I have been struggling with going raw for some time, now. I have been able to stay raw for the past week with surprising ease, compared to my previous attempts. This morning I gave in and let myself enjoy a cup of coffee, and now I'm scared that having that 1 cup will precipitate a cooked foods relapse. Does.anyone have experience, strength, and hope to share on this topic?

I've given up coffee a couple times over the last 7 years. Once I give it up I usually can go for a couple years, or at least 6 months. It's not that big a deal if you drink a cup of coffee and your are not adding things in it like milk and sugar.

I believe that drinking fresh brewed is better than instant coffee due to the chemicals it takes to make it instant and whole coffee is better than decaf due to same reasons.

Just change your mind set with instead of fear of relapse just say to yourself that you enjoyed the cup of coffee but it doesn't have a hold on you. You are in charge.

Love,
Prism

First off don't be so hard on yourself, if you consume things you shouldn't dont beat yourself up about it like some would like you to do. Your human we all are.

Ill say caffeine is pretty horrible though it burns out your adrenal glands eventually and can cause many health problems.

I still consume decaffeinated organic coffee and teas now and then. It doesn't precipitate binging on Big Macs or anything, which, unlike coffee, is a serious detriment to one's health

I would say coffee is pretty detrimental though to ones health though tam, well long term anyway. Just as any stimulants. Maybe its just because ive came from adrenal fatigue but i look at stimulants as the plague lol.

Thanks for the replies Sometimes it's hard not to be hard on myself when I fall short of my ideal, but I know it's not that big of a deal to have a cup of joe.

I noticed that I didn't reaally enjoy it after being raw.for a week, though. My anxiety level was noticeably higher, right aaway, and my thinking became more obsessive and neurotic. So in a way, because I come from a history of struggling with mental illness, having a cup of coffee is a big deal to me, now that I have the distinction of being totally raw.

I think theere is a direct link between the hyperconsumption of cooked foods and the high instances of mental illness in modern day civilization. But everyone is different and has different tolerance levels.

Anyways, I.m glad that caffeine is out of my system, now.

furfurlights Wrote:
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.... but I know it's not that big of a deal to
> have a cup of joe.
The Catholics have a good term....As strict Raw Foodists, we should look at one cup of coffee, or one potato chip, as a Mortal Sin. It's okay for others who don't know, but we do.....WY
P.S. When the going gets tough, the Tough get going.

That sounds abit orthorexic or eating disorder behavior WY no offense, but were only human beating yourself up for having the odd potato chip as the mortal sin is abit far in my books. Not that i care for either of the above caffeine makes me weird and i dont like chips.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

powerlifer Wrote:
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> ....but were only human
> beating yourself up for having the odd potato chip
> as the mortal sin is abit far in my books.
Yes, I agree. But if we're ever going to achieve anything in this Lifetime, we must be super-strict about our Diets. I call it entering the "No-Compromise Zone". I've been in and out. In is better. The feeling we have about Self is most important. Set up your own Rules, and adhere to them. Be willing to change in an instant if you feel the need.....WY
P.S. And Coffee ain't on the List.

Maybe its just personal experience i have some eating disorder background i believe mild compared to others. But what id do was get very angry, depressed at myself if i strayed from a healthy diet. This stress was horrible sometimes id even purge because i felt so guilty about having a little unhealthy food.

Thankfully im over that now but it wasn't a good mental outlook to have for me anyway.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

powerlifer you talk about coffee giving fatigue and adrenal burnout. But I checked your site the other day and saw you recommend maca powder which surprised me a little....
my experience with maca taken in reasonable quantities was an few days energy burst followed by weeks of extreme fatigue so I finally gave up on it even though my supplier reckoned I'd eventually come OK. I dont know it its so great for the adrenals......

Maca is not a CNS stimulant in anyway like caffeine is, infact its an adaptogenic herb which supports and restores adrenal gland and endocrine function whilst balancing hormones. The reason it gives a mild energy boost is through its supportive and adaptogenic properties on the adrenal glands.

This is the same for all adaptogenic herbs which are adrenal gland friendly and energy enhancing friendly minus a few such as korean ginseng which actually is a mild stimulant aswell as an adaptogen. Rhodiola rosea is another which is a mild stimulant. But the rest of the adaptogens herbs are not such as maca root, suma root, jiaogulan, ashwagandha, chinese licorice, siberian ginseng, schizandra berry, reishi mushroom etc.

What are you saying is reasonable quantities i see people taking tablespoons this is not the correct dose for these herbs- half to 1 teaspoon up to 3 times daily suffices. Its no wonder some have adverse reactions when using herbs because they use them at improper doses ive watched quite a few youtube raw videos recently with people adding tablespoons upon tablespoons of maca to smoothies and recipes. Its no wonder some have side effects at those doses.

Its also the possibility you could have been allergic, a small portion of people are with herbs, the energy boost could have been from the epinephrine released to counter the allergen and in turn fatigue. End of the day everyone reacts different to herbs also but again i must state maca is an adrenal gland restorer and not a CNS stimulant in anyway.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 01:19PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
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> ..... But what id do was get very angry,
> depressed at myself if i strayed from a healthy
> diet.
That's okay. I wish I could be hard on myself like that. Of course the Goal is to be elated about oneself. The ancient Masters may find Nirvana (a state of mind) by meditation, but I believe Diet, and the powerful feeling one gets from that, to be the Key. I mean, how do you feel in a large room full of Omnivores? Don't you tend to rise above the crowd? The Ultimate Goal is to rise above any crowd. Buddha had it wrong. The 'middle way' has no middle. You have to be a fanatic in order to achieve anything in this Life......WY
P.S. Become the person you want to be (I'm talking to myself, but I'm throwing this out for everyone).

Buddha had it wrong? Wow.

Sometimes I had a small cup of coffee when we were out somewhere, very rarely and I always regretted it. It makes my heart beat like a hummingbird in my chest and I get shaky and speedy, it's an most unpleasant feeling. I was never much of a caffeine drinker though. I just can't see how something like that is healthy at all.

>The Ultimate Goal is to rise above any crowd.???? that sounds strange

If we are talking about buddha the ultimate goal is not to rise above any crowd. It is enlightenment which leads to a feeling oneness and not feeling ourselves above people. That is anyway my opinion. You may get a healthy joyful feeling from great diet but that is not Nirvana.....

about the maca I dont think I took it in tabelspoons but it was a while ago so I dont remember too well - I remember more the deblitating fatigue. Of course different herbs react differently with different people and no doubt maca does wonders for some peopl - I took it for menstrual issues and I wish it had worked for me..... but I just feel concern sometimes about people advocating throwing maca and suchlike into shakes as an energy boost because it obviously does have powderful effects...

I also gave up coffe because it is too stimulating for me and not in a nice way so after some months of drinking it and then regretting it after I decided to just avoid it although i love the taste....I tend to make masala chai concoctions which I find a nice warming tasty satisfying drink - can use rooibosch tea as the base and whatever milk you like best (soy rice etc.) with ginger, black pepper, cinnamon stick, cloves, cardamom etc... - I know that is not raw but i crave hot drinks sometimes...

some types of milk can render the antioxidants useless or interfere with there effects so i tend to not use them. Rooibos is great though caffeine free also, i mix it with a chai also at times. Nothing wrong with it not being raw in my opinion, healthy, good source of antioxidants so i see why not.

Maca is a decent herb and in most cases it wont cause any problems if used in the proper dosages like i say. Those who i have read who have had problems often use crazy doses or show signs of being allergic to it. It certainly wont burn out your adrenal glands like i say because it isnt a central nervous stimulant plus it restores adequate adrenal gland function. But jiaogulan is better it has around 8-10 times more sterol saponins.

I used to be seriously addicted to coffee, to the point where I would spend the day vomiting if I attempted to cut it out cold turkey. Eventually I managed to give it up for good, but I would still have decaf every once in a while. That turned out to be problematic, because I would occasionally be served a regular coffee when I ordered decaf, and would feel sick the next day. So, the next step was to give up all forms of coffee for good, which I did a few months ago.

After that, I noticed that I would still occasionally get the headaches, so I decided I should cut out all sources of caffeine for good. I decided to cut out soda and chocolate about a week ago. I feel that it was a good first step towards becoming raw vegan again. With the addictive substances out of the way, I feel like I'm having a much easier time adjusting as I remove more junk from my diet. I've currently been vegan for a few days, and I feel quite comfortable with it so far. Of course going completely raw is much more challenging, but I feel like I now have a better fallback point than pure SAD.

So my advice would be, if you find coffee to be an addiction, to resolve to cut it out of your life for good. You could start with smaller sizes, then decaf, then gradually cut out cream and sugar, and so on. I always found that coffee was one of the major draws that pulled me back into SAD eating from a raw diet. Giving into the coffee made me lose confidence in my diet and my resolve, and then I would take the attitude that I may as well eat whatever I want. Plus, the stimulation from the flavor would make me ravenous, eager to consume whatever was available.

I also agree with powerlifer that you should try not to be hard on yourself if you happen to give into cooked food cravings once in a while. If you employ some damage control: keep it vegan, minimally processed, lightly cooked, etc... it might be rather healthy, and you can easily continue eating a high raw diet on your way to 100% if you wish.

powerlifer Wrote:
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> I would say coffee is pretty detrimental though to
> ones health though tam, well long term anyway.
> Just as any stimulants. Maybe its just because ive
> came from adrenal fatigue but i look at stimulants
> as the plague lol.


Hey Powerlifter.

I broke my coffee addiction a while back, but still have small amount of caffeine from mate tea. I use 2-3 bags per day, which is what I used to break my coffee addiction. Each bag has 20 mgs of caffeine. Do you suppose this amount is enough to be detrimental the adrenals?

My goal is to be 100% caffeine free one day.

Thanks!

Hey pippin07, health of the adrenal glands have to be looked at overall, if you have alot of stress in your life, poor diet etc then the use of stimulants can stress the function of the adrenal glands even more.

There are some who consume high amounts of caffeine daily and have no signs of adrenal insufficiency. Same goes for those who consume strong stimulant recreational drugs, i guess what im saying its about the overall taxation on the adrenal glands so its hard to say if X amount is going to cause you an issue.

You could even try switching to white teas which contain even smaller amounts of caffeine to virtually none. There are other teas also such as jiaogulan which are non stimulants, adrenal gland restorers and give a mild energy boost. Nothing to the degree of mate or coffee though.

20 mg.X 3 = 60 mg.= a half cup of coffee. Some people are more sensitive to caffeine than others. I don't think I have ever had mate before. What kinds of benefits does the plant offer? I guess it depends on the individual but like sugar, caffeine can really wreak havoc on blood sugar levels and I think it makes people more likely to crave sugary and refined foods.

For years I had a double espresso addiction, and I'm not remotely exaggerating to say that it completely destroyed my life. It took about two years plus of "trying to quit" before I finally did, and it was a heroin-withdrawal type scenario where I basically locked myself in a room in my sister's house and meditated and did all sorts of anti-addiction things. The only silver lining is that it was out of that meditation that I eventually came to raw foods, from opening my third eye and pledging a new way. But I'm still traumatized from the whole thing. While on coffee my diet was the absolute worst it's ever been in my life- like ice cream and pizza.

Caffeine- especially coffee, but all caffeine- is not just harmful physically, it's an extremely powerful drug that shuts down our third eye and turns us into little capitalist robots, in my opinion and experience. Just because a drug is socially acceptable and basically sanctioned by this society does not make it remotely safe. It's more like the opposite.

I think if we want to heal holistically then quitting caffeine has to be a priority. Do whatever it takes. Try acupuncture. Cannabis? Fr**in hypnosis if you need it- something- but get off that stuff! My sister is in acupuncture school, and the number one thing that the school stresses to students as far as their own self-care and being in a personal place to heal others is to not drink coffee.

Mate is all right... but I think all caffeine should be avoided. There are legal herbal "adaptogens" with quasi-stimulant properties such as ginseng and gotu kola that are worth trying. Yeah, or- get a bottle of some kind of New Chapter herbs- like the "Stress Advantage" one, and every time you thinking about doing the coffee drug, take the healing herbs instead. You'll feel so good in two weeks, and your diet will naturally fall into place.

omega-3....Very informative!! Thanks for sharing.....WY

I am still highly addicted to coffee, but am working on it:-O When I shifted over to this raw foods deal I found that even early in the day coffeee keeps me up at night. Not sure why drinking a cup o joe would lead to eating cooked foods, but sympathize with you when it comes to obsessing about every little thing you eat and drink. It's hard to make this just a way of life and not an obsession that is with you every minute. Food and eating is supposed to be for our health, fuel and enjoyment, not something that brings us stress and worry and distraction. Its hard to keep it in its place. I would think that stimulants only add to anxieties.

februarygirl

I watched my mom break a severe caffeine addiction, migraines, throwing up, all day distress. It was scary enough to turn me off coffee for life. Really, she suffered so much. That a little cup of burned bean water could lay her low like that, wow. Powerful drug that java. Powerful, nothing to take too lightly. Imagine what it was doing inside her body to affect her like that?

Agh! How can burned bean water taste so good??????!!

februarygirl

How can it taste so good? I think it's the smell that gets people. You really like the taste, or it's just an association? And then we have beer- how people can get that drug down their throats is beyond me (I've never had one in my life).

At the very, very least one could switch to decaff, though decaff still has a fair amount of caffeine. I think the best way to quit coffee is to take a few days off and really take care of yourself. Go to a relatives' or friends' house, if possible? I think cold turkey is best; however, if you're getting excruciating headaches- I've been there- switching to white or green tea will ease those headaches substantially for a couple weeks or however long you need.

Coffee is a western cultural phenomenon. It keeps us working long hours unquestioningly... it's very entrapping, both physically and spiritually.

"America runs on Dunkin"

Cold turkey doesnt always work and in many cases of addiction can be lethal. Tapering or weaning off is a better method in most cases, then once the major problems that could have happened are gone, then go cold turkey.

Well, I was kind of joking. Yes, I love coffee, that first cup in the morning is in my opinion awesome, then after that not so much. I have reflected on the fact that coffee really is bitter and caustic tasting, leaves bad breathe, jitters and an upset tummy. Its pretty crazy that we have aquired such a taste for it. Pretty darn crazy! Weaning is my preferred method of detox, unless I could go off to the mountains and live in a dark cave for a couple months with no light or noise!

februarygirl

One week after my last cup of coffee, I began to cough up phlegm, and this continued for a few weeks. So, regardless of what the experts say about coffee, that one cup a day is ok, I know that it isn't good.