flipperjan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer the link is there on my post

> Actually Powerlifer - I don't think you need to
> supplement if you are a healthy 100% vegan as you
> can eat marmite for B12 etc ; which i know is a
> kind of supplementation just not in pill form.
> It's just being 100% raw that causes all the
> difficulties.

Sure fortified foods suffice for many and its where i get the bulk of my intake for these vitamins(D/B12), but as you say when you are 100% raw these fortified foods are not accepted, so a warning that these vitamins such as D and B12 are not found in the food they are eating is a wise one.

People hear these gurus and suddenly think they don't need these essential nutrients, surely everything is in raw food right or it wouldn't be the perfect panacea its made out to be ?. Thats not a dig at raw food or even veganism, i am vegan myself and supplement. I just think alot of the information that comes out these guru mouths is complete crap and dangerous to new-comers.

Completely missed that link flipperjan, seems like some synergistic nutrients that aid irons absorbtion and from what ive seen they add that probiotic/enzyme and fruit/veg blend to just about everyone of their supplements. At 20mg per serving its just about completely pointless being there lol, supplement makers often add ingredients like that too make the supplement look like its full of greatness but at 20mg per serving like i say you are getting very very little even if they have listed about 30 different fruits and vegetables lol.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 09:28AM by powerlifer.

Ah I wondered about the amount at 20mg - if it was going to be enough. My current supplement is 200mg three times a day. I take it for a few months - get my iron levels up to a level where I can function, stop taking the pills and they plummet again.

Do you think that if I get my iron levels up with the ferrous sulphate I will be able to hold them at that level with the garden of life pills? I guess I could try it!!

Sorry i wasn't commenting on the amount of iron in the supplement but the fruit vegetable additional blend it had. Worth a try unless your iron levels are seriously low then i would recommend a more proven option.

It contains vitamin C which will aid the iron's absorbtion. I can't remember if you said your iron levels were chronically low, did you have any result with supporting digestion and increasing stomach acid if so ?.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Powerlifer, Jan, this is the direction that I'm headed in with low iron. Focus on getting digestive fire increased with bitters, liver tonics and adaptogens. I will probably always supplement iron as my own personal physical chemistry seems to need that (no matter what my diet is, even eating a high red meat diet did not alleviate my deficiency). A little dietary tweaking as well, easier done now that spring is on the way. This summer I have plans to dehydrate many wild foods and berries and powder them to make a supplement powder of my own for use in the lean months of winter. That should help greatly.
There is just no way for me to validate a 100% raw vegan diet for us, close but not 100%. There are some minerals and other things that the kids absolutely need for brain development etc that are available from non-vegan (still vegetarian) sources and I would much rather use food than a supplement. I have analysed their diet very carefully to arrive at this conclusion. It is fine for me to experiment on myself with eliminating this or that and seeing how it affects my health but it's unconscionable to do that to my kids. They are not a science experiment. Wasn't it Shazzy who posted an impassioned plea to raw vegan parents not to be so caught up in the dogma of the diet that they neglected the nutritional needs of their kids? Ya, that really affected me. She was absolutely right. I'm not going to wait and see if they develop a B12 deficiency (once you know you're deficient the damage, often irreversable neurological damage, has already been done) or have their bones and teeth develop in a weakened state due to D3 shortage. How to you appologize to your children for an inadequate skeleton and all the associated issues they will face throughout their lives? What about their brains too, having them develop short of their potential because I denied them fat or essential minerals? No, I don't think I'll be doing that because of some high ideals. The reality of it is that an unsupplmented 100% raw vegan diet is not appropriate for everyone and that is simply that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 01:28PM by coco.

Well said coco, a child is also not likely to be able to eat 1000's of calories and large volumes of food just to get sufficient nutrition which they could get more easily with denser calorie sources per weight, which means they will likely be lacking in some areas unless they have a appetite for large amounts of raw food. Many conditionally essential amino acids are important for growing children.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

There is another name for all of that, unnecessary suffering. I need herb x, herb y, vitamin z



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 02:04PM by madinah.

What about clover and broccoli sprouts? They provide megadoses of vitamins and minerals in a little package Plus cheap and living!

Clover actually doesn't have that much nutrition in it, it's a nice little salad green but you'd have to eat a mixing bowl full for it to have much impact. I like alfalfa and clover sprouts myself (they are nearly identical nutritionally speaking) but the kids aren't big fans.
Broccoli sprouts are a power house, very nutritionally dense. They are a bit pricer than other seeds and can be fussy to sprout too. And they're spicy. Again, I love them but the kids... not so much.
Still no D3, B12, etc there though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 06:09PM by coco.

Storm, we don't get enough sun here to make supplementation unnecessary I'm afraid.
And I've read studies about gut production of B12 indicating it's too low down in the digestive tract to be usefully absorbed in the quantities needed. I find it highly unlikely that we're getting it from air or through the bottoms of our feet. Even if I thought that likely I wouldn't risk a deficiency in my kids as an experiment.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 01:58AM by coco.

One of the most under-rated all in one wholefood powder products is Enerfood - [www.amlaberry.co.uk]

It does taste pretty horrible just in water, i imagine it tastes better in juice but i prefer to just take in water. Really helped my friend significantly lower her heavy metal toxicity level by more than half according to tests. Very rich in B vitamins and minerals also.

I've been looking for a well rounded multi & I have come across New Chapter Organics. They are reviewed as being one of the best. Any feedback on them from you guys?

I'm trying to find a brand that is totally "clean" & I see that is hard to find - one that doesn't include magnesium stearate, or produced using hexane, etc.

Edit - I see they contain maltodextrin; bad or good?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 10:37AM by veganrawdude.

Dr Mercola's Wholefood Multi-vitamin is pretty good as far as the good forms of vitamins/minerals plus extras.

What new chapter multi is it they have a few different veganrawdude?

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

I still do not understand the vitamin thing, with spring and summer coming there are so many foods waiting to be eaten. There is no vitamin out there that can surpass the nutrients and water they bring to your body. Do not waste your money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 03:21PM by madinah.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still do not understand the vitamin thing, with
> spring and summer coming there are so many foods
> waiting to be eaten. There is no vitamin out there
> that can surpass the nutrients and water they
> bring to your body. Do not waste your money.

Then you have missed the many vital points ive made above. Not everyone is healthy enough to just rely on food. Ill say again but what about those who come to visit this forum who are not in the best health and could benefit from extra supplementation of vitamins. Those with poor assimilation/digestive disorders, stress based disorders such as adrenal fatigue etc etc. Should these people just rely on food and remain critically low in vital nutrients ?.

Diet is great but it certainly is no panacea cure all, especially for those with health conditions that can benefit from supplementation of various vitamins and minerals.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 04:49PM by powerlifer.

I've seen raw foodists say that vitamins are not needed, and at the same time recommend B12 injections because they do it.

Other times they may say that blending is not good because it does not happen in nature, and then go ahead and recommend juicing because they do it.

It would seem that it is about what they want to justify. Nobody tells them their flaw thinking.

powelifer
You are making a godd point, there are people or situations where vitamins may be needed.
But it seems like the people on the forum using them are long time raw foodists, are we saying the dependency on vitamins never get resolved, the problem never solved? We never return to the natural state, natural health equilibrium

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powelifer
> You are making a godd point, there are people or
> situations where vitamins may be needed.
> But it seems like the people on the forum using
> them are long time raw foodists, are we saying the
> dependency on vitamins never get resolved, the
> problem never solved? We never return to the
> natural state, natural health equilibrium

Equally as good counter point, even though im not 100% raw and never will be again, personally the only synthetic vitamins i use these days are vitamin D if i don't manage to get out in the sun/poor sunlight is a regular occurance here in the UK and vitamin B12 as a vegan i have no reliable dietary source.

Some wish to take a multi-vitamin/mineral as a "insurance package" just incase they are missing anything in their diet. In this case i prefer to just use a wholefood source such as mixing chlorella, spirulina, seaweeds, nettle leaf etc and at the very least i am getting a mix of nutrients in a natural/wholefood form that i may not be regularly exposing myself too such as with seaweed being one of the best trace element sources. Each of those 4 i have mentioned have a wealth of studies between them regarding their various health benefits such as improving immunity, lowering caridovascular disease, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, hepatoprotective/supportive and so on.

I guess what i mean is that these kind of things should be tailored to your needs. Do i need the above extra wholefood powders now that i am well and eating a varied healthy diet, probably not. But do i feel better for taking them, increased energy and better recovery from workouts, so i am going to stick with whats working. Same goes for various tonic/adaptogenic or liver support herbs which i take semi-regularly.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 06:45PM by powerlifer.

madinah,

I politely opine that there is no such thing as a "natural state" to which we can return with proper diet. Close to it is attainable, but consider how much is out of our control. This life is filled with all kinds of strange toxic effluvia that are man made and didn't exist two generations ago, for example. Were we all living on a new planet with no human technology, I'd wager a natural state of health would be the norm. Of course, we wouldn't be on here discussing this 'cos: a.) we'd all be healthy, and b.) pooters wouldn't exist



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 07:02PM by Tamukha.

powerlifer
Thanks for the info. I will have some of my SAD family members with health issues try these raw vitamins. For myself, I am fine with my greens and sprouts but may add some blue green algae as recommended by Brian Clement

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer
> Thanks for the info. I will have some of my SAD
> family members with health issues try these raw
> vitamins. For myself, I am fine with my greens and
> sprouts but may add some blue green algae as
> recommended by Brian Clement

Not a prob Madinah .

Aslong as its not the klamath lake algae that BC recommends, which contains toxic microcystins which can damage the liver and nervous system.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Herbs are often best taken away from food as many of the active constitutes can blocked for absorption by other nutrients.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Mercola's Wholefood Multi-vitamin is pretty
> good as far as the good forms of vitamins/minerals
> plus extras.
>
> What new chapter multi is it they have a few
> different veganrawdude?
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

It looks as if all the NC line contains "organic maltodextrin". Whether or not this is a deciding factor for me - I don't know.

But looking at the label closer, I see it also contains lac resin.

I think I'll pass on New Chapter...

Coco, I hate to push sprouts but what about a variety of them, especially in a juice if the kids don't care for them? Maybe alfalfa, clover, adzuki juiced with other veggies? I am surprised that you say clover isn't high in nutrients. I thought all sprouts are automatically nutritious. In any case, I know people warn against too much alfalfa, so that's why I mentioned clover. Of course there's also sunflower and even beet sprouts. They looked so cool, although I didn't get a chance to eat them.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Mercola's Wholefood Multi-vitamin is pretty good as far as the good forms of vitamins/minerals plus extras.

I've been taking Dr. Mercola's Chlorella. It is a Whole Food, but I've seen it referred to as a Vitamin.
My mouth dropped open when I saw this clip of Dr. Mercola explaining what he eats for Breakfast. He didn't seem to have any Shame at all......WY

[www.youtube.com]

WheatgrassYogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dr Mercola's Wholefood Multi-vitamin is pretty
> good as far as the good forms of vitamins/minerals
> plus extras.
>
> I've been taking Dr. Mercola's Chlorella. It is a
> Whole Food, but I've seen it referred to as a
> Vitamin.
> My mouth dropped open when I saw this clip of Dr.
> Mercola explaining what he eats for Breakfast. He
> didn't seem to have any Shame at all......WY
>
> [www.youtube.com]

Ugh - that is disgusting. Raw milk & eggs? And I thought I was doing bad sneaking snack cakes once in awhile.

It is very common with raw food gurus many preach things they do not practice

Sunflower sprouts, or baby greens as they're called, are my favourite. Beet sprouts are lovely too, really nice. But no, the kids really don't like sprouts. They are quite strong in smoothies and juice too, hard to disguise at a percentage that would make any difference.
It's not that alfalfa and clover don't have nutrients, they do, they are just not as packed with them as other, denser sprouts like sunflower, buckwheat, etc.
Have you ever had corn sprouts? Oh man, so horrible. Onion and garlic sprouts are nice though, I liked kamut, fenugreek, and pea shoots.
Wish I have a bigger kitchen, more time, and a family who wanted to eat baby greens and sproutlings. Sigh.



banana who Wrote:
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> Coco, I hate to push sprouts but what about a
> variety of them, especially in a juice if the kids
> don't care for them? Maybe alfalfa, clover, adzuki
> juiced with other veggies? I am surprised that you
> say clover isn't high in nutrients. I thought all
> sprouts are automatically nutritious. In any case,
> I know people warn against too much alfalfa, so
> that's why I mentioned clover. Of course there's
> also sunflower and even beet sprouts. They looked
> so cool, although I didn't get a chance to eat
> them.

I've never eaten sunflower sprouts. I have heard that they're good but I keep forgetting how to sprout them (assuming I need the ones in their hulls and soil but cannot recall). If it requires dirt, I probably wouldn't bother. But beet sprouts sound intriguing. I did try onion sprouts a few times but never again. Way too strong for me!

The beet sprouts and the SF were both soil grown. It is a big commitment to set up for those, shelving, soil, lights, there is a lot of moisture from the watering, etc. It's not something that I could do in our small kitchen with the hardwood floor, lol.