RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not an opinion, it is the truth.
> Spices do not add a new value to a food in its
> natural state.
> You cannot improve on a ripe mango or banana.

See this is the sort of stuff im talking about, it doesn't bother me because i find it quite amusing but i can see how it rubs some up the wrong way.

It is simply your opinion that this is the truth. Show me some evidence other than your opinion that not adding any food with nutritional value to the fruit isn't increasing its worth and nutrients.

"...it is the truth" - interesting. That gets to the heart of the issue, mankind believing he has discovered the truth, such as the earth is flat. Cults are formed by such beliefs, wars are fought over them, there's no need or reason for further questioning or learning once the truth is found, until someone comes along and presents something new.

Paul your photo montage was priceless

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not an opinion, it is the truth.
> Spices do not add a new value to a food in its
> natural state.
> You cannot improve on a ripe mango or banana.
> What spices do is help us eat foods that the body
> would not want to eat in its raw state in the
> first place. We are fooled into thinking it is
> good for us.


You seem to not understand the difference between opinion and fact. What you've just said ("Spices do not add value..." is an opinion. In order for it not to be we'd have to have some pre-set definition for "value" that we all agreed on. What makes something valuable? Taste? Nutritional qualities? Something that looks pretty on a plate?

I could argue that black pepper on a banana adds not only taste "value" (in my opinion of course)but nutritional value as well. You could counter that argument but you'd have to have a logical reason why YOUR definition of value is more real than mine, and that cannot be done. That is why fact and opinion are two different things, and that is why a lot of people get annoyed when people state opinion as fact.

If you add black pepper to a banana like you do it will make the banana less digestible, blocking nutrient absorption, how is that adding nutritional values?
You are taking away from the banana.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you add black pepper to a banana like you do it
> will make the banana less digestible, blocking
> nutrient absorption, how is that adding
> nutritional values?
> You are taking away from the banana.

And how does black pepper achieve this wild opinion of yours blocking nutrients? Black pepper has been shown to increase digestion of food in studies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 06:31PM by powerlifer.

Which studies?
You may not even find enough people on this forum wanting to add black pepper on bananas.

-_-

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which studies?
> You may not even find enough people on this forum
> wanting to add black pepper on bananas.

There are multiple studies on black peppers ability to increase the absorption of nutrients of food its eaten alongside and with its ability to stimulate digestion.

Putting the black pepper on bananas was purely a hypothetical example. Now im interested in where you are obtaining the information that black pepper block nutrient absorption?

EDIT: Infact piperine which is the alkaloid in question in black pepper has been shown to increase nutrient absorption up to 2000%.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 07:15PM by powerlifer.

Numerous studies have confirmed that it is good for children to consume cow milk, cheese etc. Also, numorous studies confirmed positive effects of coffee on our health. Yet, most of the people on this forum do not consume milk or coffee. This means we should be careful when quoting official "studies" in an argument.

RawPracticalist, I agree with you, but you have be aware that the burden of proof is on you. It is obvious that pepper is offically accepted as "food" so, just like the raw food diet nutritionists have written books to explain why raw food is the only food we should consume, you need to find good scientific grounds for your claim that black pepper is not good.

I do not use black pepper, other spices I only use occassionally and sparingly. But, I cannot claim that I know the "truth" - I just know enough to make a decision for myself.

Studies should always be heavily analyzed for there meanings, often hidden agendas from those who design them. But in this case there is no motives, black pepper has shown in numerous studies piperines ability to increase nutrient absorption aswell as many other health benefits.

But keeping it inline with the topic at hand black pepper does increase nutrient absorption. Also coffee does have some health properties such as antioxidant etc but doesn't mean its a healthy beverage to consume, its stimulant properties far outweigh any benefit that could be had.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 08:17PM by powerlifer.

The external help for nutrition absorption is only required when the food is not digestible by itself in the first place.

What this does is to keep us with the old habits of consuming food not digestible, I will have that pizza or pie with black pepper to help me push it down. There was a scientific paper to back me up on that.

Foods that are digestible do not need external help, they are 90+ percent water, they are juicy.

If you put some black pepper on sliced mangoes, or pineapple you will feel guilty because it does not belong



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 08:43PM by RawPracticalist.

You have bypassed answering my question on any data at all which suggests black pepper blocks nutrients as you said.

Again you've twisted it, whether we need the extra help or not doesn't detract from the fact black peppers/piperines ability to increase nutrient absorption and fully maximize what nutrients we get from whatever food.

Digestion can be very dependent on the individual and if there having problems, low stomach acid, low levels and imbalanced gut flora etc, there are many with weak digestive systems who cannot even digest raw fruits and vegetables.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 08:43PM by powerlifer.

Did you provide any data that shows that black pepper increase nutrient absorption, you did not.
For one thing black pepper is dried, it will take away from the water in the food I am eating, reduce the water content, it is another substance with its own hour of digestion which may not be the same as that of the orange of pineapple I am eating.
It may be helpful for foods like pizza or pie which take hours to digest. These foods are not part of my diet, things should digest in 30 minutes or less.

No i never but you never asked i did, do you want me to provide data about black pepper/piperines ability to increase nutrient absorption and aid digestion as id be more than happy too? A simple search with the above brings up many links, but if you don't want to take the time im happy enough to dig out a few in this case.

Can you provide the data to back up your claim?

Whether you digest great or what your eating isn't the issue here, the fact is that black pepper does increase nutrient absorption, its that simple. If we don't go on at least the un-motivated simple scientific data we have access too then it just becomes a free for all with everyone making up anything they wish on health.

Most use around 1 teaspoon of black pepper or other dried spices i highly highly doubt that its going to effect your water content in any drastically noticeable way.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 09:07PM by powerlifer.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you provide any data that shows that black
> pepper increase nutrient absorption, you did not.

sorry sport, you must have missed my posts a page or two back. Indians use black pepper in their native cooking to improve tumeric absorption. The spice increase bioavailability of selenium, b vitamins and beta carotene. It may also reduce hypertension. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

> For one thing black pepper is dried, it will take
> away from the water in the food I am eating,
> reduce the water content,

You're kidding me right? A little pepper will lead to dehydration. Since he who asserts must prove. Show me your data.


it is another substance
> with its own hour of digestion which may not be
> the same as that of the orange of pineapple I am
> eating.

I don't put pepper on mangos or pineapple or any fruit, suspect most people don't. What's your point? Simply knocking down strawmen doesn't help anyone. Pepper may help absorption.. flavor and enhance the dining experience, or pleasure . What's the harm?

> It may be helpful for foods like pizza or pie
> which take hours to digest. These foods are not
> part of my diet, things should digest in 30
> minutes or less.

Why is fast digestion an advantage over slower digestion? Reptiles digest slowly and many of them outlive us. Any data on longevity and digestion?

If you have found something that works for you, great. Share your experience, sport. Don't push it.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 11:22PM by pborst.

i've been eating only black pepper for the last 15 years and now I have to wear a @#$%& eating grin and a diaper wherever I go

david

pborst
You are missing the message, this is a raw food forum, did you forget?
Who care what pepper indians were putting in their COOKINGS?
No amount of studies will make me use spices to improve cooked food absorption.
Most cooked foods are not properly combined so you need assitance with absorption.
Why would I need a little pepper on sliced of ripe mangoes or on green leaves or carrot juice, they are already digestible. A little pepper is too much, I need ZERO pepper. We are talking about raw food, are not we?

The dining experience is not enhanced by pepper, the dining experience is already enhanced as you move closer to eating food in its natural state.
Fruits are invinting, appealing, they want to be eaten. That is enough of an enhancement.
I read that your were leaving the forum because people were not agreeing with you. Your views are not the only views.

Its actually a living and raw foods forum and just because something is dried doesn't mean its dead. Most herbs and spices are raw.

Like i always say its each to there own no one is trying to convince you to use black pepper or incorporate it into your lifestyle which obviously works well for yourself.

But you cant go around making up wild myths such as black pepper blocks nutrient absorption etc and then not back it up or just continue to ignore it.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You are missing the message, this is a raw food
> forum, did you forget?


This site is called Raw Food SUPPORT, I think it's YOU that is missing the point here. We are called on to support whatever version of raw each individual chooses to follow not just the one we personally subscribe to.



> Your views are
> not the only views.


Well, if that's not the pot calling the kettle black! Read your own advice back to yourself please. You need to hear it more than anyone.

coco, when your views are challenged, you provide NO SUPPORT.

Really? I have continuously been saying that if you have found something that works for YOU then you should stick with it, even if it is not what others are doing. But you could also have the respect to acknowledge that others may have found something different that works equally well for them. I am not seeing that from you. I am seeing you say that your way is the only way while providing ZERO support, references, links to studies, or anything all the while insisting that your OPINION is the truth and that those who don't agree with you are wrong.
Until you can back up what you say with some hard facts and data or until you are willing to concede that YOU DON'T KNOW the truth, that these assertions are only what you think personally, you do not have my support. I'll reserve that for the people here who are reasonable about open discussion. So buh bye. If all you are here to do is try telling people what to think, we just don't need it.

Hey RP,

I like the simplicity and the purity of your philosophy, and am trying it as I write this, but it is just a philosophy. Mistaking anything as the one and only truth is what gets mankind into trouble. Islamic fundamentalitsts believe they have the truth, as do all other religions. Whale-blubber eating eskimos probably believe they have the truth. As do republicans and democrats. It seems to me, from what I've read, natural hygiene is an interesting, even beautiful philosophy in many ways, but if you turn your philosophy into the one and only truth (aka cult) then you risk closing your mind to all other possibilities, which is what happens in all religions - a closed mind, stuck within the limiting walls of their chosen truths. One day, if I stay on this diet long enough, I might share your natural hygiene philosophy, promoting it as a beautiful healthy choice, but never the natural hygiene religion.

I've heard that Black Pepper cannot be dissolved by our bodies, and therefore must pass through unused. Has anyone else heard this?.....WY

Wheatgrass Yogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard that Black Pepper cannot be dissolved
> by our bodies, and therefore must pass through
> unused. Has anyone else heard this?.....WY

Ive never read anything to suggest so WY, would be interested in any data none the less. But from what ive read it black pepper is perfectly digestible.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you add black pepper to a banana like you do it
> will make the banana less digestible, blocking
> nutrient absorption, how is that adding
> nutritional values?
> You are taking away from the banana.


If you don't believe in mainstream studies, I'm just wondering what caused you to believe this is true. I've never heard or seen any evidence that pepper makes things less digestible. I'm just wondering how you came to this conclusion? Self testing? Other people's testimonials? I'm not making fun or being rude or anything, I'm really just curious. Personally I think other people's testimonials ARE just as good as studies, when you use your intuition along with it. I've just never heard much about it before joining this forum.

Boy, I do not believe in mainstream studies? When did I say that.
I am a scientist by education and profession (Phd).

I can provide pages of arguments links to back up my statements but most of the points here in the forum are dealing just with simple common sense.

Why would a ripe mango suddenly be more disgestible because we added a foreign substance such as black pepper. The mango has the nutrients and water content in equilibrium to give the body what he can get from the mango, now because there are some studies somewhere, we need to IMPROVE on the natural mango with some black pepper. Did you read WY line "Black Pepper cannot be dissolved by our bodies" this from another study. So if black pepper is eaten with mango, the mango nutrients are being held in waiting until the pepper can be removed from the body, is this improvement.

I think I might continue to use it in transition but I don't think I would plan to eat it regularly.

Sorry RP, I mixed up another poster with your posts when it came to the studies thing. Mad respect for the PHD!

I'm personally not claiming pepper makes things more digestible, it just doesn't do anything bad that I can tell. If it does, it's just one of those things for me, like breathing air that is probably polluted when you walk through a city... you could avoid that by never going into a city or anywhere near cars but that would be a pretty isolated life. I feel that with dietary stuff too... if being perfect means missing out on flavor then I'd rather not be perfect. And no, the flavor of fruit isn't the sort of flavor I'm talking about. Fruit is delicious and I like it for what it is but life wouldn't be the same without my yummy spicy foods as well.

I admire you for your diet at the same time. Beautiful in its simplicity.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boy, I do not believe in mainstream studies? When
> did I say that.
> I am a scientist by education and profession
> (Phd).
>
> I can provide pages of arguments links to back up
> my statements but most of the points here in the
> forum are dealing just with simple common sense.
>
> Why would a ripe mango suddenly be more
> disgestible because we added a foreign substance
> such as black pepper. The mango has the nutrients
> and water content in equilibrium to give the body
> what he can get from the mango, now because there
> are some studies somewhere, we need to IMPROVE on
> the natural mango with some black pepper. Did you
> read WY line "Black Pepper cannot be dissolved by
> our bodies" this from another study. So if black
> pepper is eaten with mango, the mango nutrients
> are being held in waiting until the pepper can be
> removed from the body, is this improvement.

For a scientist your quick to jump to assumptions, WY said he heard it some where didn't say a study. I have asked you time and time again on the past few pages to back up your view that black pepper blocks nutrient absorption and you've provided me nothing. So you say you can provide pages then please do as i have been kindly asking to see some evidence.

As per your last paragraph again just more pseudo gunk, The mango nutrients are held in waiting until the pepper can be removed from the body LOL where do you get this stuff man? You make up your own science it seems, and i don't mean this to come off rude if it has sorry but it seems your just making this up as you go along.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 05:19PM by powerlifer.