read any of my posts you'll see from the
> start i said candida is polymorphic - a yeast in
> its natural form but can take the form of a
> pathogenic fungus also.
>


Its true!Candida is a yeast-like fungus that lives on human skin. It can be found on the mouth, in the intestine and, for women, in the vagina. A Candida infection or Candidiasis can occur on a variety of locations throughout the body so Pathogenic fungi from athlete's foot fungus adhesion (joint spore germination and hyphal extension) and invasive (depending on a variety of protease), and host resistance and immune response, causing skin lesions. . Remembering that Candida already lives on the skin and in the mouth, intestinal tract, and vagina, it will come as no surprise to you that these sites are the most common areas for localized (contained to one part of the body) Candida infections.

Ive been watching over at another forum and some of the information is horrible and i feel sorry for those who follow it so blindly at times without questioning anything.

Theres one lady who thinks why she was feeling ill yesterday was because nut butters were being excreted from her cells. A shame i know, some alternative modalities arent that verifiable from science, but i half feel like posting just to say that no nut butters you ate in the past are now excreting out your cells causing you to be ill. Its like anyone makes there own science and theorys today. Anyway that same forum is pretty bad, even the guru is touting bad science, one post i read was about HIIT and he blatantly disregarded pretty much every study which has shown time(hiit) vs time(endurance) that HIIT burns more calories aswell as stimulating the resting metabolic rate for hours on end causing more weight loss.

Sometimes i feel honored for the very basic information ive learned, i guess i was in the same boat 5-6 years back when i was willing to listen to anyone and anything to get better. Some of the stuff i tried for candida was damn right crazy and harmful. Such as MMS, i see theres now a MMS2 which is another dangerous chemical being touted as a heal all.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 08:54PM by powerlifer.