Hello All
I have lost 45 pounds in 6 months on the raw food lifestyle. My question is "How do I get rid of the pale and washed out look I have on my face. I'm starting to look frail and weak with the dreaded sunken eyes and cheeck syndrom. Do I need to start eating meat and potatoes for a while or do I need to not worry about it and keep pressing on. I have a feeling it's the Detox of all my internal poisins comming out. I seem to go 100% raw for 4 days and then on the 5th day I'll eat garbage and have to detox all over again. Could this vicious cycle cause me to look sick all the time.

After only a few months on raw food I found impossible to eat "garbage" as I was sick every time I even tried. I am not an expert at all, but I feel that it is correct to say that our intestines get clean and therefore "garbage" food has worse effect on raw vegans than on other people.
I would stay raw, but follow the 80-10-10 or close to it. Exercise is important, fresh air, sunlight, good sleeping habbits, low stress etc. etc.

It doesnt sound like a detox mate, id watch carefully too many get responses on the forum its just detox keep going when they could be doing further harm.

If your pale you may well be anemic, forgetting iron to start are you supplementing with vitamin b12? See if you can get a blood test for iron from your doctors most should do this.

Same goes for other hard to get nutrients such as iodine(seaweeds are the only rich source), vitamin D and protein for some. A guy on another raw forum worked out for me how to get the RDA protein for me i.e 80g on 80/10/10 and you needed alot of food. Crazy amounts such as 10 cups of kale, 10 cups of chard and other uneatable amounts. 10 cups of these goitrogen containing foods would shut down anyones thyroid raw. It would have been wiser to up the bananas which contain 1g of protein but even then there was 20 odd bananas in that daily food routine along with lots of other fruit and it was still hard to get the full 80g per my weight.

Go to cooked vegan first before you give up and go with meat i say.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 06:35PM by powerlifer.

What are you eating? You may not be eating enough food.

I see in various places the necessity of a "low stress" life necessarily going along with raw veganism. Well, reality says that some people at some points in their lives are going to be faced with some serious stress (in the sense of excessive).

That is why we have to listen to our bodies and urges at such times. If we crave junk food, we have to try to figure out why we want that particular junk food - is it for the calcium, the salt, the protein, the fat - what?

Sounds to me like you have lost too much weight, assuming that you weren't over-fat in the first place.

Now go and look after yourself! This life is a one-way trip; make it as long, healthy and happy as you can.

"Could this vicious cycle cause me to look sick all the time?"

Yes certainly. I think you've already figured it out.

I agree completely with powerlifer and Horsea.

I agree with rab that exercise is important, especially outdoor exercise, if possible.

I agree with Rocketship that you may not be eating enough - of the foods that your body needs.

Sounds to me like you're right smack inside that vicious cycle that raw fooders sometimes find themselves (including me some years ago). It starts at Step 1: overly restrictive raw food detox/denying yourself of essential raw nutrients because your first priority is getting rid of all the bad stuff. That's OK for a little while; but as time goes on, it could lead to deficiencies that make you look sunken and pale.

As a result of an over-energized pursuit of Step 1, the body's very natural response is Step 2: overwhelming hunger, expressing itself as a desire for forbidden foods.

Uh Oh. Now comes Step 3: Giving in to garbage food cravings!

And then of course we're right back again to Step 1, and the vicious cycle continues. We feel discouraged with ourselves for "giving in", and we feel desperate and determined to "detox". (Aren't we supposed to reach physical perfection as a sign that our detox is successful and complete?.....IMO, No!)

Hey. It's not working for you. I suggest that you try something else that will allow you to stay away from the garbage and travel a more steady course. It may not be the exact recommended diet of your favorite raw food guru.

Do you know for sure that your raw food regime includes sufficient vitamins and minerals? Or are you perhaps assuming you'll automatically get enough of all the essential nutrients as long as you follow a certain system?

If so, you might want to reconsider.

Following any steady diet successfully - including a raw food diet - requires you to have the knowledge and the will to include in your diet all the essential nutrients you need. Just giving up all the bad stuff won't be enough for long-term success.

You can eat raw - and definitely vegan - if that's what you want. But if you've been restricting certain raw vegan foods, try adding more of them. You don't have to go way overboard - although there might be that tendency at first while your body plays "catch-up", especially on your minerals.

Some things you might try, if you're not doing these already: Experiment a little more with nuts and seeds (organic of course), try sprouting some grains/legumes. Maybe try some raw wheat germ. Eat seaweed for the iodine. Ferment some stuff. You might find that with more raw variety, and more of it, the garbage cravings will dissipate. If you do eat cooked food, including more varied raw foods might allow you to more easily avoid garbage foods, and it will be easier for you to stay vegan and satisfied.

You can always go back any time to whatever you've been attempting to do that so far hasn't been working. If it works later, fine. If it never works, that's fine too.

And if you're not doing so already, add lots of exercise to your routine. You will be surprised with the detox results of plain pure exercise and good healthy raw vegan food.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 12:45AM by suncloud.

make sure you eat enough leafy green vegetables. just because another person restricts or can't eat 10 cups of a green doesn't mean you can't.

ventures,

Read about my detox experience in this post Re: How to end chronic fatigue. For me, I needed to just allow the detox to fully happen.

But going back and forth between clean raw foods and eating junky cooked foods is not going to really allow your body to detox. It may be that you need to slow down your transition right now, until you can get into a state where you don't desire the cooked foods, especially if you get drawn to really junky foods. Perhaps instead of restricting the cook foods, allow yourself to eat some when you desire it, so that you don't get drawn into eating tons of it. And over time, you desire will lessen.

Your story is different from mine Prana, but significant for sure. One thing you and I do have very much in common is that yoga has helped both of us - a lot.

Referring to the link you provided above, did you detox at 20% then? Or did you detox at less than 20%, then go up to 20% after detox, and then down to 10% after a couple of years?

What difficulties (if any) did you experience at 10% that kept you higher than that for a couple of years?

And what difficulties (if any) did you experience at 20% that made you want to go to 10%?

Do you follow a regular year-round exercise program besides yoga? When (or if) you have times that you are exercising more, do you ever find it more comfortable to eat more nuts/seeds?

Sorry about all the questions. No problem if you don't feel like answering!

Oh. Just one more: Will you be eating all raw this Thanksgiving?

(Whatever the case, Happy Thanksgiving!)

suncloud,

When I first heard Doug speak, I immediately went to 10% fat. I kept myself at 10% fat until after my detox. But what I found was I was not ready to eat low fat, and I was using a lot of control to keep myself there as the desire for fat was there. Also, before learning about low fat I was eating a raw restaurants every so often. But then when I went to low fat, I didn't. And I missed that (mostly the entertainment of it). So I let go of the control, allowed myself to eat more fat and a gourmet meal once a week.

So the difficulties were centered around desire mostly.

What I found was once I had the awareness of how much fat I was eating, that over time, my desire for fat all the time disappeared. I found myself going days without overt fats. I was having fun with 20% fat, but I found myself still over time getting the cleaner and lower fat options at the raw restaurants, and my home food was pretty much 80/10/10.

Currently I work outdoor 2 days a week, where I am doing a lot of physical work. It could be digging dirt with a shovel, chopping firewood by hand, carrying heavy things, light construction, gardening, forest fire prevention. This is pretty physical work, and keeps my muscles quite firm.

During the winter my consumption of nuts and seeds goes up a bit because of the low availability of great fruits. Even in the winter, I will have many overt fat free days. And during the summer I often have weeks without overt fats.

And yes, I will be eating all raw for Thanksgiving. I have been eating all raw for over 8 years (minus some of the random not-really-raw items found in gourmet raw restaurant food over the years).

What make eating more fats work better for me is if I am really hungry. When I am well fed on sweet fruit, and I eat fats, then I feel slow and sluggish after eating the fat. But if I am hungry, and I haven't eat for a long time, then the nuts feel good and digest easefully.

Maybe for some people raw foods (mainly) + exercise won't cut it. Maybe some people need extra help such as what might be provided by parasite and liver cleansing.

Utopian Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> make sure you eat enough leafy green vegetables.
> just because another person restricts or can't eat
> 10 cups of a green doesn't mean you can't.

It is quite easy to eat 10 cups of lettuce or other greens, but 20 cups of goitrogen containing vegetables that are the only ones that can make up the desired protein. Ill give a miss, i had a thyroid disorder before and that would be a sure fire way for me to return to it and slow my thyroid down to nothing.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utopian Life Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > make sure you eat enough leafy green vegetables.
>
> > just because another person restricts or can't
> eat
> > 10 cups of a green doesn't mean you can't.
>
> It is quite easy to eat 10 cups of lettuce or
> other greens, but 20 cups of goitrogen containing
> vegetables that are the only ones that can make up
> the desired protein. Ill give a miss, i had a
> thyroid disorder before and that would be a sure
> fire way for me to return to it and slow my
> thyroid down to nothing.

Surely you realize that you can get desired protein without goitrogenic vegetables. So why this was even brought up? Hmm..

To get the 80g daily i needed it was actually harder than you might imagine, we tried a few different plans via fitday and it was beginning to get to silly amounts of fruits to gain the desired protein RDA for me.

The outcome for the grams of carbohydrates began to get silly with it also, into 1500g which cant be healthy.

Anyway the only reason it was brought up was that he might not be getting adequate protein or other nutrients by the sounds of it, if he is not designing his daily raw plan well.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 01:32PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To get the 80g daily i needed it was actually
> harder than you might imagine, we tried a few
> different plans via fitday and it was beginning to
> get to silly amounts of fruits to gain the desired
> protein RDA for me.
>
> The outcome for the grams of carbohydrates began
> to get silly with it also, into 1500g which cant
> be healthy.
>
> Anyway the only reason it was brought up was that
> he might not be getting adequate protein or other
> nutrients by the sounds of it, if he is not
> designing his daily raw plan well.


Actually, the carbs were 500-600 g. We can link the thread if you want to keep referring to it inaccurately.

Actually when you took out the masses of kale and chard and replaced with fruit the carbs came to well over a 1000.

Even with the masses of goitrogen containing vegetables it only came to 60g odd so it was pretty unworkable, i tried a few days again and if it wasnt for the fruit i would have been nowhere near 80g of protein.

Anyway this thread isnt really about this, i was just making the reference as by the sounds of it hes not getting anywhere near enough nutrients. So lets get back on topic, have you made any progress OP? Definitley look into getting some blood work done if you can.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 05:04PM by powerlifer.

Thanks Prana for the info!

I second the suggestion from powerlifer about getting some blood work done.

As far as the 80 grams of protein, you have to remember that the RDAs were established primarily for groups like schools and the military. (In fact they got their start in 1940 duirng WWII as guidlines for how to feed the large numbers of people in the military).

They also determined the minimum amount of a nutrient needed and then added safety margins, maybe they studied caffeteria and military eating patterns and found that a lot of food was thrown away (because not everyone likes everything given to them in a food line) and determined that they need to provide extra food just to make sure that everyone had enough.

So if you are trying to folow the RDAs, that means you are trying to eat for the needs of the most needy in your group and you are also eating the safety margin.


[books.google.com]

[en.wikipedia.org]
"The final set of guidelines, called RDAs for Recommended Dietary Allowances, were accepted in 1941. The allowances were meant to provide superior nutrition for civilians and military personnel, so they included a "margin of safety." Because of food rationing during the war, the food guides created by government agencies to direct citizens' nutritional intake also took food availability into account"

for me, i need about 40 to 50 g. of protein, but due to the amount of cardio and other workouts i do (including lifting), i eat more food than the average person on a non-high-fruit diet, so i eat more calories and end up with more protein, of course, due to the higher calories, not because i'm trying to get more protein specifically. so i get around 70-90 g. without trying.

i can't speak for why powerlifer chose 80 g.

Well i weigh around 85kg the last time i remember, the RDA is 1g even if we go below too what some health people advice we have 0.8g per kg of protein so yeah around 70-80g of protein.