...sauerkraut?

Thinking about D. Grahams answer here:
[www.vegsource.com]

// Jacob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 01:58PM by Healthybun.

They are fermented rather than rotten.

Yeah, so we can't compare an air-fermentation with non-air-fermentation, right?

Im not very up on chemistry but it has something to do with carbon dioxide i think.

Rotting is a general term for decomposition of organic materials. Fermentation is a more specific process that converts the sugars and carbohydrates to acids and alcohols. Powerlifer is right that fermentation produces carbon dioxide as an off-gas rather than ammonia and hydrogen sulfide, which account for smell of 'rot'.

Rotten cabbage and sauerkraut are not quite the same. You might have to bone up on some biochemistry to get a deeper understanding of the differences though.

It seems rawfoodexplained.com have this opinion about fermented foods.
[www.rawfoodexplained.com]

I don't agree with much of that article. The author seems to confuse concepts and pose opinion as fact. First off, fish can't ferment. It's not high enough in carbohydrate.

Fermentation starts with carbohydrates by definition and produces alcohol or acids. Putrefation starts with protein and can produce ammonia. Rancidification starts with fats.

Quote

There are a number of animal-based foods from different parts of the world that are described as being "fermented." However, the term is erroneous when applied to such foods because fermentation properly means the decomposition of carbohydrates, and since animal tissues are composed of proteins and lipids, and contain at most only traces of carbohydrates, the operative processes in the transformation undergone by these foods are actually putrefaction and rancidification.

The difference is more than technical since the end products of these processes are quite different from those of fermentation, and also because putrefied/rancidified foods are often dangerous for human consumption. For instance, Alaska, despite its small population, witnesses more cases of botulism than any other U.S. state [2]

--Citezendium

Fermentation has documented benefits in some foods. In cassava, it eliminates the antinutrient cyanogenic glucoside, which causes the release of poisonous cyanide. Cassava is a food staple in much of the world where fresh food is not available.

Quote

Fermentation of cassava roots by soaking which is very popular in Africa is one of the most effective techniques for cyanogen removal, and when this is followed by drying, especially sundrying, it is possible to obtain a cyanogen-free product.

--International Workshop on Cassava Safety

The refusal to acknowledge any benefits from any kind of fermentation sounds like 'raw guru nonsense’. There seems to be more of that out there than real information.

Fermented foods aren’t required in the diet when fresh, whole foods are available year round. But, my take on it is if you think fermenting allows you to eat in the off-season, makes some foods easier to eat, adds variety to your diet, or makes things tastier for you, there is no reason to avoid it (except alcohol).

Thanks veghunter!

Good post veghunter and i agree it sounds like the typical nonsense with no fact just opinion getting stated as fact.

Its as simple as fermented food is not the same as rotten food so im not sure why Doug would say that.

And actually many studies have shown fermented soya such as miso have documented health benefits such as reducing the risk of cancer especially of the breast. Increasing bone density, reducing risk of heart disease and so on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 10:53AM by powerlifer.

Not everything in rawfoodexplained is wrong. The author is to my knowledge correct in saying that fermented foods do not help intestinal health in any permanent, fundamental way. Things like yogurt, etc. do assist the intestines while passing through, but for those particular microorganisms to actually be able to implant, they'd have to be consumed for a very long time, and even then it is not a sure thing. (We are supposed to be "colonized" at birth but the un-natural birthing practices of the modern world mitigate against that occurring as thoroughly as it should.)

I got some of my opinions on this from Robert Gray's book on bowel cleansing and intestinal health. He says that unless you are on your deathbed, you have at least some tiny amount of healthy bacteria in your gut. What you do is feed these few pitiful bacteria the stuff they like, avoid bad foods, and there you are. Stuffing ourselves on bulgaricus this or thermophilus that is only a temporary benefit.

Anyway, I agree with you, veghunter, that some fermented foods are tasty, harmless, and widen the variety of foods available in the off-season. And where I live, the off-season is long. Therefore, I do natural-type pickling of cucs, kohlrabi and whatever else I can find in the garden.

The best thing to do is to feed your good bacteria via prebiotic fibers such as FOS, inulin, seaweeds etc. These will help feed all the types of good bacteria that inhabit your digestive tract/colon.

That is not to mean fermented foods don't help repopulate the flora.

Graham sound like an idiot. Is he a real doctor?

Great info VegHunter!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2010 08:29AM by VeganLife.

"Graham sound like an idiot. Is he a real doctor?"

...Hundreds of thousands of "real doctors" advise to eat meat daily, they close their eyes for HFCS and other poisons, among other things. Hundreds of thousands of "real doctors" advise against vegan diet and prescribe "medication", more "medication" and even more "medication". So, "real doctors" are big pharma servants, NOTHING ELSE.

VeganLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Graham sound like an idiot. Is he a real doctor?
>
> Great info VegHunter!

Hes a chiropractor i believe from what ive read, so yeah not a convential doctor. I dont really think its right to sell health products/books/tv shows using the DR tag unless you are a conventional MD. It is pretty obvious its used to add weight to selling the books, gillian mckeith is similar she used to use the DR tag also when she isnt a doctor.

Infact gillian mckeith ran into trouble for using the doctor tag to sell her books/products. Now shes not aloud to use it to promote her products.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2010 04:27PM by powerlifer.