You make a lot of assumption about what others can do based solely on what YOU can do and that is a mistake. I can NOT eat carrots etc until I am full, I get a definite taste change that indicates that I have had enough of them BEFORE I am even partially full. I have never been able to make a meal of any one fruit or veg. Maybe 2 of them but never one.

The thing that you are avoiding is that not everyone else is exactly like YOU, nor do we have to be to validate YOUR choices for YOURSELF. So give it a rest already, you can't brow beat people into believing what you believe if they know that it doesn't work for them. You aren't right, you're only right for YOU. Stop trying to push it on others.

Well i don't, i eat spicy or spiced/seasoned foods and eat till im full no problem. What about the non spicy/hot herbs/spices such as sage like i said my last post, what is now wrong with them? Sage has a wide range of health benefits and nutrition.

So im meant to go on your instinct?, well my natural instinct tells me that herbs and spices are good for you, the research i have done for the past 10 years backs up my instinct, i have witnessed first hand the rejuvenating potential of the above whilst at a very ill time 7+ years.

My natural instinct and commonsense also tells me, that doesn't mean going out and downing a bottle of black pepper, turmeric or any other spice.

The question your avoiding and answer is that these spices have nutritional value so they are considered a food. Just because your logic of mono eating suggests otherwise will not detract that a spice can nourish and heal the body.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 07:34PM by powerlifer.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The QUESTION you are all avoiding is this:
>
> Why do you stop eating black pepper or any pepper
> when you are not full yet?
> Because the body does not want it, it is not a
> food.

"Food is any substance [1] that is consumed to provide nutritional support for the body" [en.wikipedia.org]

"Pepper is known to cause sneezing. Some sources say that piperine, a substance present in black pepper, irritates the nostrils, causing the sneezing;[31] Few, if any, controlled studies have been carried out to answer the question. It has been shown that piperine can dramatically increase absorption of selenium, vitamin B, beta-carotene and curcumin as well as other nutrients.[32]"

[en.wikipedia.org]

by that definition, pepper is a food as it clearly provides nutritional support for the body. Your mistake was assuming that food has to sate you. Lots of foods won't fill you or sate you. But they are still foods.

Paul




> You can continue to eat mangoes or tomotoes until
> you are full as long as there are more of them.
>
> If you are on raw foods and like spicy foods then
> you have miles to go still but that is your choice
> but do not call pepper a food. It burns.

Well, this is why I'm giving natural hygience a try. I love fruit, I'm single, and I'm lousy in the kitchen (not the bed). I figure I can just gorge on fruit until some lass who loves to prepare a variety of raw foods comes along to take pity on me and saves me from my fate...

Natural hygiene is the way to go. You should pray the cooking one does come your way. Nobody can improve on a ripe mango, no amount of pepper or spices will improve it.
Just surprised that coco cannot get full on carrots, what else is there and better to eat? Carrot is king.
The problem is that when sense of taste has been altered thru cooking and spices, it is difficult to go back to the natural state where the food and our senses contol the appetite. We tend to overeat and stop when the mouth is burning too much.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 09:19PM by RawPracticalist.

How long have you been raw, may I ask? To be such an expert on how things "should" work for everyone without exception...

Either way with how much various spices and herbs along with a vegan diet got me back to health i wont be giving them up anytime soon if i was to need them again therapeutically. I have seen so many people with various diseases heal with the above also as well as good hard research to back them up.

Nature didn't provide us laptops and internet to be sitting on here but all of us engage in that, which is why i hate this whole it didn't happen in nature debate. What does your natural instincts say about sitting debating on the world wide web out of interest?

But nature did give us various plants, fruits, vegetables, nuts/seeds, herbs and in turn spices for healing so that is good enough for me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2011 09:36PM by powerlifer.

hmmmm...I don't think ya'll gonna come to an agreement on this one. I'm all for surprises though!

david

I have been raw since 1987. Fruits, wheatgrass, indoor greens. Do not need salt, celery has plenty of it. Do not need pepper. Do not need spices.

Yes the pepper and other herbs can help us heal but when the natural state is re-established and harmony is back WHY altered it again with salt and pepper.

Dis-ease is a state of dis-harmony, in that state special conditions or ingredients can be used to re-establish the harmony but this does not imply that we should continue to alter the NATURAL sense of taste with spices once harmony is back.

In talking about foods we are not talking about things we wear or use externally, we are talking about substances that will become our blood, our mood, our mind, our thinking, it cannot be compared with the internet or computers, things external to our inner lives.

When you look at a grain of salt, it is hard, why would you want such a thing to be in your blood, you can disolve it in water, but once in your body after fooling you with great taste in the mouth, it will hardened your arteries.

The natural truth is difficult to digest sometimes

This whole "food is only food if you could eat it until you are full" thing is beyond bizarre to me. There are tons of foods I love but wouldn't sit and eat ONLY that until I was full....

hmm, maybe I should have added a smiley face. I don't have enough experience to debate this subject, so I'll just say that although I can appreciate the simplicity of natural hygiene as a healing/cleansing method, nothing but the purest of foods to cleanse the body and overcome an illness, I can't imagine that I'd ever get to the point, no matter how well I felt, that I'd find fault with pepper (or garlic or onion or any of the other items this philosophy rails against). Even if I stay on the diet after a lengthy cleanse, nature isn't that pure. Any animal, such as a bonobo, eating their relatively pure diet, is still going to be consuming unexpected additives inadvertantly - the spider, the ant, the dispersed peppercorn or whatever other spice or bird dropping lurks on their fruits/greens and provides additional flavor. They probably rarely get a purely mono meal.

Good points your raise but we are not talking about mono meals, the question is: should we inject foreign substances, pepers and spices to food that is already, naturally complete in itself. Should we?

OMG stop "shoulding" all over us. If this works for you, great. Enough Said.

Hey RP, I believe you brought mono meals into the discussion as part of your definition of a food, but as I see it, a mono meal only exists in a civilized society (a place rife with issues from being disconnected from nature).

pepper does not burn me, maybe you are more sensitive to it than others, my mom is extremely unhealthy, and pepper burns for her, yet I do not have a problem with it? no burning sensation, it just has a strong pungent flavor, not nearly as strong as the aforementioned kale juice though,LOL... cayenne on the other hand does burn... a lot... but anyway, I dont even know why we are all arguing this, fact of the matter is, Natural hygiene directly rejects medical science, so arguing with some one who follows it using science will never work, on the other side, those who believe in science will never be swayed by the beliefs of some one who follows natural Hygiene, so why should either side here be wasting our breath on each other? we will never convince the other of our respective beliefs.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe what I do, just asserting that what works for one does not work for all. That is something we should all be able to agree on but some people can't get past thinking that their solution is a one-size-fits all that EVERYONE not only could but should be using.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good points your raise but we are not talking
> about mono meals, the question is: should we
> inject foreign substances, pepers and spices to
> food that is already, naturally complete in
> itself. Should we?

hmmm, pepper is a food per my prior post. Black pepper and spices like cinnamon (lowers blood sugar) and tumeric (anti-inflammatory) are nutritional, make no mistake. But you seem to have mistaken Pepper. So let me help you.

This is black pepper

This is red pepper

And this is Lucky Ned Pepper



This is green pepper.

And this is/was Claude Pepper (guy on the right)

Now, that I have expended some effort, do you have your peppers straight yet? I sure hope so, pal. Cause, I can't make it any plainer than that. He's pepper, she's a pepper, wouldn't you like to be a Dr. ... too!!!! Man, when I'm good I'm good and when I'm bad.... I'm really really bad.

Paul

I read some time ago that black pepper was what made red meat more digestible after it was introduced to the west. It is a powerful digestive stimulant, and as such there are cautions in the literature about not over doing it.

Here are some I found just perusing the internet:

-----------------
CAUTION
Pepper contains a small amount of mildly carcinogenic compound called safrole.
if a person has abdominal surgery or ulcers, doctors advised that pepper be eliminated from his diet because of its irritating effect upon the intestines. They advised the patient to take a bland diet.
Black pepper essential oil is very strong and is a irritant in high concentration. Usually it is diluted with a carrier oil. In small amount, it stimulates the heart and kidney. over use can cause irritation and may result in kidney damage. Avoid using this oil if pregnant.
As with the use of all essential oils, care should be exercised. if you are unfamiliar with the use of essential oils seek professional advice.
-----------------


Spices such as black pepper and chili pepper can make food quite interesting, and without such spices, perhaps we wouldn't be drawn to foods that might not be the best for us. For example, would people consume as much french fries or potato chips if they weren't loaded with salt, and for the french fries, drenched in ketchup?

On the other hand, I can't say I know what they best food for anyone is except for myself. I mostly don't use strong spices and herbs, I like some cilantro regularly, and if I am making a gourmet dish, I'll use a tiny bit of cumin. I did find for myself that when I cut out strong digestive stimulants out of my diet, my body went through a huge detox, and I was able to get a much deeper level of rest and relaxation in my body that when I was using strong spices and condiments like garlic and vinegar.

heya coco, I wasnt saying you where, but I was trying to be even handed and not blame anybody in particular...didnt want to keep the argument going, ya know?

Some like cc, pb get very upset when their views are questioned. It is a forum, do not make it personal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 06:36AM by madinah.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been raw since 1987. Fruits, wheatgrass,
> indoor greens. Do not need salt, celery has plenty
> of it. Do not need pepper. Do not need spices.
>
> Yes the pepper and other herbs can help us heal
> but when the natural state is re-established and
> harmony is back WHY altered it again with salt and
> pepper.
>
> Dis-ease is a state of dis-harmony, in that state
> special conditions or ingredients can be used to
> re-establish the harmony but this does not imply
> that we should continue to alter the NATURAL sense
> of taste with spices once harmony is back.
>
> In talking about foods we are not talking about
> things we wear or use externally, we are talking
> about substances that will become our blood, our
> mood, our mind, our thinking, it cannot be
> compared with the internet or computers, things
> external to our inner lives.
>
> When you look at a grain of salt, it is hard, why
> would you want such a thing to be in your blood,
> you can disolve it in water, but once in your body
> after fooling you with great taste in the mouth,
> it will hardened your arteries.
>
> The natural truth is difficult to digest sometimes

I still and never will understand or have gotten any answer about the following question, to the natural hygiene society. Herbs are medicine or "symptom suppressors" etc due to there healing properties. But what about the fact that many of the compounds which give herbs there health boosting properties are exactly the same ones contained in fruits and vegetables which give them equally the same immune boosting, anti-viral etc properties. Are fruits and vegetables now medicine or "symptom suppressors"?

Remember digestive stimulants, lung expectorants(stimulants) etc are not CNS(central nervous system) stimulants they don't tax/stress or stimulate the adrenal glands in anyway. They aid the body and make its job easier i.e stimulating the digestive process.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 10:50AM by powerlifer.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some like cc, pb get very upset when their views
> are questioned. It is a forum, do not make it
> personal.


Not really. I've stayed pretty factual. Or humorous. Physician heal thyself. Follow your own advice and stop making personal comments.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 11:33AM by pborst.

Jonathan,

Black pepper is edible and has minor nutritive characteristics and medicinal properties. Eat it if your body likes it. Stop eating it if your body doesn't like it.

That is all

Oh PB just ignore that. Some people are only here to aggravate others. That seems to be all they ever contribute to the conversations. (Notice I am not naming names, because that would be RUDE.)

pborst you are very valuable to the forum, you bring so much understanding.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh PB just ignore that. Some people are only here
> to aggravate others. That seems to be all they
> ever contribute to the conversations. (Notice I am
> not naming names, because that would be RUDE.)

I like this forum.

I think some members just get tired when people come over with there opinions as its my way or the high way. The whole "this is the only way to live" with little to no factual evidence usually to back up can become quite irritating.

Im a big fan of herbs/spices as they got me well again but id never come across as this is the only way to live and that everything else is useless etc etc. I quite enjoy hearing how others thrive but others must accept that i thrive in other ways but some seem incapable of accepting this at times. No two people are the same, everyone thrives on different diets and lifestyles.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 01:24PM by powerlifer.

Prana, thanks for your input, I really appreciate your posts. I follow your advice on spices, except salt - since we extract salt when sweating, I think we may need to add some to our diet.

It is not an opinion, it is the truth.
Spices do not add a new value to a food in its natural state.
You cannot improve on a ripe mango or banana.
What spices do is help us eat foods that the body would not want to eat in its raw state in the first place. We are fooled into thinking it is good for us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 02:42PM by RawPracticalist.