Yeps...its been happening the past few years....but sadly, some people and raw food companies that supported all raw vegan living are no longer doing so. I was sad to find out that one particular website that also hosts a daily *tv show* and sells tons of raw lifestyle products now sells pearl powder (from oysters) and fish oil, while claiming to support a raw vegan/beegan lifestyle. When I wrote to them about it, one of the founders of the company said that they didnt know about the product, and said *people must have requested it*. Seems like selling out to make a buck to me! Isnt any company in it with their ideals intact anymore??? Or is it all about the almighty dollar??? Its really sad and disappointing!

Roxannes didn't make it, and in a sense people do vote with their dollars. Some resturant owners don't exactly like raw food because it does raise operating costs. So said one resturant owner in a city I won't mention. I don't live there anymore, so I guess it doesn't matter. He sometimes made these wonderful raw soups, but stopped because nobody wanted them.

I think it's a fine line to maintain with this niche a market; there's a lot of crossover with non vegan rawists, and paleo raw people. It may be just a fact of business that they need to spread the net a bit wider to remain viable in this economy. I would rather a mostly vegan company continue to exist by selling products like these--which I wouldn't buy--to people that want them(and others offered) than for the mostly vegan company to go under totally. It would be great if one such a business could stay true to their principles no matter what, but that isn't always possible.

What's beegan?

Oh is it vegans who eat honey?

I think so. Trying to cute-ify a very unvegan practice. Not a judgment about using bee stuff there, just a statement.

The only raw vegan company I need is a farmer/gardener.

david

Well, part of the confusion is how exactly vegetarian or vegan is defined. There does seem to be a lot of ignorance. I know a lot of people who believe that fish are not animals, along with insects. I got into a very strange debate with someone because I called a spider a 'carnivore'. He said they don't eat animals, so they can't be that. But in fact there are spiders large enough to eat shrews, mice, birds, even small bats. But, insects are animals, and have flesh, even though in most cases its very small bits of flesh.

I have met a person who is generally vegan, but occationally has dairy. Like once every few years, but only very ethically and gently produced. So, maybe that contributes to the sense of confusion.

I think one person produced a raw vegan recipe book which included honey, and also maple syrup. Honey and other bee products are not vegan, and most maple syrup has been boiled. Actually I have never heard of raw maple syrup, but maybe thats next!

Veganreikiangel, you can always start your own company and products.

I would be disappointed if a self-designated vegan company were selling animal products, but the raw and living-food umbrella encompasses a much broader group of non-vegans as well as raw vegans. So, no, I don't share in this particular view. Egg yolk and fish are consumed raw by people who are 100% raw and, well they are raw. I don't consider these things to be a problem.

If you specialize too much you decrease your customer base, it's very hard to survive in the business world if you don't diversify. I totally understand.

As long as the ingredients are labled, and if the product claims to be vegan it actually should be. I can understand the frustration, I see a mismatch between ingrient lables, and a broader labeling on the package.

For instance, I have seen bacon grease in a product labled "kosher". Hydrogenated oils in a 'transfat free' package. Fish in a 'vegetarian formula'. Maybe thats a different issue altogether.

Did the company represent itself as being all raw and all vegan?

How can someone NOT KNOW fish is an animal?

We have got to fix our nation's schools, etc. . . . .

Didn't they used to do that on an airline flight if you asked for a vegetarian meal, serve you fish or even chicken? I am nearly positive that used to happen. Because, you know, fish and chickens aren't *meat*.

If you tell some people you eat a raw diet they offer you a sandwich. "It's not cooked, right? You can eat this."

coco,

When I first became a vegetarian, in the early 90's, I used to have to modify: "meat, and by meat I mean flesh food, land or sea . . ." It was tedious, but eventually the general culture caught on so I didn't have to explain it anymore.

At the veg restaurant where I worked in the early aughts, we had a bumper sicker on the water heater in the kitchen. It was to remind waitstaff how to deal with meat eating diners who would try to order fish, though we didn't offer it:

Fish is not a vegetable

Apparently, no one questioned this once they heard it

Tamukha,
My partner used to always call himself a 'catholic vegetarian'. By that he meant he avoided beef and pork, forbidden items during lent. So, he would eat chicken and fish, seafood etc on occation. Most of the time he just ate soy milk and cereal, plus chocolate bars.

Other confusing things are when people are vegetarian and not healthy. I recall a girl on the bus in high school eating french fries and coke. Someone was criticising her saying, "Aren't you a vegetarian?" She just said, potatoes, oil, water sugar, carmel coloring, caffeine... no meat, therefore vegetarian. Technicially correct in theory. But, it turns out that certain fast food places fried meat in the same oil, and actually used some portion of lard to fry with, so it actually wasn't purely vegetarian after all.

I don't know why fish, seafood, honey and eggs tend to be left off the list for things for vegetarians to avoid. The only thing I can think of is that a lot of people seperate 'higher animals' from 'lower animals' based on how much they think the animal is worth, or how much it can think, feel etc. Because mammals and bird have a face closer to ours, I guess it gets counted closer or higher. Crabs, shrimp? They have eyes on a stalk, and a hard shell, and operate mostly on instinct.

I used to think the something similiar about fish, until I got very close to my goldfish. She was surprisingly attentive to me. I could be projecting, but when I would read in the same room I saw her looking at me. I would give her a little wave, and she would start swimming excitedly. I was so surprised, she actually was watching me from across the room! She also woke me up one morning when I overslept, splashing at the waters surface! Usually about the time I get up. I think she was hungry, but still she had an awareness of me and how to wake me up.

Honey is a vegetarian food, it's just not vegan. I don't like that 'vegetarian' seems to mean 'no meat' rather than 'high fruit and veg'. It completely alters the perception of vegetarianism.

Veghunter,
Well, that depends on whos defining it. Jains for sure exclude honey, and eggs. Although other people might exclude just one or the other. Some wear leather and silk, thinking its only a matter of what you eat. Some take nonviolence to even less tangible areas, like thoughts and speech. Some have no problem technically complying to physical aspects of vegetarianism or veganism, but may not do much for these less tangible aspects.

Yes, I have met people who eat a lot of things unhealthy, or not balanced on a vegetarian diet. Taking protein supplements and vitamins, while eating only bread, peanutbutter and soy products.

Technically, a vegetarian food is one which has no flesh and does not require the slaughtering of an animal to derive. Eggs are not viable chickens, honey is not made of bees, but by them, and milk is taken from a lactating animal without killing it. I am speaking ostensibly, of course. Thus, they are vegetarian, whereas fish or caviar is not, because it is direct animal food, is not. This is why the distinction of veganism was necessitated.

Mislu, I'm not very familiar with Jainism, but from what I've read they also exclude wine and root vegetables. I think their guidelines on what is edible don't limit themselves to vegetarianism.

I agree with Tam's description, but the dictionary includes eggs. I guess that's really the cultural definition that vegetarianism is held by. It still doesn't excuse fish or chicken being served.

I dont think this particular business would go under if they didnt sell the pearl powder (thats a brand new addition, ala their most recent newsletter) or the fish oil. It just sucks....
Its crazy how these places will sell out. Even the Essene Church of Christ that I used to be associated with.....the founder Nazariah and his now Ex wife Pandora ran a health food store in Veneta Oregon, (which has since gone under) and sold fish oil, even though its against the religios beliefs!!! It makes me angry just thinking about it! So sad...

I'd be disappointed in a mislabeling for sure.

Some raw vegan proponents are selling bovine colostrum. And deer antlers. Stuff you really don't need.

Prana, I have seen that with the deer antlers. I have always wondered if they get those antlers in a humane fashion...Seems kind of gruesome for some reason.

Warning: deer antler harvesting, bloody. Don't click below if you are squeamish.

[www.odditycentral.com]

[nimg.sulekha.com]

Veghunter,
Yes, there are variations on what people think is acceptible and considered 'vegetarian'. I agree fish and chicken shouldn't be considered vegetarian, but some people have a different understanding.

In one place I worked, there was a guy who said he was vegetarian, but said he ate Ham on a regular basis. That got my attention, thinking "What the..." he reasoned that one animal was elective, because sometimes people included occationally fish or chicken. That was a really radical redifinition of vegetarian. I guess he liked the sound of the name, or the ideals, but not quite getting it. Agree or disagree, but don't take the name without it meaning something! Please.

one time my uncle and a friend was over and she said she was a vegetarian except she ate fowl, fish and bacon .. my uncle said yer not a vegetarian yer just a fussy eater ! haha

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I did a youtuber about this.

[www.youtube.com]