i thought i would run the message by people here and see what you think


In an attempt to keep the community focused in succeeding on a low fat raw vegan lifestyle (based on 811 principles), we do not support the following posts/photos posted on the forum

posts/photos will be deleted without further notice so it's best not to bother uploading inappropriate pics/posts/photos/videos containing the following ingredients (these ingredients are commonly called "gourmet raw" which we do not recommend you eat)

* Cracao (the fruit is ok but not the seed)
* Vinegar of any description
* All fermented products such as kefir, kombucha, etc.
* Oils (why?)
* Garlic (neuro-toxin)
* honey, bee pollen (why honey?)
* Salt of any origin (why?)
* Seaweed of any kind (nori, arame, dulse, irish moss, algae etc.)
* Nama Shoyu/tamari/Bragg's liquid aminos
* Agave
* Animal products
* Nutritional yeast
* Sauerkraut
* Excessive use of nuts, badly combined fruits & fat combo's that lead to health challenges
* Gourmet raw dishes that we feel are not congruent with the low fat raw vegan lifestyle

We believe these substances are not food therefore we do not recommend the consumption of them nor do we desire to promote them. If you do have any photos containing the above mentioned ingredients could you please remove them to assist us in staying on target. We will be removing any photos/videos we deem inappropriate from the site.

P.s- We advise you to list the ingredients with every photo you upload as suspect photo's will be deleted and you banned.

life vs lifelessness

im confused .. is this from another community website?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Who came up with that list? Wow. And since when is this a low fat 811 forum?

freelee

life vs lifelessness

I think that if people here want to read what is posted on that site they'd already be over there visiting it. I personally couldn't care less what lists they write, honestly don't know why I should.

ETA don't they spam us with their junk on their own already?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2011 04:01AM by coco.

Diogenez's list comes from 30Bananas.

I agree re most things on the list, as I am Natural Hygiene-oriented. Do I use any of the things on the list (er - yes, sometimes!)

Diogenez, I'm not sure what the point was of posting this. It's true that the majority of people, even in the raw food world,are not Natural Hygienists. NH does take a radically different perspective. To invite discussion on such a large list is a bit ambitious - why don't you pick one substance and start a thread on that? Just a suggestion.

Or are you suggesting that a forum shouldn't have a list of 'banned' topics. It's all relative isn't it? I think THIS forum ban talk of eggs, dairy, meat, fish etc,doesn't it?

30Bananas forum is NH-ISH. (Not totally). Although I don't agree with everything the founders of 30Bananas say, I do defend their right to make exactly what rules they want to make for their forum. As, it IS their forum. And at least then everyone knows where they stand.

Edit - Also, your subject line is confusing. Did you mean 'not' rather than 'now'?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2011 07:42AM by debbietook.

Durianrider and his missus have become vile douchebags... I used to like them but have realised theyre just horrible insecure little people.

none of that stuff belongs in an 811 diet anyway so i dont see the problem. if i am 811 i am eating loads of fruit and greens for the most part, why would i want to see pics or vids of meals with those ingredients? there is no desire or need for them.

811 is influenced by Natural Hygiene, which definitely doesnt promote the use of those ingredients --- so whats the issue here? there isnt one.

811 is what it is and that forum doesnt need to celebrate others diets. youre either 811, striving to be, or youre not. i appreciate the forwardness.

yes not not now. yea i just thought it was interesting to make a rule like this to say hey you read this and if you get banned with out warning or reason you'd know why.

forced uniformity seems never so healthy.

ya no real issue i suppose. thanks for your replies

life vs lifelessness

Those are the rules over at 30bananasaday, which of course they are entitled to follow if that is their choice. Not much room for discussion over there though. My feeling is that we don't yet have all the answers for raw food diet, so discussion and research are still worthwhile.

Here is a link to an interesting article about Dr. Herbert Shelton, often considered a leader in the "Natural Hygeine" movement, who avoided cancer his whole life, but suffered from Parkinson's Disease for decades during his senior years. He was a great man who helped many people; but unfortunately, he just didn't know everything. No one can be expected to fill that bill (including the author of the following article of course).

[www.drfuhrman.com]

During Dr. Shelton's time, we didn't know so much about DHA (Omega 3 family). Now we know more. My point is: Discussion is a worthwhile component of any ongoing learning process. Of course discussion is not necessary whenever we already have all the answers - but no one does. There is always more to learn, and thank goodness! Because (IMO) that simple fact is the greatest beauty of life and the greatest beauty of being alive! (We are all Star Trek travelors who boldly go where no [person] has gone before)

The requirement for a reliable dietary iodine source might also be something traditionally overlooked in a Natural Hygeine diet.

In reply to Diogenes, I personally follow most of those rules, but I usually eat seaweed everyday (unless I'm fasting), and occasionally I eat fermented veggies and garlic. For DHA (omega 3 family), referred to in the above article, I eat my chia(!), which I love; and I eat other nuts/seeds as well in an attempt to acheive a balanced omega 6 : omega 3 ratio.

Speaking of seaweed, does anyone know if seaweed is traditionally taboo from Natural Hygeine, or is that a more recent development attributed to Doug Graham's writings? My sense of it is that seaweed was not mentioned previously in Natural Hygeine writings, simply because it's not a traditional food of Western "civilization". But does anyone have an older reference to it from a Natural Hygeine advocate?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2011 08:35PM by suncloud.

I am not sure what an excessive use of nuts. I actually pretty naturally follow much of the list. However I do use oil, seaweed and occationally some sea salt. I especially like the pink salt.

I have never much liked pickled foods or vinegar, even as a child without having such a list. I don't like the smell of garlic or onions. I used to eat nutritional yeast on advice that it had b-vitamins or what not. But did I ever enjoy it? No, not at all. Now I never touch it, because I know its not necessary now, and has some harmful effects.

I am rather surprised that alcohol is not on the list. Is it just assumed that a raw foodist wouldn't be interested in consuming them? Or some other reason why its not there? I guess it might be covered under no fermented products. However, one of Roxanne Klein's raw food books had suggested pairings of wine for gourmet raw vegan dishes. I think she also had some bad food combinations, also had a recipe for onion rings which was raw, but intended to look and taste something like deep fried onion rings. I thought that was pretty creative. Perhaps a must for people if they got cravings for certain non-raw foods. She used maple syrup in some recipes, not raw, but I think I could overlook that.

i am taken back by saying no bacteria, that is where b12 comes from maybe that is what they need b12 shoots i have never had a low b12 and i make my own Komubucha and KimChi.

def alcohol on the list makes sense

life vs lifelessness

In rainbow green live food cuisine, G cousens advocates nut milk kifir. But only for later stages of the suggested diets. Hes one that believes in the internal composting and staying away from bacteria, mold and yeast residues. So I guess nothing is absolute.

There are some other problems with the idea of absolutely abstaining from microbes. One is that the healthy gut will have flora growing there, an asortment of various bacteria and perhaps other microbes. Some friendly and maybe some that are not so friendly. Raw food will have some microbes on it, its unavoidable. Thats different from eating something aged or fermented, but in an absolute sense bacteria cannot be avoided.

Bacteria, molds, yeasts, fungus etc are all natural parts of a healthy soil and ecosystem. I am sure every plant will uptake residual products from these microbes. Natural produce that has been fertilized with natural materials seem more likely to actually have more of these residuals. It doesn't seem so harmful to me, if its from a healthy natural plant.

In the course of humanity, people have at times eaten the unthinkable. How did they do it and survive? Sure it might have been suboptimal and even perahps unpleasant, but it helped humanity survive. When dealing with absolutes it perhaps should be remembered that most of the history of humans have not had access to thought out writinges about food. Especially not suggestions based on science.

I understand and respect their rules. They have a forum for 80/10/10 lifestyle (or whatever they've changed it to), and they want to keep it that way.

HOWEVER, I think the focus on "no overts" over there is not necessarily in line with 80/10/10, Graham's suggestions in his book, etc.

i don't see Ginger there...

yea no absolutes. for sure. i have always been anti absolutist. one person says that itself is absolutist but i don't see that as a logical statement when you avoid trying to find the impossible extremism it leads to a radical relative moderation of sorts i suppose

life vs lifelessness



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2011 09:59AM by Diogenez.

Mislu: i was listing to Hygienists audio stuff i had from the originators and i recall they said don't add salt till after cooking.

life vs lifelessness

Like Debbie Took said, people who have a forum are entitled to set rules and guidelines in relation to their forum. Such guidelines may be taken as harsh or dogmatic by some people, but other people may see them as assisting the entire forum community by keeping discussions and posts on track with the ideals the forum community stands for.
As a follower of 80/10/10 and as a close student of Dr. Graham, the approach he recommends is to increase the percentage of whole, fresh, ripe, raw, organic fruits and vegetables in the diet. This can be at each meal, or over the course of each day, or both. The direction the individual is heading towards is more important than their speed. The direction in which Dr. Graham encourages people to move towards is to a diet that consists of whole, fresh, ripe, raw, organic plant foods (especially fruits and leafy greens) to the exclusion of other foods. He encourages a diet in which no less than 80% of the total calories come from simple carbohydrates, with no more than 10% of calories coming from either protein or fat. This is what the "80/10/10" concept stands for. As this is a support board in which a variety of different raw food diets are practiced and appreciated, it will be inevitable that some people will be in support of this approach, while others may be not encourage it.
I suggest the people here learn the information about nutrition for themselves, by studying the material and websites of the raw leaders that have been mentioned in this discussion thread, and then make their own conclusions based on the information. For those who want to try 80/10/10 as it is taught by Dr. Graham, following the guidelines of another raw leader at the same time can lead to confusion. There is plenty of support available for people about the raw diet as Dr. Graham teaches it in the material, articles and FAQs on the site www.foodnsport.com.

I hate Durianrider and Freelee. DR is aggressive and always wants to help people for free. Freelee is a hussy and dances in her bikini. Have you seen her latest video?

[durianrider.org]

Is this for real?

Luke Sartor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like Debbie Took said, people who have a forum are
> entitled to set rules and guidelines in relation
> to their forum. Such guidelines may be taken as
> harsh or dogmatic by some people, but other people
> may see them as assisting the entire forum
> community by keeping discussions and posts on
> track with the ideals the forum community stands
> for.
> As a follower of 80/10/10 and as a close student
> of Dr. Graham, the approach he recommends is to
> increase the percentage of whole, fresh, ripe,
> raw, organic fruits and vegetables in the diet.
> This can be at each meal, or over the course of
> each day, or both. The direction the individual is
> heading towards is more important than their
> speed. The direction in which Dr. Graham
> encourages people to move towards is to a diet
> that consists of whole, fresh, ripe, raw, organic
> plant foods (especially fruits and leafy greens)
> to the exclusion of other foods. He encourages a
> diet in which no less than 80% of the total
> calories come from simple carbohydrates, with no
> more than 10% of calories coming from either
> protein or fat. This is what the "80/10/10"
> concept stands for. As this is a support board in
> which a variety of different raw food diets are
> practiced and appreciated, it will be inevitable
> that some people will be in support of this
> approach, while others may be not encourage it.
> I suggest the people here learn the information
> about nutrition for themselves, by studying the
> material and websites of the raw leaders that have
> been mentioned in this discussion thread, and then
> make their own conclusions based on the
> information. For those who want to try 80/10/10 as
> it is taught by Dr. Graham, following the
> guidelines of another raw leader at the same time
> can lead to confusion. There is plenty of support
> available for people about the raw diet as Dr.
> Graham teaches it in the material, articles and
> FAQs on the site www.foodnsport.com.

HeavenHands,

That is an accurate summation of "80/10/10," if that's what you're asking . . .

yea it is great i wish i knew more hot chicks with bodies like freelee that is why i tell as many women about 801010 as possible

life vs lifelessness

So what's the 80/10/10 stand for? I was kind of digging David Wolfe's model a little bit. What's it 303030?

No I was asking if it's every bit as cultish and weird as it sounds or if he's doing a satire of the cultish/weird aspect of 80/10/10.

HeavenHands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this for real?
>
> Luke Sartor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Like Debbie Took said, people who have a forum
> are
> > entitled to set rules and guidelines in
> relation
> > to their forum. Such guidelines may be taken as
> > harsh or dogmatic by some people, but other
> people
> > may see them as assisting the entire forum
> > community by keeping discussions and posts on
> > track with the ideals the forum community
> stands
> > for.
> > As a follower of 80/10/10 and as a close
> student
> > of Dr. Graham, the approach he recommends is to
> > increase the percentage of whole, fresh, ripe,
> > raw, organic fruits and vegetables in the diet.
> > This can be at each meal, or over the course of
> > each day, or both. The direction the individual
> is
> > heading towards is more important than their
> > speed. The direction in which Dr. Graham
> > encourages people to move towards is to a diet
> > that consists of whole, fresh, ripe, raw,
> organic
> > plant foods (especially fruits and leafy
> greens)
> > to the exclusion of other foods. He encourages
> a
> > diet in which no less than 80% of the total
> > calories come from simple carbohydrates, with
> no
> > more than 10% of calories coming from either
> > protein or fat. This is what the "80/10/10"
> > concept stands for. As this is a support board
> in
> > which a variety of different raw food diets are
> > practiced and appreciated, it will be
> inevitable
> > that some people will be in support of this
> > approach, while others may be not encourage it.
> > I suggest the people here learn the information
> > about nutrition for themselves, by studying the
> > material and websites of the raw leaders that
> have
> > been mentioned in this discussion thread, and
> then
> > make their own conclusions based on the
> > information. For those who want to try 80/10/10
> as
> > it is taught by Dr. Graham, following the
> > guidelines of another raw leader at the same
> time
> > can lead to confusion. There is plenty of
> support
> > available for people about the raw diet as Dr.
> > Graham teaches it in the material, articles and
> > FAQs on the site www.foodnsport.com.

Be sure to tell them about breast implants too.

Diogenez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yea it is great i wish i knew more hot chicks with
> bodies like freelee that is why i tell as many
> women about 801010 as possible

HeavenHands, you forgot to mention B12 injections. A real advertisment for natural healthy living - breast implants and injecting yourself like a junkie.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 03:39AM by HeavenHands.

i heard too that the fruit is okay but not the seed

of cacao

that is

i wish i could eat the fruit though

where can i get one?

looks and seems and sounds yummy

*shrugs* it's their forum. I certainly have no desire to go there.

People are extremely vicious about Freelee. If those making judgements about her implants took 5 seconds to read when and why she got them, you'd realise how awful you sound judging her.

So why are they judging other people? If you dish it out you have to be prepared to take it.