[www.youtube.com]

EVERYTHING else is a waste of time, health and money compared to b12 injections. Ive used methyl, hydroxy and cyano and they all work at elevating b12 serum and decreasing U/MMA-MCV-Homocysteine.

I give b12 shots to both my raw meat eating friends (2 of them) and my cooked meat eating friends as well as myself, Freelee and my vegan/raw vegan friends.

They work 1000% of the time.

My house mate in Australia eats rotten meat, maggots in dried chicken, oysters, local raw grass dairy etc for over a decade and in March this year STILL has low serum b12 and then he got me to inject him and his b12 levels are well over 1000 now.

Best book to read on the subject is 'Could it be B12?' by Sally Pacholok. A lot of raw fooders cant drop weight cos they are low in b12 and after following a course of injections, they lean right up and start packing on muscle/building cardio as long as they are living the lifestyle that allows that of course.

I took b12 supps as a meat eater as well. ALL my elite cycling buddies do b12 shots too. Look it up.

Ive done a few youtube vids on this subject too.

durianrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EVERYTHING else is a waste of time, health and
> money compared to b12 injections.
Great topic DR...maybe your Best. It should get some lively response.
I vote NO for B12 injections for myself......WY

Here's Dr. Brian Clement speaking on B12.
Our Bodies no longer manufacture B12 because of the way our Colons have evolved, and supplementation is necessary. He recommends Forte and Ocean Energy. He is against B12 injections.

[www.hippocrateshealthlifestyle.com]

Yes I will vote NO! on B-12 injections also, because common sense tells me too. Also it's morally wrong. I would never support the Pharmaceutical companies, it is so blatantly obvious that they are crooks. And these same group of people are the ones that are trying to take away our rights to use vitamin suppliments. And why would you go that way when you can buy subligual for a minute fraction of the price, duh. I feel sorry for anyone who is healthy and doing shots to gain a competetive edge and not trying to find another way to get more energy. Do the shots make you feel better and give you more energy? sure they do, and so do other drugs you can shove into your body by injection, but you wont catch me doing them.

What would people do if they had a car wreck and needed medical help? Use a coconut from china town to get a blood transfusion?

I agree, 99% of big pharma can go away, but people are throwing out the banana with the skin here.

I want to see Durianriders maggot-eating roommate , eat maggots. Next time he makes a video please.

Sounds interesting. I find the list of possible side effects o the injections rather worrying:
[vitamins.lovetoknow.com]
[www.ehow.com]

Sally Pacholok thinks that B12 deficiency is common. But I looked up the current papers in the peer-reviewed literature (which, unlike her book, goes through a rigorous process before being published) including from some international research meetings on the topic, and did not find such opinions, instead I found the statements that it is rare.

It seems to me that it all is a matter of guess work. We don't really know the real story.


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I went for a short trip to scientific databases and found that most recent published literature on the topic suggests an opinion against B12 injections:

Time for a rethink of vitamin B12 injections?
Journal of the New Zealand Medical Association, 15-April-2011, Vol 124 No 1332
Gael Mearns, Elaine Rush, Janet Rowan
[journal.nzma.org.nz]


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Thank you for those articles rawgosia!

I do hope Durianrider and friends give this a little (or a lot) more thought. It shouldn't be necessary to use a syringe for anything if a person is following a healthy raw vegan diet and supplementing orally with B12.

Here in the US, a prescription is required to obtain a vial of liquid B12 for injecting. I don't know if that's the case in Australia, but I'm guessing it is. Apart from whether or not it's wise to inject B12 in the first place, it's certainly never wise to share a prescription with one's friends, especially a prescription for something injectable.

I got a little worried about this and started looking for more. This is what I just found:

Long-Term Effects of B12 Shots:
[www.livestrong.com]

"Long-term use of vitamin B-12 shots may lead to kidney problems, according to Drugs.com. Excess B-12 is excreted by the kidneys. Excess vitamin B-12 deposits in the kidneys and damages kidney tubules, causing symptoms of renal failure. Patients with renal failure experience symptoms such as swelling of the body, problems breathing, coughing, shortness of breath, blood in urine, changes in mental status, high blood pressure, decreased urination and seizures."

"Vitamin B-12 shots may also cause liver damage, according to Drugs.com. B-12 is metabolized by the liver into by-products that can be excreted by the body. Excess vitamin B-12 is also stored in the liver, and prolonged exposure leads to damage of liver cells. Long-term use of B-12 causes more damage to liver cells and scarring. Liver failure occurs later on because scar tissue replaces healthy liver cells and the liver cannot perform its functions."

"Vitamin B-12 shots may promote blood clots to develop in the legs, according to MedlinePlus. Blood clots are dangerous because they block the flow of blood, which may cause organ failure due to lack of oxygenated blood. Blood clots in the legs may also dislodge and travel to the lungs, causing respiratory distress. Blood clots may also block the flow of blood to the heart and brain leading to heart attack and stroke."


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Troubling, very troubling.

Thank you so much rawgosia! I hope durianrider and friends - and athletes relying on B12 injections - are reading what you've posted!!!!!!!

There's nothing healthy about making yourself sick.

You are welcome. I only did a little bit of searching.

I would like to have some time to look at this issue closer.


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while watching this Vid [www.youtube.com] i was imediately made aware of the lack of sterility ... no gloves , no alcohol wipe of the needle or injection site , and the guy that just got injected touches the injection site with his bare hand

i hope nobody gets any serious infections from doing this .. a friend of mine nearly lost his leg due to lazy injection (of b12 and steroids) practices and got a bad blood infection that made him very sick

i think i did see what looked like some alcohol wipes on the table but the process wasnt shown so i hope to assume they wiped things off at some point ..

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2011 05:23PM by Jgunn.

Yes, interesting article Rawgosia, but it did say that direct injection of B12 would only be necessary if a person had malabsorption problems.

And yes, in Oz, a script is needed to obtain B12 amptules.

How can anyone have any credibility on a forum like this when they are regularily injecting themselves? This has to be the complete opposite of what we believe in. Is this an example of a healthy natural diet that you have to inject yourself with synthetic chemicals to make it work?

Just to cut to the chase, b-12 deficiency in the general population (primarily due to malabsorption) is a bit of a red herring for vegans who are more likely to suffer from malnutrition than the general population for b-12. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] The results from this prospective cohort study while not conclusive are suggestive. And as I posted previously and Jack Norris, a vegan RD, has indicated, [www.veganhealth.org], sublingual supplements are fine. No shots needed.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2011 06:20PM by pborst.

I will stick with b12 supplements as injections don't seem natural.

Where can I find methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin with NDC number so that my pharmacist can order it? I have a legal prescription for those shots but the pharmacist claims that he could not find it anywhere.

"Yes, interesting article Rawgosia, but it did say that direct injection of B12 would only be necessary if a person had malabsorption problems."

Actually geo, if you read the top article, it suggests that, even with malabsorption problems, oral supplementation is a workable and better solution.


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Rawgosia, article is about cyanocobalamin, raw food people only use methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin. Even doctors claim that methylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin are much easier on the liver.

If oral intake is enough, I would always vote for it. If B12 is really low, there is no time for experimentation...shots should be acceptable solution.

durianrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What would people do if they had a car wreck and
> needed medical help? Use a coconut from china town
> to get a blood transfusion?
>
> I agree, 99% of big pharma can go away, but people
> are throwing out the banana with the skin here.


I don't know what having a car accident has to do with being a B-12 addict? Only common sense tells you that some drugs are nessesary?

"Rawgosia, article is about cyanocobalamin, raw food people only use methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin. Even doctors claim that methylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin are much easier on the liver."

Just wanted to add a little comment on this, as I have been researching the literature on B12 since our discussion here. I have just found a number of articles about anaphylactic reaction after injecting B12. This includes hydroxocobalamin, not only cyanocobalamin. For example,

Anaphylactic reaction to hydroxycobalamin
Branco-Ferreira, M., Clode, M.H., Pereira-Barbosa, M.A., Palma-Carlos, A.G.
Allergy: European Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology
Volume 52, Issue 1, 1997, Pages 118-119

So it seems that one cannot generalize about the safety of B12 injections. Perhaps some people are OK, but others may not be. Vaccinations are advertised as generally safe too, but we all know that they are not safe in general and serious and fatal adverse reactions are documented. From what I read, oral supplementation does not carry such risks, and the recent studies strongly indicate that this is a very effective treatment, and hance a better alternative. For example,

Oral Vitamin B12 Replacement: An Effective Treatment for Vitamin B12 Deficiency After Total Gastrectomy in Gastric Cancer Patients
Ann Surg Oncol
Hyoung-Il Kim, MD1 et al
2011


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Thank you rawgosia for your research.

Just thought I'd add that this is all the more reason why people shouldn't be sharing their prescriptions!

Also, in regard to the title of this thread: There are no tricks to losing weight (if needed) and becoming healthy. The only way to do both is eat properly and exercise. And that's the happiest way too!

Tricks are for kids.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 10:31PM by suncloud.