Whatever their goal is, they have shown that it can be done. We are all different. Someone will grow fruit (me), someone likes herbs and sprouts, others like animal food - fine. But growing your own is the key. I would make it a law - even politicians have to grow something and eat it.

Also, my idea #1 (and I don't mind if someone takes it, no copyright covers it): Make it a law that there CANNOT BE ANY LAWNS WITHOUT FRUIT OR VEGGIES. In just one year, this would improve the health of Americans by at least 5%. They would be working outdoors and eating fresh produce at least once a year. I want to start a party that would have just that one agenda: "grow your own food" - if you want to be considered human.

But, you know, this would require the government to FORCE people to do what's best for them. Moral dilemma, ahoy!

we didn't prohibit smoking. we just taxed the hell out of it and stigmatized. People are still "free" to smoke if they can pay the cost, just not impose second hand smoke on others. Food isn't so easy. Parents make the choice for their kids. and it's during childhood when most of the cancer risk is realized, at least according to Dr. Fuhrman. Doesn't mean that interventions in adulthood don't matter. They do. but starting when people are young is even better.

Paul

They are forcing the health care, aren't they? You HAVE to pay taxes. You have to pay car insurance. And million other examples. Forcing you to plant a tree would not be such an inquisition, would it? If you don't, the penalty would be 100 hrs of helping others with their plants. I would not call that a dictatorship.
But, just like the neighbors try to have a better looking grass, it would be such a great competition - who had more fruit this year ?

I know, I know - the current "democracies" would never, ever, ever (not even then) even think of proposing something like this. This is just my hope, my vision, and I will never give up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2011 03:24AM by rab.

I hate to break it to you rab, but that wouldnt do anything for anyone that wouldn't plant a fruit tree for themselves to begin with... where im living now there are fruit trees everywhere, ive been partially living off them, and people look at me like im an idiot when I ask if I can pick the fruit off their trees, they dont even eat it... what I dnot grab, falls to the ground and rots... even the homeless dont eat it!

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

That is so weird. Start a group, a fruit tree mapping thing where a bunch of you find all the fruit trees in your area and ask the owners every year if you can harvest from them. Donate to the food banks in your area, put together a canning bee where people learn how to can and take home their jars of food, have juicing parties. These things get done all over the place, why not where you are? Generate some publicity and get some funding for it, you could turn this into a great career! Or at least something fun to do that doesn't cost you anything, feeds people and changes minds about a readily available source of food.

Curator, I know. There are trees around here also, that nobody picks the fruit from. I am embarrassed to ask, but it is the sades thing in the world to watch the fruit rot.
But, if it was taught nationally, if fruit had different status, these things could change, I am sure. People will buy and do anything TV tells them.

possibly rab, but you didnt talk about trying to convince people to do this, but in forcing them by law to do it, then penalizing them if they didnt... thats a much different thing...

@coco, that sounds like a pretty amazing idea! I think I will try and talk to local food banks about helping me to set that up, Thinking up stuff and planning are my strong suits,figuring out how to put that plan into action...is definitely not,lol.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Curator, my point is that people are currently being forced to do much worse things than growing fruit. Millions HAVE TO cut grass. Millions of people???? Why? There are potentially so many herbs that they are killing with chemicals or with mowers. Why? There are thousands of laws currently preventing people from growing whatever they want on their property. Why?

My law would enforce something, but something healthy, for a change. Enforcement is a part of legal system, enables you to cross the street and also to have clean air to breath. Why can't we enforce life? Who would vote against such a law, anyway?

Yes, many things have to be enforced, but the difference is - is it for the good or bad? I think that my simple law even little children can understand, and the whole world, all religions, all races, would vote one big YES!!!

uh, nobody is being forced to cut grass, they are choosing to grow it for their enjoyment, or just cause they think it looks nice to other people... also, I think most people would vote against a law forcing people to grow a fruit tree:/

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Well, I HAVE TO CUT GRASS, or I will pay penalty! And so do millions of Americans. Neighbors don't want to see "bad" lawn, as it cuts their real estate prices down.
My first neighbor spends half of his life cutting grass and spraying everything with poison. One winter day, he saw me with my broom, cleaning my rather large driveway (snow was thick but soft) - so he offered to help me with his snow machine. I said: "Thanks, but I hate those machines, you will have a clean driveway and breath bad air" - that was maybe rude, but I don't regret it. I hate snow blowers, lawn mowers, all that junk with passion.

I hate cutting grass, and I will move soon, I hope, so I will not have to do it any more. I always delay it, let the grass grow high, I even leave parts uncut on purpose (by the local creek, I left a whole area uncut, I am growing stuff there now, mulberries etc.). I love dandelions, I pick them and eat them, and I hate cutting grass because that stops them from growing.

I don't agree that anybody normal would vote against a law that makes everyone grow a tree - if that law is explained well. Did I mention I hate cutting grass?

I hope that MILLIONS OF AMERICANS HATE CUTTING GRASS. SO WHY DO THEY HAVE TO DO IT????

Make it a garden, have your own veggies and fruit, and love it! You can have flowers too, if you want, but once when you eat your own produce, you will never stop wanting more.

The revolution starts at home!!!! Garden, not grass!!! We are not cows, or sheep, we do not need grass!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2011 03:57AM by rab.

Hee hee, Rab. I always let the lawn go like crazy. Neighbors snuck over and cut it for us last summer. The guy who owned that place used to have a horse (HUGE lawn at another of his places) but people complained. Then he stabled the horse elsewhere and guess what? His lawn exploded so they Complained About THAT! Sheesh, make up your minds people. He moved.

I love the guy who cuts my lawn--salt of the earth type, you know? But when he retires, I shall hire someone with goats to trim my lawn. Yes, there are such services and yes, my neighbors think I'm weird already. This is my Five Year Plan: do enough things and say enough things to inure my neighbors against my weirdness and then, march on Poland! er, I mean, bring in the goats! Yeah!

NOBODY HAS to cut grass anywhere in the U.S. rab, or even HAVE grass for that matter,unless you purposely move to a neighborhood where that is the rules you agree to, and that is a CHOICE that you get to make, nobody forces you, just as nobody forced you to use a snow blower, you had the choice to refuse... there is no where in the entire united states where it is illegal for you to not just rip up the grass and plant some flowers if you'd like, or just put gravel or cement over it...

Id like to point out rab that the vast majority of U.S. citizens do not even have a yard they could grow a tree IN to begin with, and would all be penalized but such a law, THEN on top of that, Many yards (such as the one im in right now) cannot have trees in them because the utility lines go under them, and tree roots would destroy them.

What you are stating is completely unrealistic and impossible to do fairly, even if the government offered to pay for the trees, maybe if it was ok for somebody to grow a container tree, like a dwarf brown turkey fig, or another dwarf fruit in a pot, and the government payed for it... and what happens to the people who are just bad at caring for plants? I am known for my green thumb, Ive brought plants back from looking like they where dead for almost 2 years... But there are some trees, that even I cant save, they get sick, and they die... if somebodies tree dies, do they get penalized? its just nature sometimes, let alone if the person is bad with plants to begin with...


I am not against people growing things other than grass, I hate lawns, but millions of people have fruit trees in their yards already, and never eat a single piece off of it... it would make no impact what so ever on these people, and its ridiculous to think otherwise, like they will magically change their minds if they are forced legally to grow it... when the guy referred to as Don Quixote is telling you something seems unrealistic and overly idealistic, that is saying something...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

I am officially tired of explaining. Please re-read my notes if you are interested.

your joking right? that was so condescending, Rab, you specifically wanted to make a law forcing people to grow it, you insisted people are legally to grow and cut grass, I believe such a law would be wrong, and there is nobody in the country who is legally forced to grow grass. Re-read your own notes.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Yes, I want to FORCE people to grow fruit. Also, I want to FORCE them to eat fruit. Thanks for defending democracy so bravely, Curator. Otherwise, tyrants like me could prevail...

About grass...millions of Americans who rent or own simply love grass and that is why they grow it. Nobody forces them. They enjoy cutting grass and they like it. My landlord threatened to evict me when I did not cut the grass - but I am sure she is unique. I am sure millions of other landlords totally don't care if their lawns are bare, without grass, but with some peppers that need to be watered.

I just do not know this well enough, and I am sorry for ever posting anything about anything. I am so sorry.

You guys, cut it out.

You can't rent or own a place with grass and not cut it, it is in fact enforcable.
That said, lots of people don't have the luxury of a place with a lawn.
You are both right.

Rab, your landlord threatening you does NOT a law make.

Post all you want, but when you act like a fascist no matter how good your intentions, I WILL call you on it, Forcing people to do anything, especially when the vast majority will be negatively impacted by it is wrong,sure people would be better off growing some fresh fruit and veggies and eating it, but forcing them to do so is ridiculous, it is on the same level of those who want to force us NOT to... if you go far Enough in the opposite direction, you end up in the same place as them.

And coco, that is not true in the U.S. Town charters and the rules of specific communities within various towns are the only ones that ever make rules like that, and they are rules, not technically laws, even though they often call them "Blight laws" they are not technically laws, just rules that you agree to abide by when you move to that area... people dont need to, and they can replace their grass with concrete or gravel if they want in most places unless its a community where you specifically signed paperwork saying you will grow and maintain grass, Ive seen a few like that... but those are rare.

Even the blight "laws" do not force one to grow grass, they just require you to maintain what you grow (anything you grow) and to not pile junk around your property...

I am not a usually an all or nothing person, but sorry, personal freedom is a big thing for me (and thats not anything to do with democracy,lol...not in this country at least) I will NEVER support any law, even if I agree it will have benefits for many if it directly encroaches on the personal rights/freedom of other people to do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone but themselves, its fundamentally wrong to force people to do what YOU believe is best for them, whether it really is or not... Im sure many here would not want the government forcing us all to eat meat cause its "good" for us according to their views...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

The blight laws where I live applied pretty strictly with regard to lawns--if you have stands of weeds growing on your property that you keep neatly mowed, you will be ticketed, as for a legal infraction. Remember, Curator, that you are in California, but here in the fecund grassy states, lawns are preferred by municipalities because habit and because of a false perception of a seemingly infinite water supply. For the purposes of this conversation, it matters not whether requiring residents to have a grass lawn and maintain it is a law or a rule or an ordinance--it's enforceable and binding like a law.

I think it's good if municipalities encourage private citizens to at least plant fruit bearing trees on their properties, but apart from its being a constitutional problem to mandate this, it would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

It would be groovy if they subsidized it somehow or gave tax breaks to ppl growing food instead of lawns. Never happen though.

I saw no similar rules In tennesee, but I admit I am not personally experienced with the laws of every state.

I agree Coco and Tam that govermental support of such endeavors would be pretty awesome, im all for the government supporting healthier lifestyles and ways of living, just not for forcing them on others... im even against the ban of trans fats, although I know many would disagree with me on that... and I understand why they would... Maybe my extremism on personal freedom is do to a reaction to having very little most of my life...

Rab, and coco, although mostly rab... I have to apologize, in the case of Rab I completely disagree with most of what you have posted on the subject, and always will, BUT I did not frame my disagreement in the best way possible, I do still feel that your side was also disrespectful on this (although not yours coco, just rab) But that does not excuse my own lack of control in the statement of my beliefs, so I apologize for the strength of my reaction... theres a lot of stuff I could blame it on right now, but I think that would invalidate my apology to do so, so I will leave it at that,lol. I will be emailing this to you as well, in case you have abandoned this thread.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

You guys are just being passionate, I get it. I'm still going to tell ya to take it outside though .

that woudl be much easier if there wasnt a 5 email limit on the inbox's here,lol

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

There is a chat function you know. At least there used to be... We kind of, um, abused it though... it might have caught fire and burned up completely *U-U*

uh, I never saw a chat function on here,lol... anyways, I prefer such conversations to be within a provable format, as its been my experience that people will say things in chat, then claim later they never said them...both positive and negative.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Under the reply box there is a little thing that says "Home Page" with an arrow. Click the arrow and find chat. Looks like it's still there, don't know it if works though.

uh, there is nothing that says that underneath my reply button that says "home page" do you mean in the emails? or on the message board here.?

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

SCROLL DOWN!

found it, there was a ton of advertisements over it, I was using google chrome that I guess covered it up, cause its not covered in advertisements now that im on firefox.

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Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?