Here is a vid I did yesterday in the Philippines.

[www.youtube.com]

I still find it hard to say whether its natural or not, its definitively the most health promoting lifestyle in my opinion.

But it isnt exactly natural to have to supplement b12 injections/supplements and so on. But its give and take id rather take a little b12 supplement now and again that feel ill like i did from dairy, meat etc.

For people who really like animals, I think it's very natural to do whatever it takes not to eat them.

As for dairy, it seems that many mammal mothers think milk is just for babies (preferably of the same species as the Mom).

How sad...I just don't want to think about it. But it is sad for both humans and the animals. It is sad that humans do not really know who they are?
We should not blame the people for eating meat. They just do what they have been taught to do. I only blame the establishment, scientists, doctors for silence, for lies. People who know the truth should be blamed, not all people.

Go vegan vids is definately your strength. (As opposed to the just eat carbs message.)

When it comes to videos... shorter is sweeter, imo. Do you really expect a non-vegan to sit through lengthy graphic images of death and slaughter? Nope. The first couple minutes of your vid was great... taunting people to think about their choices in an entertaining and non-graphic manner. Make them think!

I lol'd @ some of the comments and the Linkin Park music. Or maybe it's because I know too much about the band and the real meaning behind the "crawling" song and well..they're not exactly vegan.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still find it hard to say whe
> But it isnt exactly natural to have to supplement
> b12 injections/supplements and so on.

Yeah, but then people would just argue that people weren't "eating right" to begin with if they were deficient in b12.

I don't think "natural" is the right word to use. Maybe optimal? I think "naturally" humans survival instincts kick in and they eat whatever they have to to survive. There have been times that the only thing I could afford was a jar of natural PB or almond butter. That's about $2 for 3 days of food. The only raw thing I could get for that is 2lbs of carrots or banannas and that isn't exactly filling.

Then again..assuming that animals aren't being hurt or abused, why vegan over vegetarian anyway? I've known vegetarians who have their own farms/farm animals and treat their animals like kids and eat the eggs and drink the raw milk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2010 04:42AM by BackAgain.

BackAgain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think "naturally" humans survival
> instincts kick in and they eat whatever they have
> to to survive.

Good point.

I think our natural diet is anything that we could feasibly obtain and consume in nature without the use of weapons or knives. LOL

BackAgain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I still find it hard to say whe
> > But it isnt exactly natural to have to
> supplement
> > b12 injections/supplements and so on.
>
> Yeah, but then people would just argue that people
> weren't "eating right" to begin with if they were
> deficient in b12.
>
> I don't think "natural" is the right word to use.
> Maybe optimal? I think "naturally" humans survival
> instincts kick in and they eat whatever they have
> to to survive. There have been times that the
> only thing I could afford was a jar of natural PB
> or almond butter. That's about $2 for 3 days of
> food. The only raw thing I could get for that is
> 2lbs of carrots or banannas and that isn't exactly
> filling.
>
> Then again..assuming that animals aren't being
> hurt or abused, why vegan over vegetarian anyway?
> I've known vegetarians who have their own
> farms/farm animals and treat their animals like
> kids and eat the eggs and drink the raw milk.

Aye good point that's pretty much what i meant, i dont think its a natural diet as in the past they probably ate all kinds of meat to survive etc.

But like i say it is definitely the most optimal and health promoting lifestyle if done right.

> I think our natural diet is anything that we could
> feasibly obtain and consume in nature without the
> use of weapons or knives. LOL


brb. Looking for a stick so I can peel my orange.. LOL

Use your fingers!

The acid burns my skin and I don't have nails. lol

I think animal products is like beastiality personally.

:0

The thing about using animals for food or hair or fur or eggs or honey or whatever is where do we draw the line? And who's to say if it's a common practice that everyone is doing it compassionately and ethically? And also just who are we to domesticate (isn't that just a pretty word for "enslave" animals from their natural heirarchy and lifestyles? We don't know better than nature after all, it's pure arrogance to think that we do.

Just some thoughts.

"We should not blame the people for eating meat. They just do what they have been taught to do. I only blame the establishment, scientists, doctors for silence, for lies. People who know the truth should be blamed, not all people."

Yes, that is a problem. As I stated elsewhere, I am taking a Human Anatomy and Physiology class. Its the second semester, very complex! Alot of very technical terms. Also very old school as far as nutrition, vitamins, nutrients. Of course favoring more traditional notions. But I am finding that I am at a loss to really objectively evaluate the information. Its what the establishment has advanced as being the best. Its an authority of sorts, so I either accept it or reject it. As far as raw foods go, its also an authority. How am I supposed to know what is correct?

I don't have my own lab to look at my cells before and after some change in lifestyle, and I actually don't know enough yet to even know what I would be looking at. The other part is, that if I go by what the text says, that could be wrong, if the theory is wrong, even though its 'right' by the old school...I don't know if I am making any sense.

I never really got why it's wrong to eat animal PRODUCTS (not the flesh itself) if the conditions are truly humane. I am talking ethical reasons here, not health-wise. Some people are very intolerant of dairy and some (like me) probably would benefit from avoiding it but it's not an acute reaction to it.

our intestines are way too long for us to have been eating meat very recently evolution wise. Its funny people argue whether vegan and cooked is what we are supposed to eat. Humans are amazing creatures, and I feel like If I eat veggies and feel great, then my ancestors probably did too. Though like all drugs, cooked food hit humans like a ton of bricks and the second he tasted his sin he couldn't seperate from it. We built whole civilizations around grains, and various cooked foods. So I feel like the optimal ideal diet for humans is that which makes him feel most human. I feel like it's OK for us to accept that we are evolving and eating raw vegan food is a way to be a part of the answer, not the problem. Even ancient man ate over 80-90% raw vegan, just think about the amount of foliage on earth long ago. Supposedly, I read somewhere recently, that Super ancient man ate soley vegetation more like passive foragers, like rabbits grazing. This is the way I feel, once I reconnected to our history by eating raw greens I felt alive and spiritually connected to leaves and the general green of earth. I also feel like its not vital to take weird b12 vitamins. I am blessed to be able to buy the RAW brand vitamins. so they are created through probiotic growth. I love it!!!!! no chemical factory crap in my blood!

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

We also have to take into account that they probably made some correlation between not including meat in there diet and feeling ill i.e b12 deficiency.

"We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It’s one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it’s another to think that yours is the only path." – Paulo Coelho

I love that quote luvyuu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Ok, ancient vegan humans never had B12 deficenty due to their close association with animals as say 'pets', and not being so clinically clean. B12 is produced by bacteria which is all over animals and in the dirt.

Also, I believe drought, travel or both, were the catalyst which kicked off a search for foods that would keep for long periods. Such as grains, or smoked/dried meat etc. Just my thought is all.

Who cares if it's natural or not?

If I wanted totally natural I wouldn't be typing this out on a computer wearing synthetic fabrics in my very unnatural human built house!

The question to ask is: Can it sustain human life? Can we thrive on a vegan diet, can we help solve many problems on such a diet, is it a kinder diet?

The answers for me are all yes.

i read like a longggggg time ago ..im trying to remember how i found the info , i think i was looking up the reason why we have a appendix .. and i remember reading about it used to be a larger organ that had something to do with digesting cellulose before entering the colon

so perhaps with a larger appendix maybe there was no b12 mal-absorbtion issues and therefore we could have lived on a mostly if not entirely plant based diet ..unfortunately with the onset of cooking and meat eating the appendix shrunk to its near useless state ..except to become inflamed under the right conditions ..

i will try and find the info againtommorrow when im not so tired but this was a quite a number of years ago nuff to make ya think tho .. hmmm

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2011 09:19AM by Jgunn.

Yes Jgunn, I remember that idea as well. However, I recently read a journal article where evidence suggests that the appendix has a function related to our immune system. I don't remember exactly, and I don't believe I copied the article either, oh bother.

Isn't it a part of the lymphatic system?
If you've ready any Farley Mowatt his story about beavers seconds that idea of cellulose breakdown.

The appendix can manufacture primitive probiotics if the duodenum can't. Or so the latest hypothesis holds.

To me the question isn't whether it's natural but whether its healthy and optimal. It might be natural to die early from infectious disease but that isn't an outcome I want. Remember, natural selection is designed to ensure survival of the species, not an individual within a species. After we procreate, nature has little use for us.

Good points Paul, I have to say I agree with them all,lol.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Pborst,
" Remember, natural selection is designed to ensure survival of the species, not an individual within a species. After we procreate, nature has little use for us."

The longevity of each individual matters collectively. For instance if there is a protective factor, each individual, and the collective of the species may live longer on average. This could totally change the biology of a species.

For instance, people once thought that the mass of an animal was predictive for longevity, but if you equal out the mass, and take into account protective factors, the species with an edge generally has a longer average life span. Mice verses birds of the same size, the birds average a longer life span. Turtles verses animals of the same size without the protective shell, I would bet the turtles live longer.

Intelligence in humans is supposed to be a protective factor, but sometimes I don't know! We are the only species that has that weird 'latent period' between early childhood and the teen years. That is probably because we live pretty long relative to our mass. Just an idea.