powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the thread was derailed come on, it wasn't
> about exercise.
>
> But back to the point 100 isn't very impressive,
> anyone with abit of will could work up to that
> pointless feat. I don't know why they'd want to
> because like i say its pointless over 12-15 reps
> anyway. Again there is nothing impressive about
> 10k pushups sure its cool but its pointless from a
> fitness/athletic aspect. I wasnt suggesting you
> needed to be schooled anyway but if you are
> familiar with this sort of knowledge you'd surely
> agree that these hundreds of repetitions is
> pointless?
>
I am also a fitness instructor, and I would agree. The only case I can think where it would make sense to have that level of localized muscle endurance (triceps and delts)would be a boxer who must throw hundreds of consecutive punches.

Nevertheless this thread is about fruit being healthy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2011 07:39PM by WorkoutMan.

WorkoutMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well the thread was derailed come on, it wasn't
> > about exercise.
> >
> > But back to the point 100 isn't very
> impressive,
> > anyone with abit of will could work up to that
> > pointless feat. I don't know why they'd want to
> > because like i say its pointless over 12-15
> reps
> > anyway. Again there is nothing impressive about
> > 10k pushups sure its cool but its pointless from
> a
> > fitness/athletic aspect. I wasnt suggesting you
> > needed to be schooled anyway but if you are
> > familiar with this sort of knowledge you'd
> surely
> > agree that these hundreds of repetitions is
> > pointless?
> >
> I am also a fitness instructor, and I would agree.
> The only case I can think where it would make
> sense to have that level of localized muscle
> endurance (triceps and delts)would be a boxer who
> must throw hundreds of consecutive punches.
>
> Nevertheless this thread is about fruit being
> healthy

Exactly about the thread and again sorry it has been derailed to such an extent, i know some get annoyed by it on other forums. I cant see why any health authority would suggest fruit being bad when along with vegetables are the healthiest foods we have access too crazy really.

Again like i say endurance should be trained sport specifically, there is no cross over with that many pushups to being in the ring. In this case heavy bag/punch bag, sparring, shadow boxing is where you would pick up the relevant endurance. I mean boxing is primarily an anaerobic sport.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Ok, so I was just reminded today about the tremendous benefits and healing that one can gain by eating a raw food diet. Dr. Douglas Graham is who reminded me. I ran across one of his YouTube videos when looking for info on Yeast Overgrowth.
I am not a raw food person. Definitely have the whole SAD diet going on, but am interested (and scared, if I'm being honest) in checking into this whole RAW thing more.
I have depression, hypothyroidism, chronic migraines and, yes, all of the horrid symptoms that go with them both. All are controlled by meds., which I hate with all of my being. I hate medication. Just hate it and want off it all. I get hopeless sometimes about change because of adverse reactions when having tried more healthy approaches in times past.
Forgive my ignorance, but if I have yeast overgrowth, wouldn't it be a bad thing to eat mostly fruit? I've read that yeast feeds and thrives on sugar and doesn't care about the difference between refined or fruit.
Part of me is scared to death of the idea of raw food eating, because of all of the severe changes it would take. The other part of my wonders if I really ought to allow my heart to believe in yet another thing.
How does someone like me who is so sick and unhealthy and on meds even begin such a diet as this??
The other really REALLY overwhelming thing is that we live in just a small farming community and are far away from any large cities. There is nowhere even close that would have what is needed to maintain such a diet.
I need encouragement. Why so much fear?? I am deeply afraid of yet another thing that doesn't work after soooo many years of illness and trying different approaches.
I do have a Vita-Mix and believe it or not, USED to have a Green Star juice machine. Now only have a little Juiceman Jr.
HELP! I am very timid, but yet open to hearing what you all have to say. Feel free to be blunt with me. I like things given to me straight. Straight, not mean.

Thanks to all,
Mindy

i think dr graham says, it's the fat and not the fruit that is the problem with candida and other similar issues.

you could get his book which would help

>How does someone like me who is so sick and unhealthy and on meds even begin such a diet as this??

many were as sick as you but healed themselves.
some slowly and some quickly. in your case probably slowly would be better
with respect to meds.


no doubt that it's worth it.

*** it's the best thing many of us have ever done ***


>The other really REALLY overwhelming thing is that we live in just a small farming community and are far away from any large cities. There is nowhere even close that would have what is needed to maintain such a diet.

think about positive ways to make it work.

you don't need much, some a few fruits and veggies that taste good to you, and it will change over seasons for variety.

or you can mail order some things
i've gotten a lot of dates and cherimoya and white sapote
this season by mail order.

Ive seen dr grahams candida videos and i would avoid his advice when it comes to candida, we did a thread on this one(do a search it was quite good), so many inaccuracies such as him saying we all have candida in the blood(which is a serious systemic and potentially life threatening disorder usually only seen in severely immuno-compromised individuals with aids etc) and that high blood sugar feeds it an so on.

Work on restoring your gut flora with fermented foods and raising stomach acid.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2011 09:15AM by powerlifer.

Mindy, i forgot to say do you know for sure you have candida overgrowth, its just that many like myself got sucked into the bogus sites which attribute every ailment in the world to candida. Yeast/bacterial overgrowths are pretty easy to overcome, if after a month or two you aren't getting well with fermented foods, prebiotics and raising stomach acid then its likely that candida isn't the problem.

I went round in circles for around 7+ years thinking i had candida when i actually had problems with weak adrenal glands, secondary hypothyroidism because of this and other problems such as heavy metal toxicity.

You could start by increasing the amount of raw food in your diet such as greens. Depending on the cause of your hypothyroidism, seaweeds can be beneficial due to the iodine content and supporting the adrenal glands.

[www.amlaberry.co.uk]

Tamukha Wrote:

> WorkoutMan,
>
> I am very impressed by the rigor with which you
> make your argument--footnotes! I do well on high
> fruit, but I do believe that there may be some
> credence to the idea that there may be
> subcategories of humans that manifest as dietary
> needs; thus, there are people who cannot handle
> fruit and who thrive on calories from fat. But I
> think they are probably a minority of individuals.
> Thanks for reminding us of Dr. Morse's work--I'd
> forgotten, but am going to take another look at it
> when I have the chance. Great effort at this
> thread!

In april actually, I'll be meeting Dr. Morse and attending his "school of detoxification and tissue regeneration" in Florida. Im super excited and I hope I get to ask him a few questions. It will be a great learning experience.

>so many inaccuracies such as him saying we all have candida in the blood(which is a serious systemic and potentially life threatening disorder usually only seen in severely immuno-compromised individuals with aids etc) and that high blood sugar feeds it an so on.


from a non- dr graham website:


Every person lives in a virtual sea of microorganisms, (bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc.). These microbes can reside in the throat, mouth, nose, intestinal tract, almost anywhere; they are as much a part of our bodies as the food we eat. Usually, these microorganisms do not cause illness, unless our resistance becomes lowered.

Candida albicans is a yeast that lives in the mouth, throat, intestines and genitourinary tract of most humans and is usually considered to be a normal part of the bowel flora (the organisms that coexist with us in our lower digestive tract). It is actually a member of a broader classification of organisms known as fungi.

Candida enters newborn infants during or shortly after birth.

By six months of age, 90% of all babies test positive for candida .

And by adulthood, virtually all humans play host to Candida albicans and are thus engaged in a life-long relationship.

notice that doesnt say it enters their blood? yeah, cause candida in the blood can kill you...as it almost did my mother a little over 3 months ago.

Yes this is correct but they dont reside naturally in the bloodstream, not that you mentioned that anyway but seemed to be trying defend the viewpoint. But this is Dougs theory which just isn't correct. Candida in the blood isn't the form that so many think they have problems with. Systemic candida is a potentially life threatening disorder and usually only occurs in severely immunocompromised individuals i.e HIV, cancer. It is not normal to have candida or other fungi in the bloodstream and like is say, Doug refers that we all naturally have candida in the bloodstream and that high blood sugar feeds it, aswell as he calls candida a "backup system" and other various crazy theory's.

Candida overgrowth in the GI tract can be quite common especially after anti-biotic use as they kill off the gut flora which compete for space, maintain stomach acidity and secrete acids and other anti-fungal/bacterial compounds to keep candida in its harmless yeast form rather than hyphal fungal form which can penetrate and damage tissues.

But yeah we've been through this many times on here, theres many good threads via the search.

EDIT: That site you pasted is just as bad lol, play host, candida is a naturally occurring part of the body, we all have it. Its just that in its normal yeast form which is staved off by acidity it causes us no problems and is actually part of a healthy gut ecology. But when the terrain is altered and alkalinity is promoted this is where candida morphs into its hyphal fungal form and causes issue.

[www.amlaberry.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2011 01:32PM by powerlifer.

> Forgive my ignorance, but if I have yeast
> overgrowth, wouldn't it be a bad thing to eat
> mostly fruit? I've read that yeast feeds and
> thrives on sugar and doesn't care about the
> difference between refined or fruit.

We will forgive your ignorance Mindy, it is a tremendous myth that it would be a bad thing to eat fruit. Yes the yeast overgrowth does feed on excess carbohydrate. But it would be unwise to starve your body of simple sugars, especially considering your health conditions. If you do not have prolonged elevated blood sugar, then there will not be excess carbohydrates.

Yeast, mold and fugus are cleaners of the world. They will run in fear of any acidy, astringent type fruits such as lemons, grapes, oranges, apples etc. These parasites feed on excesses and congestion within the body. The astringent fruits will help to clean this congestion out of your body. Cleaning of the lymphatic system is paramount in your case. Dairy and starches are the main causes of congestion in the body. This return to health will not happen overnight for you, but a lower fat diet of fruits, veg and herbs (with modest fats) is your best bet at a sustainable recovery.

"How does someone like me who is so sick and unhealthy and on meds even begin such a diet as this?? "

The first step is to drop all dairy foods. The next step is to increase the proportion of vegetables in all of your meals. Since you have a vitamix, the best way to start the day would be a fruit/green smoothy with added herbs. To support your glands, kill off the yeast, decrease congestion and improve bowel function. A mix of these powdered herbs would be a good start:
black walnut hull
slippery elm
kelp
maca
saw palmetto berries
licorice
siberian gensing

If your serious about getting healthy, it will take alot of work, but its always worth it. When it gets more painfull to stay the same, than to change, we will change. Theres nothing to fear except change. Just go slow, this method works, it just takes alot of diligence. If you need more help, find a good health guide like Dr. Morse, theres so much more that may need to be considered, that myself or powerlifer, can't do through a computer.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2011 01:50PM by WorkoutMan.

Theres always the notion that there's more than one problem going on also. Its these blooming candida, acid/alkaline sites that make it seem like every health problem you have is because of the above that many become fixated for decades plus of there lives on a problem that isn't even there.

The same goes for those who try to live on a low sugar diet to beat candida, this often can help the symptoms temporarily as the candida wont have as much food to feed on but long term it doesn't work. Same goes with rotating strong anti-fungals which often also have anti-bacterial properties so you go in an endless loop of killing off some of the fungal candida but also kill off your good flora which is what you want to be restoring if you want to beat candida overgrowth.

[www.amlaberry.co.uk]

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The same goes for those who try to live on a low
> sugar diet to beat candida, this often can help
> the symptoms temporarily as the candida wont have
> as much food to feed on but long term it doesn't
> work. Same goes with rotating strong anti-fungals
> which often also have anti-bacterial properties so
> you go in an endless loop of killing off some of
> the fungal candida but also kill off your good
> flora which is what you want to be restoring if
> you want to beat candida overgrowth.
>
Yes, I agree, that's why this whole thread was created. The basic reason Im in opposition to Cousins' and Clement's, recomendations to avoid sugars.

pl,

it's very easy to be here and trash someone like dr graham.
why don't you go on his forum and have a discussion and show him how wrong he is?
i'm guessing you won't.

Wow, I love hearing all that you all have to say. Fascinating. So, Workout Man, you recommended starting off with dropping dairy and adding a smoothie. You also mentioned these herbs. Would I add them TO the smoothie? If so, how much of each. I would be clueless as to how to do this. Do you have a good recipe of what and how much to put in smoothies? Also, do I use this smoothie as a complete meal? If so, how long should I wait before I eat again?

black walnut hull
slippery elm
kelp
maca
saw palmetto berries
licorice
siberian gensing

Are these herbs, by the way, to help kill candida or something else?

Thank you so much for being so patient with me.

Mindy

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pl,
>
> it's very easy to be here and trash someone like
> dr graham.
> why don't you go on his forum and have a
> discussion and show him how wrong he is?
> i'm guessing you won't.

I have done in the past and he ignored the few questions i asked such as fatty acids/fats being the main fuel source for endurance athletes. Who says im trashing him anyway im not, im just saying what he says on candida isn't correct.

I haven't seen anyone able to defend that video because it not correct, im sorry if that hurts you. All i did was point out the inaccuracies if your going to make videos or be considered a guru you have to be able to put up with that.

What about your disagreement with Cousen's advice etc are you trashing them?, why don't you go and talk with them?. You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder with me which others have observed also.

The poster brought up his video, what did you want me to do just sit back and let incorrect advice go by?



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2011 05:47PM by powerlifer.

More derailing, quel suprise.

Mindy, I wouldn't add those things to a smoothie, it's not going to taste so great if you do. Take them in powder or capsule form, when you go to the health food store to purchase them there will most likely be someone there to advise you as to how to take things, what sort is best for what you're after, if there is a pre-blended product available.
Some of those listed are good for adrenals, some for parasite cleansing, some nutritional support.

As Powerlifer will undoubtedly tell you though, purchasing loose powder is the most economical. Many herbs etc work best if you actually taste them as well, such as bitters. I wouldn't want to drink a whole glass full of them but taking them with a bit of water is a quick way to get them down. Some will just taste too terrible, take those in caps.

Whatever is in the smoothie will also block absorption of many compounds/nutrients in the herbs. Which is why its best to take 25-30 minutes before food/meals.

mindy66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, I love hearing all that you all have to say.
> Fascinating. So, Workout Man, you recommended
> starting off with dropping dairy and adding a
> smoothie. You also mentioned these herbs. Would I
> add them TO the smoothie? If so, how much of each.
> I would be clueless as to how to do this. Do you
> have a good recipe of what and how much to put in
> smoothies? Also, do I use this smoothie as a
> complete meal? If so, how long should I wait
> before I eat again?
>
> black walnut hull
> slippery elm
> kelp
> maca
> saw palmetto berries
> licorice
> siberian gensing
>
> Are these herbs, by the way, to help kill candida
> or something else?
>
> Thank you so much for being so patient with me.
>
> Mindy


Hi Mindy
You can add the powdered herbs to smoothies if you want. We always add a spoonful of herbs to our smoothies with great results. I would still be lying in bed if it wasn't for herbs. Our smoothies still taste good too. Perhaps they will be more absorbed if you take them alone. Mix up a container of the powdered herbs and add a teaspoonful to a smoothy.

Yes, use the smoothie as breakfast. When to eat this is simple; once you feel the pain of hunger eat the smoothy. Don't eat again untill you feel the pain of hunger again. The smoothie can be any combination fruits, fruit juice and greens. One recipe that always tastes good is bananas, blueberries and grapejuice. You can add green leaves like spinach and lettuce to any smoothy. Citrus and bananas usually dont mix well. You can also blend up apples with fruit juice to make apple sauce and add the herbs to this.

These are some of the benifits of these herbs, (Id list more but can't find my book right now lol)
Black walnut hull: anti-parasitic, helps thyroid, improve bowel function
slipery elm: improve bowel function
kelp: glandular support
maca: adrenal support
saw palmetto berries: thyroid and adrenal support
licorice: adrenal support, anti-parasitic, improve bowel function
siberian ginseng: glandular support

So, regarding the herbs, would I mix them all together in equal parts? Also, did you say that I should take these daily? If so, how long for?

Thanks again,
Mindy

Forgot to ask...do you guys make your own probiotics? Is Kefir considered a natural probiotic? I've never had or made it, but have heard of it. Just know I am probably in need of making this a regular part of my diet as well.

It IS all so overwhelming to me, but I am thinking seriously about getting started. I can find Organic Spinach and lettuce, but don't know where I can get organic fruit. I think I will consider looking into mail order.

Last question that I have long wondered about. Do you know of anyone who has been completely healed of Hypothyroidism. I have been told over and again that once you have it, you will have to be on meds for life and that there is no such thing as being healed. I've never known of anyone who has gone off of their meds and had their thyroid begin functioning on it's own again. Would LOVE to hear a true blue healing story if there is any such thing.

Thanks again all,
Mindy

Personally they wouldn't be mixed in equal parts, and id also drop the slippery elm and the black walnut hull from that mixture.

Yes making your own probiotics via fermented foods such as water kefir, cultured veggies is not only the cheapest way but most effective.

Thats incorrect about hypothyroidism, unless your thyroid issue is auto-immune then hypothyoidism is heal-able. It just takes abit of playing about to see what is causing it there are many causes of low thyroid such as adrenal gland issues, low iodine, low selenium, low tyrosine etc.

[www.amlaberry.co.uk]

Lol i see someone has posted about the candida thing on Dougs forum cant think who that would have been after the several PM's yesterday.

Will be interested in hearing the responses though, especially as someone posted a quote from the book which says -

"Candida is a form of yeast, an organism that naturally occurs in human blood. it is supposed to be there." - Nope it is not a natural part of human blood, if you have candida in your blood seek serious medical attention.

"The candida microbe in our blood is actually a life--saving organism, one that we do not ever want to eradicate. It functions as another backup system -- a safety valve that helps to bring the blood-sugar level back down to normal in the even that the pancreas and the adrenals fail at doing so." - Candida plays no role in the regulation of blood sugar, he is correct that the adrenal glands do aswell as various other hormones but candida and other microbes do not play any role.

EDIT: I forgot to say candida in the blood is known as Candidemia, a blood infection of candida species, which again like i say only happens in those with severely immuno compromised invidiuals i.e aids, cancer and sometimes with patients during surgery.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2011 10:13AM by powerlifer.

Powerlifer,

How do I know for sure if my Hypo is auto-immune?? I also have periodic eczema. So, are you saying that Auto-immune diseases cannot be healed? Just curious.

Thank you for your feedback, indeed!

About your other post, Candida IS normal and healthy to have in your body if at balanced levels, right?, just not in bloodstream?? You've got me curious about this now.

Thanks so much,
M

mindy,

For most people, when they get a chronic disease, whether its psoriasis, eczema, hypothyroid, etc, the reason this disease hangs on for the rest of one's life is because the person with the disease is unwilling to make the lifestyle changes necessary to heal the disease. This means looking at all forms of toxins in one's life: the standard western diet, the recreational and pharmaceutical drugs, the household toxins, the water that is consumed, all sources of toxin - these need to be addressed, hopefully by eliminating them from the lifestyle. As long as one is unwilling to remove these sources of toxins, odds are there will be no complete healing of any chronic disease.

Taking stuff doesn't help if you don't remove the source of the disease.

Got it. Thanks!!

We're out of money until next paycheck so tried to do the best I could this morning with what I had. Yukky!

In Vita Mix, I put huge handful of organic spinach, 1 granny apple, sm handful blueberries and 1 T or so of raw honey and 1 C. filtered water.

The taste is fine, but the apple sludged it up so much that I was drinking pure pulp. It got thicker as it sat. Ended up having to strain it through a sieve and am drinking it right now.

My normal breakfast would have been 3 eggs, so though this is not all organic, etc., it is a better start I'd say.

Thanks to all for your encouragement. I'll be back asking lots of questions, I'm sure.

Mindy

Don't listen for a second to anyone who says autoimmune diseases cannot be healed! I agree strongly with Prana- usually they are unhealed because the person isn't willing to heal them.

I once suffered with 90% coverage (only parts of my face and neck were spared) psoriasis. It was horrible... people stared at me on the streets. I was told my doctors that I'd have it the rest of my life, that psoriasis wasn't curable. They prescribed me a ton of steroids and $200 skin cream. I ended up going to a chinese healer who gave me a 10$ bottle of herbs and within a few days my skin was healing (this after a year of suffering). The flare went down but I still had flares off and on. After changing my diet (gluten/grain free) and doing some liver cleanses my psoriasis flares stopped. Now that I eliminated a lot of other bad foods from my diet (soy, dairy, etc), my skin is glowing and soft. I get told all the time that my skin feels like a newborn baby and I have better skin tone than most people when I used to have the worst skin of anyone I know.

Everything can be healed.

Thank you. I am beginning to believe that more and more.

Thank you so much!
Mindy

Clement doesn't exactly say fruit is unhealthy, or at least that's not what he means. When he's working with people that have one foot in the grave, he doesn't give them any fruit/sugar.

Also, he says for a healthy, moderately active person, 10%-15% of your diet can be from fruit. Going by your name of, "WorkoutMan", I assume you workout heavily. Obviously if you're lifting pretty well, you can burn copious amounts of fruit/sugar, which Clement says is what he would do for an athlete.

A lot of what you disagree with is just your poor reading comprehension, and taking things out of context.

So, don't mislead your average American (who's daily exercise routine is looking for the remote) into thinking they can eat a mountain of fruit and be as healthy as you or I.

Also, check out "Sugar - The Bitter Truth".

nemwanusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clement doesn't exactly say fruit is unhealthy, or
> at least that's not what he means. When he's
> working with people that have one foot in the
> grave, he doesn't give them any fruit/sugar.
>
> Also, he says for a healthy, moderately active
> person, 10%-15% of your diet can be from fruit.
> Going by your name of, "WorkoutMan", I assume you
> workout heavily. Obviously if you're lifting
> pretty well, you can burn copious amounts of
> fruit/sugar, which Clement says is what he would
> do for an athlete.
>
> A lot of what you disagree with is just your poor
> reading comprehension, and taking things out of
> context.
>
> So, don't mislead your average American (who's
> daily exercise routine is looking for the remote)
> into thinking they can eat a mountain of fruit and
> be as healthy as you or I.
>
> Also, check out "Sugar - The Bitter Truth".

This is preposterous, he does exactly say that fruit is not a health food. Not giving a sick person fruit, in some cases is dangerous. I can read just fine, the only purpose of this thread was to defend fruit as a health food. Some people read some of these things by the fruit phobic people. And they think fruit is the devil, and they will keel over, shrivel up and die if they eat it. Which is just bullshit.