I remember reading a book by George Malkamus' wife where she quotes a doctor who said that a pound of juiced carrots is the equivalent of a bottle of calcium tablets or something to that effect. In any case, I dislike the waste in juice, as well, not to mention the cleanup (although the Omega 8006 is very good in that regard). I don't think you'd have to juice every day or even spend that much money. Once or twice a week a green juice with a base of organic celery and cukes, along with a head of celery seems like it would be sufficient, maybe a beet and some organic carrots thrown into the mix...

Why not just eat the raw food. Water in the fruits and veggies is a critical element, if you cannot sustain yourself on raw fruits and veggies something else is probably not working well within your system, that needed to be corrected, vitamins can be useful in the short term or while we are traveling but creating a dependency on vitamins is the wrong approach.

It may be the wrong approach for YOU but I highly doubt you are qualified to determine that for others.

This area has been way over-farmed leaving the soil nutritionally depleted, and it's not just this area for which that is the case. Supplementing with a concentrated food source is a daily practice for us and it will remain so. We couldn't possibly eat all the food we need daily to meet all our nutritional needs, especially the children. When I read about people eating a dozen bananas or drinking a 2 litre smoothie I just can't imagine it, I don't have that sort of appetite and that would leave me so uncomfortably full. Whole food supplements are far more reasonable for me.
We must all choose how we find our own health ideals, no one solution will work for everyone.

And you are qualified to teach us that approach.
The nature of a forum is to present different views, and that is the way life is.
Your views are qualified but others are not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 07:57PM by RawPracticalist.

You will notice that I present my views as my own personal experience rather than a definitive statement of fact.

ie "Whole food supplements are far more reasonable FOR ME.
We must all choose how we find our own health ideals, no one solution will work for everyone."

Rather than statements like "vitamins can be useful in the short term or while we are traveling but creating a dependency on vitamins IS the WRONG approach."

Nowhere do I profess to know the answer for anyone but myself. Do you see the difference there? The addition of terms like "in my opinion" or "in my experience" are highly valuable and much more inclusive than telling people what IS Right or Wrong when that's only your opinion.

Handing out opinion and advice as though it's fact is not the same as "presenting views".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 08:11PM by coco.

How do you judge others people statement are definitive, when others make statement you said they have no proof, but you wrote that the soil is depleted without presenting any link or proof of that statement, it seems you are offended when people disagree with you, this is just a forum, it is not war. It seems like coco is on the look out for people you will disagree with her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 08:20PM by RawPracticalist.

If you need proof that the soil in this area is depleted you are welcome to look it up, it is amply documented. Southern Ontario, also known as "The Goiter Belt". I did not think it necessary to link to something so well known and understood (that's like providing a link to prove that grass is green).

Judging a statement as definitive is easy. The first example presents opinion as fact, the second example presents it as what it is, personal opinion.
"Vitamins ARE bad for you."
"I don't think vitamins are good."

You don't seem to be offering advice or experience or even opinion but set on telling those who choose to use whole food supplements how "wrong" they are. Pft. Thanks anyhow.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 08:26PM by coco.

It is amply documented that vitamins do no work.
Whole food supplements now came out we a new way of producing vitamins, where is the paper that explain the new approach works, where are the independent studies on the effectiveness of that approach or is a new commercial trick?

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is amply documented that vitamins do no work.


Really? Prove it. I don't see any links or evidence here, just your personal opinion stated as though it is fact. There are PLENTY of studies showing that vitamins do in fact work. For example: if one is low in iron and takes a supplement, even a synthetic one, iron goes up.
I don't personally find synthetic vitamins ideal because I believe (notice how this is presented as opinion and not fact) the body doesn't process them as well as whole foods. I choose something different for myself but I'm not about to go around telling people who take vitamins how wrong they are for doing it, that's only my opinion and has zero value to others. They all have their own opinion and if all I have to counter that is factless blah blah blah I don't have anything useful at all.

Raw whole food supplements are simply dehydrated whole food and there is plenty of documentation showing how the body processes those foods. If you choose something else for yourself that is all fine and well but you have nothing on which to base the statement that they are not useful to others or that they "do no work".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 09:10PM by coco.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is amply documented that vitamins do no work.

Well to start we all know that is not true, there are numerous papers on the effectiveness of vitamin D supplementation alone for various health conditions, let alone vitamin C and so on.

No commercial trick, wholefood based supplements are just made up of of various herbs, fruit and vegetable extracts and so on. I prefer this way as it is closer to its natural state and comes with the synergistic and symbiotic nutrients. Acerola cherry extract for example yields about 270mg of naturally occuring vitamin C per teaspoon, i had big success using acerola cherry and amla when i had severe adrenal fatigue. Even eating masses of vitamin C rich fruit and vegetables didn't provide the benefits that my mixture above did.

Not everyone is in ideal health either, there are many supplements including vitamins that are effective for a number of conditions. What about someone with a genetic condition such as pyroluria that needs to supplement vitamin B6 and Zinc for life ?.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 09:17PM by powerlifer.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RawPracticalist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is amply documented that vitamins do no
> work.
>
>
> Really? Prove it. I don't see any links or
> evidence here, just your personal opinion stated
> as though it is fact. There are PLENTY of studies
> showing that vitamins do in fact work. For
> example: if one is low in iron and takes a
> supplement, even a synthetic one, iron goes up.
> I don't personally find synthetic vitamins ideal
> because I believe (notice how this is presented as
> opinion and not fact) the body doesn't process
> them as well as whole foods. I choose something
> different for myself but I'm not about to go
> around telling people who take vitamins how wrong
> they are for doing it, that's only my opinion and
> has zero value to others. They all have their own
> opinion and if all I have to counter that is
> factless blah blah blah I don't have anything
> useful at all.
>
> Raw whole food supplements are simply dehydrated
> whole food and there is plenty of documentation
> showing how the body processes those foods. If you
> choose something else for yourself that is all
> fine and well but you have nothing on which to
> base the statement that they are not useful to
> others or that they "do no work".

But where is your proof that the soil is depleted????????????????????????????????

You can easily look that up on your own, that is common knowledge with tons of documentation. I could not possibly sift through the hundreds of thousands of searchable links for you. The Great Lakes Region aka The Goiter Belt ~ so called because it is so devoid of iodine. This is why salt has iodine added to it. Really, I find it hard to believe you don't know this already and aren't just being difficult on purpose to distract from the fact that your arguement has no teeth.

luvyuu,

I take their multivit for women; it's veg but don't know for sure if it's vegan. It is expensive, but sometimes the company issues coupons for a few bucks off here and there. It helps to join a frequent shopper program that offers additional discounts at one's health food store. Hope that's available to you where you shop


powerlifer,

When Garden of Life released their raw supplement line, a companion book explaining the science behind whole food vitamins was sold along with them:
[www.thevitamincode.com]

What is wrong with real natural raw living food?
Is it growing it the problem, no, we have sprout, and indoor gardening where you can control the soil you use, we have organic farming.
[www.markbraunstein.org]
I grow indoor sprouts and microgreens, there is no need for vitamins, the greens have ample supply of vitamins in natural form. Vitamins have no water.
The soil is depleted argument is false, you can make your own soil



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 09:54PM by RawPracticalist.

There is no need for vitamins for YOU. Sigh.

RawPracticalist,

Here ya go:

[www.scientificamerican.com]

[www.soils.wisc.edu]

[ddr.nal.usda.gov]

You may find other didactic PDFs on the intertubes, but a word of warning: you shall have to wade through a couple of pages of Google listings to get past the secondary, non-disinterested sources

You can make your own soil
I have too many greens and wheatgrass growing in my house, I do not need vitamins, you are preaching the wrong approach to nutrition
This cheaper and healthier than vitamins [www.amazon.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 09:58PM by RawPracticalist.

Uh, that is not practical, Practicalist, for most of us. Unless I misunderstand you? . . .

Quote

you are preaching the wrong approach to nutrition

I get that you are passionate about this subject, but do you really not see how rigid this is? You cannot possibly know concretely that this is the wrong approach for all humans alive at this time. Or even on these Forums today!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:02PM by Tamukha.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can make your own soil


Yes. That is so much easier, more affordable and more practical than taking a carefully researched, specially formulated, raw vegan whole food supplement. Thanks for that suggestion, I'll go about making my own soil and spreading it around the hundreds of thousands of acres of farm land hearabouts where our food is grown. Every year. Yup, gettin' right on that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:07PM by coco.

Like i said what about those who suffer from health conditions in which they benefit from vitamin or mineral supplementation ?.

Now that i am at peak health i could easily get away with just the nutrition i get from my diet, but there was once a time when i wasn't in that great health at all, poor digestion, adrenal fatigue, chronic stress, heavy metal toxicity, alcoholism all made my demands for nutrients much higher, so high that i couldn't even replace them with the best of diets i was following.

Supplements have there times and places.

Thanks Tamukha for the link also.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:02PM by powerlifer.

Tamukha
The soil being depleted is the wrong approach, you can make your own soil
Indoor gardening is practical, children loves it, you have food growing in your house even your room, it is fresh, living, natural.

Dude, I have a job, LOL! That sort of life sounds interesting, but not at all practic[ab]le for most of us. So thank goodness we have other options

You're welcome, powerlifer

Should people be encouraged to buy more vitamins or to grow natural, living food?
Vitamins may be good in some situations but there is better and it is not expensive to get it done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:14PM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should people be encouraged to buy more vitamins
> or to grow natural, living food?

That wasn't my question though, there are people who have health conditions that benefit from vitamin supplementation. Focus should always be on having a robust sound diet first of all of course, but that doesn't always mean its going to be enough for everyone.

It is thought that up to 10% of the population may suffer from the genetic condition Pyroluria, these people have to supplement vitamin B6 and Zinc for life, try telling these people they aren't aloud supplementation.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:17PM by powerlifer.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should people be encouraged to buy more vitamins
> or to grow natural, living food?


People should be supported in doing the best they can for themselves, even when it falls short of your own personal ideals.

There is no space here to grow any substantial amount of food. I can sprout a couple of jars of things in our wee kitchen but that doesn't mean I can make the kids eat it, lol.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:18PM by coco.

Do we know for sure if the herbs and veggies that are used in the making of the vitamins are not grown in depleted soil?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 10:32PM by RawPracticalist.

Even if they are grown in nutritionally depleted soild they are dried and therefore a concentrated source of nutrients.
Plants grown in nutritionally depleted soil are not void of nutrients, they simply don't have the level they once did and so an amount of food that might once have been nutritionally adequate no longer is so. Eating more is one solution but I don't have the appetite to eat twice as much food as I normally do. Large amounts of juice might do it but I would rather consume dried plants that are missing their water rather than plant juice that's missing all it's fiber. Dried, concentrated plant matter works very well for me, added to a smoothie or taken with meals, I have the time, the money and the fridge space to accomodate that dietary bump.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do we know for sure if the herbs and veggies that
> are used in the making of the vitamins are not
> grown in depleted soil?

Most of them go through vigorous batch testing to verify their nutritional content.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

If vitamins were so needed why is that none of the raw food gurus mention them in their research and publication?

Douglas Graham
Brian Clement
Gabriel Cousens
Storm Talifero
David Wolfe

I am missing something?