Where are your study that say black pepper IMPROVE nutrients absorption????
What was the population (mice or human?), the sample size, the key statistics???

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pborst
> You are missing the message, this is a raw food
> forum, did you forget?
> Who care what pepper indians were putting in their
> COOKINGS?

It's a raw food forum, but not necessarily a 100 percent raw food forum, nor do you have to use pepper in just cooked foods.

> Why would I need a little pepper on sliced of ripe
> mangoes or on green leaves or carrot juice, they
> are already digestible. A little pepper is too
> much, I need ZERO pepper. We are talking about raw
> food, are not we?

Raw and cooked. Pepper can be used on raw food but doesn't have to be exclusively. I have my tumeric/pepper combo raw if that helps.
>

> The dining experience is not enhanced by pepper,

For you. You don't speak for me.

> the dining experience is already enhanced as you
> move closer to eating food in its natural state.

Again, RP, if you are making personal statements, that's fine. Some foods in their natural state are less edible or more risky. Each food is different.

> Fruits are invinting, appealing, they want to be
> eaten. That is enough of an enhancement.

Nothing wrong with fruits. What does that have to do with pepper?

> I read that your were leaving the forum because
> people were not agreeing with you. Your views are
> not the only views.

I took a hiatus from the forum a while back, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? As far as my views not being the only views, of course not. Nor are yours which, I think, is what we've been trying to say. You insist in trying to peddle opinion for "truth" which gets a little old.

but tell me, you have failed to respond to one study or site which shows pepper can enhance absorption or reduce risk from hypertension. Why is that? Is it perhaps because you have no evidence to the contrary or are just wedded to parroting the same old tired line that pepper doesn't belong on a mango?

Either way, you are entitled to your own opinion, but as Daniel Patrick Moynihan said not your own facts. Just don't keep confusing the two as you have on this thread.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 05:32PM by pborst.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where are your study that say black pepper IMPROVE
> nutrients absorption????
> What was the population (mice or human?), the
> sample size, the key statistics???

You never asked me and last night i asked you do you wish for me to post a few studies and you ignored my post. Paul has already kind enough linked one study. Im more than happy to look out more if you wish? But first like i have asked as far back as the first page and seeing as you have pages to back up your claims, please provide at least some evidence that black pepper blocks nutrient absorption?.

Like i say again you have pages to back yourself up but you have waived over as usual and deflected my asking about you backing up what your saying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 05:43PM by powerlifer.

btw, here's a recent review that demonstrates that black pepper may be both safe and more beneficial than previously thought.

[informahealthcare.com]

and more of the same

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 05:48PM by pborst.

Is it just finding the study, seeing the study online, what is the research methodology? Yes I found this study so it must be true????????????
It is not just black or white, there are conflicting studies, you need to read closely, compare, make judgements

Most studies are rejected because improper research and testing methologies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 06:38PM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it just finding the study, seeing the study
> online, what is the research methodology? Yes I
> found this study so it must be true????????????
> It is not just black or white, there are
> conflicting studies, you need to read closely,
> compare, make judgements
>
> Most studies are rejected because improper
> research and testing methologies.

Course it isn't black and white for many studies and i determine that myself by looking how said study was designed.

But your reply again with nothing when you seemingly have pages to back your opinions goes to show me that you have nothing.

Im out i can only ask so many times with no reply. I don't see why you couldn't have just said from the start this is what i feel rather than this is the "truth" methodology to all of your opinions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 06:50PM by powerlifer.

hehe a *heated* debate over *pepper* hehe .. *pun intended*

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

hahaha just what this thread needed to make it a lil easier to digest, a sprinkle of Jodi here and there,lol.

"btw, here's a recent review that demonstrates that black pepper may be both safe and more beneficial than previously thought. "

...MAY BE. Every single study that Yahoo publishes to encourage consumers to keep on consuming has those words: "may be". Yet, everyone reeds it as a fact, they do not realize that "may be" means "may be". Nothing else.

At this point it isn't even the context of this discussion that's being rejected but the way the information is presented that is turning people off.
Statements like "In my experience..."
"What I have found works for me..."
"When I do ____, _____ happens."
etc go a long way in facilitating an open exchange of ideas. Telling people what "IS" and disregarding their experiences and thoughts on a topic will not get you very far. Kicked out of the conversation maybe but hey, that might be what you're after to begin with.

As long as we are talking about half truths everything is fine. A tomato is half red. At night it is not true that the ceilings will stand so let's not sleep.It is not true that sun will rise today. I may not get to the train station because the ground may fall.
Life will not be livable without the things we consider TRUE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 12:28AM by madinah.

rab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "btw, here's a recent review that demonstrates
> that black pepper may be both safe and more
> beneficial than previously thought. "
>
> ...MAY BE. Every single study that Yahoo publishes
> to encourage consumers to keep on consuming has
> those words: "may be". Yet, everyone reeds it as a
> fact, they do not realize that "may be" means "may
> be". Nothing else.

These studies aren't from yahoo though and if i have read both of them properly none of them suggested may be. I do agree many take studies out of context this site is probably one of the worst for it especially when it comes to b12, or a handful of studies findings on fat, it is automatically taken as fact. But when study upon study starts showing you the same conclusion you have to agree that its likely becoming fact what it is presenting, if it is designed properly and without motive of course.

A good example was a recent b12 study which took 3000 participants from a town in the US, and it showed 39% of them had low b12. This quickly became misquoted and spread around that 39% of the US were b12 deficient.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 11:05AM by powerlifer.

When a monkey found some ripe bananas in the wild he is naturally drawn to them and seat and eat until he is full and goes to sleep. He is guided by his natural senses and there is an harmony between his needs and the messages the ripe bananas are broadcasting to be found. He will stop when he is full and does not need to add any other substance or food to the bananas. He does not need some study to confirm his natural instincts.
We humans need confirmation for maintaining our bad habits. It is very sad.
Let simplicity and nature guide you, the truth is already in you not in some papers.

We are not monkeys, rats, birds, eagles, fish or any other species though. We might bear some close genetics to some of the above but we are humans. A monkey didn't use his natural instincts to guide his way to build the internet and sign up to the forum.

My instincts are different from your instincts, my genetics are different from yours also. What is right for one may not be right for another.

Yes lets discard some basic fundamentals such as science and make our own up whilst were at it.</sarcasm>

We have lost our natural senses of harmony. You do not need to be a monkey to know that. Nature has harmony, equilibrium, we need to return to that simplicity and it is not black pepper that can help do that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 03:19PM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have lost our natural senses of harmony. You do
> not need to be a monkey to know that. Nature has
> harmony, equilibrium, we need to return to that
> simplicity and it is not black pepper that can
> help do that.

Why not black pepper and other herbs and spices are from nature and have likely been used just as long as the banana.

Can you eat black pepper until your are full? Can you? It is not a food.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as we are talking about half truths
> everything is fine.

Nobody is is presenting anything as half truths.

A tomato is half red. At night
> it is not true that the ceilings will stand so
> let's not sleep.It is not true that sun will rise
> today. I may not get to the train station because
> the ground may fall.
> Life will not be livable without the things we
> consider TRUE.

What's your point? Raw Practicalist present an affirmative statement(s) that using black pepper detracts from the dining experience and offers nothing nutritionally. The objection is that RP may be characterizing opinion as fact. If you want to play games with words, be my guest. Perhaps a post for RedHerrings-R-US.

Paul

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you eat black pepper until your are full? Can
> you? It is not a food.

Asked and answered, if you want an admission that under your definition of food black pepper is not a food, I offer it. Setting up strawman and offering arcane definitions doesn't change the game though. Black pepper can be a valuable nutrient and food [common definition RP, not yours] that enhances dining and improves nutrient absorption. There. How's that?

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 03:31PM by pborst.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you eat black pepper until your are full? Can
> you? It is not a food.

Ohhhhhhh my are we back to this again sigh, next your going to tell me black pepper blocks nutrient absorption again with nothing to back it up aren't you?

Your confusing your definition of food with sate again.

Adding black pepper to food is not observed in pure nature.
Some rawfoodists need b12 injection. Very strange.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 03:37PM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you eat black pepper until your are full? Can
> you? It is not a food.

What about green pepper? How much of that can you eat? Or celery? You will not eat it until you are "full." You will not have this strong urge to continue eating it the way you would other foods. I do agree with you that simplicity is the ideal. I have a tendency to spice everything, use salt on everything, and you are right--it just increases the amount you want to eat, whether or not you truly need it. But variety is the...er...spice of life (sorry) and what spices do is allow you to experience difference and that helps to stave off the boredom of every day being the same thing.

Yes I can eat celery until I am full.

We are just going in circles at this point.

Definitions of food on the Web:

* any substance that can be metabolized by an animal to give energy and build tissue
* any solid substance (as opposed to liquid) that is used as a source of nourishment; "food and drink"
* anything that provides mental stimulus for thinking

Doesn't say anything about being able to be eaten until full. That really is an invalid point, in my opinion. If you want to argue that black pepper is not "food" I'd go more with the question of whether or not it is a "source of nourishment". That has nothing to do with whether or not you can eat it until it is full. If studies are showing that it enhances absorption then I'd say yes, it is a source of nourishment. If studies are showing that it blocks absorption somehow I'd consider it an anti-nutrient flavor enhancer and therefore not a food. But the studies aren't really clear to me either way...?

Monkeys will also sometimes eat their own @#$%&. I'm just sayin'...

Im sure ive seen you mention either in this thread or another that you had a juice with carrot, celery something like that, well you cant get full on juice so i guess that isn't a food or provides any nutrition if going on what your saying?

I cant believe im even debating at this point its so silly.

There is no information other than RP's posts anywhere that black pepper blocks absorption of anything. Although he says he has pages to back it up but has continued to ignore my posts asking any information led alone credible which only backs my points up further really that there is none. A food should be based on if it is a source of nutrition in which case black pepper and other spices are. That is before we even get into the various health benefits many of these spices have.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 04:18PM by powerlifer.

Oh great, monkey see as monkey do, now I have to eat my own poo, too?

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Monkeys will also sometimes eat their own @#$%&.
> I'm just sayin'...


Very good point! We are not Monkeys.

jimtoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh great, monkey see as monkey do, now I have to
> eat my own poo, too?

Only if its ripe and without spices jimtoo.

Corathegreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are just going in circles at this point.
>
> Definitions of food on the Web:
>
> * any substance that can be metabolized by an
> animal to give energy and build tissue
> * any solid substance (as opposed to liquid)
> that is used as a source of nourishment; "food and
> drink"
> * anything that provides mental stimulus for
> thinking
>
> Doesn't say anything about being able to be eaten
> until full. That really is an invalid point, in my
> opinion. If you want to argue that black pepper is
> not "food" I'd go more with the question of
> whether or not it is a "source of nourishment".
> That has nothing to do with whether or not you can
> eat it until it is full. If studies are showing
> that it enhances absorption then I'd say yes, it
> is a source of nourishment. If studies are showing
> that it blocks absorption somehow I'd consider it
> an anti-nutrient flavor enhancer and therefore not
> a food. But the studies aren't really clear to me
> either way...?


Why do you need a study to improve on the absorption of natural food, it is already optimal. If you have defeciencies in your digestive system, it is not the food that is missing something, it is your system that need to be healed, and that is not done with black pepper which will make you maintain your old habits, it is done thru eating less, fasting, and returning to the natural harmony and equilibrium you were given at birth.