My friend, an ER doctor, has a brilliant analogy about this. He says that as a young person we think we know so much because our body of knowledge is quite small so the circumference of it, that represents all the knowledge we don't have, it quite small as well. Conversely, as we learn more and more that outer edge of knowledge expands to reveal an increasingly larger body of knowledge outside of our sphere, we come to see how much more there is to learn that we don't know. The larger your puddle of wisdom becomes, the more you realize is out there that you don't yet understand.

Forgive me if that doesn't make sense, I have been up late working for days on end and find myself exhausted tonight and perhaps not as coherent as I think .

Yes, that is a great analogy.
So, be "quiet, kind and gentle" - and don't give unwanted advice? I have to write it somewhere, even though my previous notes (like "baby steps" etc.) never worked.

Thanks, coco - I obviously have some dilemmas that are too big for my poor head. It would be nice to have a dilemma calculator, enter all the parameters and get the best result - this is what you need to do! Like chess players.

Rab, I feel from you that you are totally coming from a place of love with this but I also hear your frustration loud and clear and those two things can make for muddy communication, you know? Like it's very hard to get a message across to someone about something that you think might be of benefit to them if you're frustrated, angry, upset on some level. I don't think that offering advice in the form of anecdotes or plain old information is a bad thing, quite the opposite. My point was only that when you find yourself trying to make an offering like that and feel like you're coming up against resistance instead of knocking against a brick wall, back off for a second and think about how to communicate with that person, an approach that reaches them on a positive level and leaves you feeling satisfied that you were able to offer something of value and have it willingly, openly and gratefully received. Of course, a large part of this is knowing your audience. Different people may respond to quite different approaches of course.
You seem like a strong communicator, have you ever considered taking courses like non-violent communication? Things like "I" messages are powerful tools for being heard, I have always had great success with that format. I plan to study some more non-violent communication myself, I think that it's something every and anyone could benefit from learning but particularly people who get frustrated the way you do (I recognize it because I often feel the same way BTW).
Sometimes you don't need a dilemma calculator, just a sounding board .

Rab,
"Just like the bible says. Whoever multiplies knowledge multiplies suffering."

Which bible? where does it say that? I ask at the risk of starting an arguement I am curious. What kind of knowledge are we talking about? If its the christian bible there hasn't been an update in about 2,000 years, unless you count fringe movments which claim to add new revelations. The book is a book of 'spirituality' or claims to be, and not that of science.

I am of the opinion that true knowledge will RELIEVE one from suffering, and increasing it will provide even more levels of relief. Ideally knowledge should have a natural ring and appeal associated with it. Like an 'a ha' moment that people often feel when coming upon some major discovery.

Coco,
Thats amazing, I was reading about thoughts, intent and words last night. This was in the context of wicca and magick. It really left me thinking and concerned about the ripple effects of everything one says and does.

The law of three is what enabled one to perform 'magick'. But apparently this law is constantly in effect, even when you aren't consciously doing a spell. Its kind of empowering information, but sometimes a bit scary the implications. I haven't fully accepted it yet, but it seems to be ringing true. I still have a lot of questions, and more reading about ethical foundations. Its really changing my perception of a lot of things.

I would not fret about the three-fold law, you have been aware of it all your life.
The Rule of Three is comparable to other ethics of reciprocity, such as the concept of karma in Dharmic religions and the Christian edict, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The Golden Rule.

Good words to live by "Ever mind the Rule of Three. Three times what thou gives returns to thee. This lesson well, thou must learn, thy only gets what thou dost earn."

Mislu,

Ecclesiastes 1:18, generally interpreted as the words of Solomon:

"For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow."

The more you know, the more there is to worry about. And Solomon knew from vexation; you try giving one baby to two different women at the same time and see how you like it!

Powerlifer, do you eat salt and fried foods (the falafel)? Just curious.


A few years ago, after being raw for at least a year, I had a tomato pie, steamed broccoli at an airport that didn't have any fresh fruit (wasn't in U.S.). I was fine with my decision mentally. I could have either fasted or eaten something, and I chose the tomato pie and veggies. I felt ill for at least 4 hours afterwards, like I was going to throw up, bloated, and the digestion was clearly not as efficient as fresh fruits & vegetables. This was not a mental thing for me.

I oven bake the falafels or any other bean/legume patty i make. Not really on the salt front, i have a half seaweed half cornish sea salt mixture which i use now and again in soups i make in my vitamix.

Personally i found it extremely hard to differentiate between what symptoms were mental and physical. I would purge at times due to the nausea after eating clean for a fair bit then id go on long rampages of not caring what i eat, id end up eating the same thing that caused me to purge with no problems, where as just the day before i had poor digestion, nausea, vomitting etc.

Maybe there is some degree of raw fooders becoming sensitive, but id have thought someone who ate as clean and mono as some raw fooders do they would have a tough enough digestion to tackle most food in sensible quantities. It would then seem that 100% raw and such actually weaken your digestion if this was the case.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2011 01:28PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I oven bake the falafels or any other bean/legume
> patty i make. Not really on the salt front, i have
> a half seaweed half cornish sea salt mixture which
> i use now and again in soups i make in my
> vitamix.
>
> Personally i found it extremely hard to
> differentiate between what symptoms were mental
> and physical. I would purge at times due to the
> nausea after eating clean for a fair bit then id
> go on long rampages of not caring what i eat, id
> end up eating the same thing that caused me to
> purge with no problems, where as just the day
> before i had poor digestion, nausea, vomitting
> etc.
>
> Maybe there is some degree of raw fooders becoming
> sensitive, but id have thought someone who ate as
> clean and mono as some raw fooders do they would
> have a tough enough digestion to tackle most food
> in sensible quantities. It would then seem that
> 100% raw and such actually weaken your digestion
> if this was the case.
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]


I can see including some cooked foods at times if you're still eating salt and moderate fat, but low-fat and salt-free is tougher. I don't think it weakened digestion; I think our body sends us signals when we put something less-than-optimal into it. That's just my thoughts, though.

You can eat cooked foods without added salt or fat though, when I steam veggies for the kids we have them plain. If anything I might add a squeeze of lemon now and then but since lemons don't grow where we live I don't buy them often.
Soup is lovely without fat or salt as well, I find the natural sweetness of foods comes out when there isn't any salt. Soup can be better with some avocado or hemp seeds for fat but I hardly count those, they aren't oil.

I was so highly affected by everything when 100% raw, it was awful. Car exhaust, the smell of someone's shampoo, cigarette smoke, all could make me nauseous in an instant. The noise of traffic, a crush of people all around, too much activity, hustle and bustle, I couldn't take it. Even out in the country the sound of a lawnmower was so disturbing, it took a lot to stay balanced. While it's great to be so clean and healthy in many ways it's just not doable in our culture. Lots of unnatural and abrasive things exist, we must have ways to deal with that and a certain level of desensitization is necessary.

Yeah, I get that was what was necessary for you, Coco and what you find doable for yourself. Did you do yoga at the time?

What coco says makes me think is that it does increase sensitivity but not necessarily for the better in many. Personally i dont think its sending signals because optimal digestion in my opinion should be able to deal with pretty much any food in sensible amounts.

As far as fat goes ill have a little nuts/seeds i.e chia etc per day or an avocado when i can pick them up. Just a moderate fat intake really. But i can digest pretty much anything these days even in crazy large amounts since rectifying my digestion. I used to be not able to digest much at all at one point including raw foods.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2011 03:46PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What coco says makes me think is that it does
> increase sensitivity but not necessarily for the
> better in many. Personally i dont think its
> sending signals because optimal digestion in my
> opinion should be able to deal with pretty much
> any food in sensible amounts.
>
> As far as fat goes ill have a little nuts/seeds
> i.e chia etc per day or an avocado when i can pick
> them up. Just a moderate fat intake really. But i
> can digest pretty much anything these days even in
> crazy large amounts since rectifying my digestion.
> I used to be not able to digest much at all at one
> point including raw foods.
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]


----
that's great re: your digestion, power!!!



as far as sensitivity, you're looking at it in retrospect, because you (and coco and me, presumably) were cooked food eaters prior to being raw foodists. for exapmle, if you grew up as a raw foodie, and then later in life you ate some cooked food, you'd have a different perspective on what was "too sensitive" and what was the baseline for yourself.

A thought on the sensitivity issue... food allergies could be at play. I don't know if being 100% raw would make a person more sensitive to ALL cooked food in general (not saying it doesn't for you guys, just that I don't know the science behind it) but I do know that when a person has food sensitivities to things like gluten or soy, and they go off them and heal for a little bit, usually they become violently sensitive to them if they were to ingest them again. \

The tomato pie and veggies UL had at an airport, I'm guessing were probably loaded with soy lecithin, gluten, god knows what else... airport food is usually not healthy food and I've had to fast at most airports ( or I bring a bunch of bananas with me when I travel) because I can't risk ingesting even the slightest trace of gluten or soy.

So I'm wondering if it's a raw thing, or just that so many people have unknown sensitivities to these harsh "foods" and just happen to go raw before they ever figure it out.

I understand what your saying utopian, just i still don't really understand if the sensitivities are mental or physical and why it occurs if these are real physical sensations.

Cora hits a good point about the allergens but ive heard raw fooders complain about numerous things like not being able to watch tv anymore or be around electrical appliances. Coco explains a few of the others i.e peoples perfume is another one i hear often complained about. Intolerance to loud noises etc which isnt normal.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

It's funny, that morning, I had like six bananas with me but by the afternoon I was hungry and had eaten them all. :p

I'm sensitive to computers, tv, cell phones etc NOW, never mind then! I can't use a cell phone or be very close to a wireless signal without getting a headache. For the longest time I couldn't figure this out but then they made wireless internet available at our small town library and then it was apparent what was giving me the horrible buzzing vertigo headache. Yuck.

When I started eating cooked food again it was a small portion of organic lentil soup from a health food store, about 5 ingredients. I felt fine, in fact great. Grounded and satisfied. I was pregnant at that time though.

Coco,
I got that the rule of 3 has many similiarities with other ethical ideals elsewhere. I just never thought of that stated exactly that way. I still don't know if its exactly true, as some people seem to be immune to unethical choices.

I would accept the golden rule as good general consideration for the masses. However I think the actual ethical consideration is ones intent. How I would like to be treated may not be how someone else may want to be treated. Additionally maybe how a person wants to be treated may not in their own best interest or yours or maybe a lot of people.

The judgement of solomon is an interesting but strange story. I don't know if its good discussion here.

Utopian Life,
It would be interesting to see if one could test mental effects around eating. The problem is how can one eat something without knowing if its cooked or not?

I have heard of the experiement where someone drank all their food through a tube. The food being liquified in a blender. They didn't know the exact content of the food or the amount. That experiment was centered around weight loss. The person lost weight not knowing how much they ate.

It would be interesting if one drank everything through a tube, could one tell if they didn't know if it were cooked food? Raw food, or some mixture? Taste could give it away, but part of how one tells is the smell, the sight and texture. Those would be reduced through a tube. I think I would like to try that exeriment myself.

Nope, but I feel happier and more clear headed. So people are more attracted to me then when I was sicker.

My video to keep me inspired on my health quest: [www.youtube.com]

When I became raw I was so empathic I could hear peoples thoughts and feel there emotions very deeply, so I started reading into medium books and that's helped me a lot. Know I know how to channel my energy, ground myself and Iv even given readings in a class and I was 100% correct I surprised myself.

CherieRaw
wow that would be very interesting to hear people thoughts. Someone who like to soul travel said that he once briefly occupied someones body. He didn't feel right doing that, and avoided it as much as possible.

When my father inlaw was dying of cancer I briefly inhabited his body, feeling what it was like to have advanced cancer. I didn't try to make that happen, and I believe it was actually my fin who allowed that to happen, just so that someone could understand what he was going through. That really changed my perception of everything.

WanderRA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What non raw foods do you eat powerlifter? what do
> you reccomend?
>
> I wouldnt mind adding a little cooked into my diet
> ie rice.. rice is the healthiest carb heavy food i
> can think of. I have the same problem, i work out
> a lot and am pretty much grazing on raw foods
> throughout the day.


I think if I could eat only one cooked food together with raw it would definitely be brown rice - I live in a place where rice is the main part of people's diet and I am amazed how well people seem to do on white rice. I recently had an upset stomach so after I ate a mono diet or soupy rice for some days and was surprised at how energetic I felt....I have never heard of anyone being allergic to rice either.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CherieRaw
> wow that would be very interesting to hear people
> thoughts. Someone who like to soul travel said
> that he once briefly occupied someones body. He
> didn't feel right doing that, and avoided it as
> much as possible.
>
I can understand why he didn't feel right - I think generally people's thoughts are their own personal space and reading others thoughts would be like an invasion of privacy....

Merry, I LOVE congie! Not gonna eat any but wow I remember when I did, yummmm. Perfect for a sick belly too, I don't know how that works but it does.

If I were to regularly eat a cooked grain it would have to be quinoa, it's a complete protein and the tastiest little grain going too.