Paul, you unwittingly gave yourself away when you mentioned FB I never knew that some of you communicate that way...As for PMs, I can tell when people are doing it because they tend to arrive at the same time on the forum, act in a similar way to certain people, etc. You call it high school insecurity, but I think it's just off-putting. No one likes to feel on the outside, no matter what the age. You seem like a sensitive person so perhaps you should put yourself in others' shoes...

I remember one particular time when several active members suddenly left and "coincidentally" came back one after the other on the same day. LOL

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul, you unwittingly gave yourself away when you
> mentioned FB

Nothing was unwitted, it was and is conscious. You have a problem with Facebook?


I never knew that some of you
> communicate that way...A

So what? what is "some of you" and why does if we make friendships does it threaten you so much? again. you can make friendships until your heart's desire or turtleshell.. that's your choice.


s for PMs, I can tell when
> people are doing it because they tend to arrive at
> the same time on the forum, act in a similar way
> to certain people, etc. You call it high school
> insecurity, but I think it's just off-putting. No
> one likes to feel on the outside, no matter what
> the age. You seem like a sensitive person so
> perhaps you should put yourself in others'
> shoes...

Banana Who, you should never "should" me. have I ever "should" you? please tell me when (apart from now which is in response)?

>
> I remember one particular time when several active
> members suddenly left and "coincidentally" came
> back one after the other on the same day. LOL


Heretofore, you and I have been friends, and I haven't given it a moment's notice. I have just accepted on faith that this was the case. If you are reconsidering perhaps it is better that you PM me than consider any distractions from other members. You know where to find me.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 09:17PM by pborst.

Paul, excuse me but you react so quickly to everything. Do I have a problem with FB? YES! But that isn't the point. I am tired of reading that there's no clique on here and then you talk about FB. No one contacted me about visiting them on FB! Boo-effing-who, I get it. But it shows that yes, there is a little inner circle of people who PM each other frequently, etc.

When Kid Raw left, I could tell that some of the regulars were giving me the cold shoulder. As bad as it felt, I refused to allow other people to intimidate me or make me feel unwanted. So I have continued. But I agree with Heavens Hands that there is a clique. Sorry if you refuse to admit it or think I'm being adolescent but woot, there it is...

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul, excuse me but you react so quickly to
> everything. Do I have a problem with FB? YES!

Why? If I make a friendship with someone on this board, it's none of your business. It is none of your personal business about how I communicate with members of this forum. ok. get over it.


But
> that isn't the point. I am tired of reading that
> there's no clique on here and then you talk about
> FB. No one contacted me about visiting them on FB!

And you are blaming me for your lack of social contacts. Just a quick reality check,, um why are we doing this in public? It seems more appropriate for PM so I will ask you again, politely... take it to PMs before I cut out.


> Boo-effing-who, I get it. But it shows that yes,
> there is a little inner circle of people who PM
> each other frequently, etc.

Not really. Most of my talk is to either to people who have already left the board and/or who monitor it. My contact with Geo, Tamara, Prana, and others are pretty much on the board. so your perception and my reality are in a little bit of a disconect. There is no inner circle. Or at least if there is, I'm not in it.

Paul

> When Kid Raw left, I could tell that some of the
> regulars were giving me the cold shoulder. As bad
> as it felt, I refused to allow other people to
> intimidate me or make me feel unwanted. So I have
> continued. But I agree with Heavens Hands that
> there is a clique. Sorry if you refuse to admit it
> or think I'm being adolescent but woot, there it
> is...

I never said your were being adolescent. Don't put words into my mouth. All the same if you have reconsidered our friendship, I will consider it done. best to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 09:55PM by pborst.

I don't remember kid raw even though I vaguely recall that name. I'm sorry, I'm so terrible with names. In real life too. I have to make a conscious effort to notice who is posting what on the internet, mostly I just read the dialogue.
I'm not FB friends with many people outside of my actual relatives and real life friends. There are only a couple I haven't met in the flesh and they have become close via telephone and snail mail. I find all the cross over completely exhausting to be honest. I don't enjoy that website and am in the process of deleting everything there and closing that account. I made the mistake of purchasing a domain name and starting a blog that I'll be doing away with as well. As with the destashing and minimization in my home and study, so am I slowing dismantling my online existance. Makes sense since we're thinking of moving to a cave in the woods . Then even if someone wants to tell me my house in on fire they'll have to actually come and visit me to do it.

Paul, no offense but you are not the center of the Universe I wasn't directing this toward you specifically.

"Get over it?" I never encouraged PMs precisely because I am not comfortable talking behind other people's "backs" whilst posting in the forum. So I actually prefer hashing everything out in public.

You come across as very touchy, dude. It's truly not that serious. Instead of getting so emotional about it, why not just take your own advice and get over it?

Coco, if you ever find a way to dismantle your FB, please let me know. I have a phony one (just to look up people in high school without acutally having to contact them, LOL) but have found it next to impossible to delete. I don't know if you can I would NEVER create a real one! They are very invasive and if you value your privacy, do NOT trust FB! I have been able to get into people's photo albums via their contacts, plus they sometimes have security lapses and I read someone's wall who I am sure never intended to make it public. It's a nightmare, IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 10:06PM by banana who.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul, no offense but you are not the center of the
> Universe I wasn't directing this toward you
> specifically.

Seemed pretty specific. I have enough humility to know that I am not the center of the universe and enough god damn common sense that your past posts were personally directed. Thank you very much.

>
> "Get over it?" I never encouraged PMs precisely
> because I am not comfortable talking behind other
> people's "backs" whilst posting in the forum. So I
> actually prefer hashing everything out in public.

PMs are for people who are intelligent enough to know they have something personal to say to the people they have issues with that are not appropriate for the general membership. Only a fool fights in a burning barn. G'day BW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 10:17PM by pborst.

Good Grief -

What the heck is this all about. I am new here so I guess I missed something along the way. Why all the fighting? Isn't this simply a "food forum", nothing more, nothing less?

I've never seen this troll attack behaviour on other forums, or the need to "call them out". Most posters simply ignore them & they end up fizzling out on their own.

If there is an inner circle on here & I get the impression that there is, well...I want NO parts of it. No FB either...forget it - it's all rubbish.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul, you unwittingly gave yourself away when you
> mentioned FB I never knew that some of you
> communicate that way...As for PMs, I can tell when
> people are doing it because they tend to arrive at
> the same time on the forum, act in a similar way
> to certain people, etc. You call it high school
> insecurity, but I think it's just off-putting. No
> one likes to feel on the outside, no matter what
> the age. You seem like a sensitive person so
> perhaps you should put yourself in others'
> shoes...
>
> I remember one particular time when several active
> members suddenly left and "coincidentally" came
> back one after the other on the same day. LOL


Banana who - I like you

read my post - I'm definently not going to "fit in" here, I guess...at least not with the "in" crowd, whoever that may be...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 10:16PM by veganrawdude.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't remember kid raw even though I vaguely
> recall that name. I'm sorry, I'm so terrible with
> names. In real life too. I have to make a
> conscious effort to notice who is posting what on
> the internet, mostly I just read the dialogue.
> I'm not FB friends with many people outside of my
> actual relatives and real life friends. There are
> only a couple I haven't met in the flesh and they
> have become close via telephone and snail mail. I
> find all the cross over completely exhausting to
> be honest. I don't enjoy that website and am in
> the process of deleting everything there and
> closing that account. I made the mistake of
> purchasing a domain name and starting a blog that
> I'll be doing away with as well. As with the
> destashing and minimization in my home and study,
> so am I slowing dismantling my online existance.
> Makes sense since we're thinking of moving to a
> cave in the woods . Then even if someone wants
> to tell me my house in on fire they'll have to
> actually come and visit me to do it.


Coco, Kid Raw was the woman who was conservative and rubbed some people on here the wrong way. I think it was wrong that she was basically run out of here. I didn't share many of her views but she added to the discussion and I don't think it was cool to remove some of her posts and whatever else was done.

I'm going to have to look her up. I honestly have the Worst memory for names. I live in a small town and Everybody seems to know mine (being the notorious hippie that I am, lol) but I sure don't know theirs! I try though, I really do.
I do remember Alice whats'er but only because her posts were often inexplicably bizzare and that made me think of the whole through the looking glass thing...
I remember yours because Curator used to call you 'nanners. LOL, see, I do remember a Few names at least! Only took me a couple of years too, ha ha.

I guess you're not kidding, Coco. Wow, I am surprised because she was very active here for a while. She liked to tweak you, it seems.

Paul, thx matey and yes, he's still a troll

Coco, I have been here longer than 2009, though I'm not sure how much longer, maybe 2007 or 8. You remember when there was that immense crash where no-one could logon for weeks, and then we had to join all over again. At least that's how I think it was. Correct me if that's not right.

Oh, the name is familiar BW but I can't associate it with a specific personality. I don't know how to use the search function for members here either, I tried but got nothing.

Geo, yes, I think there was more than one crash like that but the specifics are hazy for me. I don't know if my memory isn't what it used to be or if I only pay attention to the details I'm interested in and that's all that sticks, lol. Like I know Mother's day is coming up because I saw a sign today and you'd think, having had a mother for 40 years and being one myself for 11, that I'd remember there was such a thing and when it is on my own but nope. I don't care about those sorts of occasions so my mind just kind of drops them. It's like learning to ignore the annoying noise your kids make when they get really incessantly loud, I've learned to ignore mental noise just as easily. As though it isn't even happening.
That's not such a nice way to feel about people's names though is it... I'm terrible .

We remember what we remember Coco, and I tend to let alot go by the wayside as it's just wasted energy, filing every little thing away. I also agree with you about FB, and you can NEVER delete your page. I've tried in the past, and when I tried to register again a year later, they said I'd already registered and up came my old page etc. So, in my opinion it's a trap, and you can't join any little application without allowing the authors access to all your personal data. That really blows, cause if a friend invites you to join one of these things, and you don't, they can take it personally.

BW, you might be interested in the above too. FB has some good security options so we can choose who can see our 'stuff'. Just go to your 'account' and well, you get the picture, as it isn't hard to do. Due to my family circumstances and for privacy reasons, I've opted out of FB for now, but I know if I logon, all my stuff will be just where I left it. I believe that we should have the option to delete our occount indefinately.

And oh BW, I've been deliberating whether to say anything or not, as I don't want to perpetuate this erroneous idea of a 'clique' on this forum. Like Coco said (I think), we naturally gravitate towards people that we've known for some time, esp if we've met them in the flesh or that we have various things in common that have been made evident through conversing on this forum etc. However, I couldn't help but notice that after Paul had replied to my post, you took him to task over his invite to FB. I don't see how it matters if some of us communicate through other avenues, as some have mentioned meeting at various venues, whether it be in the flesh at a raw food seminar, email or FB etc. And why not send a PM when it seems inappropriate to discuss an issue in public. I believe that you too, have sent me PM's BW, after a little rangle on here. Does that make you part of an 'inner circle' too?

Whether we get along with some more than others, is not the problem, as IMO the main factor is whether we treat everyone on here equally, with respect, affording them the dignity that is their right, correct? And as far as maturity goes, your last response to Paul (6.33pm), well, I don't think I need to say more about that....So, now I suppose I may be labelled, but I feel that since I too was involved in the 'troll' incident, and that Paul, in part, was replying to my post concerning it, then all this also concerns me personally to some degree, if not indirectly.

I try to respect everyone's opinion that posts here, even when I don't agree with them. Like I've said previously, that's ok, and I also respect you BW. You have said kind words to me in support of my tribulations, so I thank you for that. Furthermore, you have helped clarify many things for me over the years, or made me think more about and/or re-evaluate my own beliefs re diet etc.

So I hope we all can still remain friends, and continue to enjoy the company of forum members who, with their own unique life experiences, are willing to share these, that we all should grow in knowledge and appreciation of the benefits of a raw food lifestyle.

Peace, respect and enlightenment to us all.

#1) All Trolls are Sick & Dis-Connected.
#2) Some Trolls act on their own and are not happy unless they can make others unhappy.
#3) Some Trolls are actually hired by the Psychopaths who Rule the World and love to swim in Chaos and their plan of attack is Divide & Conquer.

Divide and Conquer is an old Formula the Pharos used thousands of years ago to keep their Slaves Distracted and getting us to fight among ourselves is a technique that is still being used today to keep us Distracted and not be able to recognize the obvious.

I’m sure that everyone remembers the "I've Been to the Mountaintop" speech given by Martin Luther King 24 hours before he was murdered in 1968, but how many of y’all remember this passage?

• “Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity.”

Once again, Psychopaths swim in Chaos and their plan of attack is Divide & Conquer. Here are some of my notes to that amazing 37 Minute must see Documentary, Defense Against the Psychopath [www.youtube.com] !

Part Three

The Psychopath’s Modus Operandi

One weakness Psychopaths have is that once one studies them and begins to understand them, they become predictable. While tactics vary from one to another, most Psychopaths follow a similar Strategy when Conning either an Individual or an Organization.

Their Startegy is as follows:

Their Startegy is as follows:

1) The Interview
2) The Seduction
3) Divide and Conquer
4) Fear and Tyranny

…

3) Divide and Conquer

Just as a Pride of Lions will seek to separate a targeted Wildebeest from the rest of the Herd, so Psychopaths seek to isolate their Victims from the rest of Humanity. They accomplish this through the tactic of Divide and Conquer.

In a Personal Relationship, the Psychopath will sabotage and undermine his or her Victim’s Relationships with Family and Friends. Exacerbated by the Negative Drama and Costs associated with the Victim their Friends and Family drop out of contact leaving the Victim without the Support and Guidance of their Social Group.

In an Organizational Setting, Psychopaths are the consummate Office Politicians. They seek to create Factions within the Organization and then, turn those Factions against each other to create as much Chaos as possible. Psychopaths swim in Chaos and the more the better. Secretly, they start to draw the Gullible, Weak Minded and fellow Psychopaths to their side while intensifying their efforts to have the most talented, honest and incorruptible members, ones that could have the Strength of Character to Expose them Expelled. They Poison the Environment in a variety of ways so that everyone Feels Irritable, Edgy and Unable to perform their jobs. Control of the Organization slips into the hands of the Source behind the Dysfunction - the Psychopath who created it all.

…

Since I started a recent Thread connecting T. C. Fry with the Psychopaths, it only seems fitting that I close with something he once said, "When people in the same canoe fight, they're likely to capsize and both sides lose."

Peace and Love……….John

Geo, did you know that I wrote that remark (now deleted) in response to this one by Paul:

"PMs are for people who are intelligent enough to know they have something personal to say to the people they have issues with that are not appropriate for the general membership. Only a fool fights in a burning barn. G'day BW"

Do you think it's appropriate to say such a thing? I hardly "took him to task" by noting that he mentioned FB! I was defending an earlier post regarding Heavens Hands, who was the one mentioning a clique! I just validated his opinion. When I sent you that PM, I just wanted to let you know that I understood your position. It was a rare event for me. I never said I have never PM'd anyone but we've been down this road before where some people seem to do a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff.

Honestly, I think there is some idea that I am complaining about not communicating on FB with others. That is quite humorous to me as I do not have a FB account (a real one with my name). I detest it precisely because of the nonsense which permeates 95% of it and most boards and sites. I like to go online for information and not drama.

Geo, about FB privacy settings, my point is that they can, and have been, compromised. As I stated, I saw someone's wall and I know she was very private in her settings. I wasn't even her friend and was able to read everything she'd written in the past year! FB has gotten slammed for their laxness. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Hey John, I checked out that link, and it's quite interesting how it explains why there has been so much inhumanity towards people over the centuries. I always thought that certain leaders in positions of power were actually mad, such as Hitler, who was definately a psychopath. It's not hard to understand how a person who has no empathy or conscience would rocket to the front of the pack. Surely, there are greater safe guards in place to prevent such psycho's from gaining power these days, at least in the Western world.

Returning to the subject of this thread, another thing that I noticed was that as soon as all this troll talk began on the 'juicing forum', certain members who were either new, or irregular posters made an appearance. The phenomenon continued over on this forum too. Hmmm, that's interesting, I wonder why that is, and I also wonder if they will stay?

Oh well, whatever, and perhaps it's time we put the subject to bed too.

So if you Defend an Accused Troll that Makes You a Troll, also?

Or Just a Troll Denier?

Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore. We must be in Salem."

BW, so I take it you feel Paul called you a 'fool', so you reacted the way you did due to that; although, personally I didn't interpret it that way when I read it. Also, it seems that more than one post has been deleted. I didn't know we could do that.

It's very bad form for FB to have such a security breach, and as you must have read, I'm not a fan either. The consumer has less and less control, but the way it's going, with businesses signing on cause it's free, it may force people/businesses into joining to be competitive.

Anyway, that's me for this thread, outa here.

Oh, that is of course unless we have more to discuss BW. But look, if I've misunderstood you, then I apologise.

Back to the subject at hand - the Accusation that JohnA is a Troll --

JohnA was stating that BPA and BPB in Plastic is 'Bad'. And Glass is Preferable.

Ummm....isn't that what we all also 'believe'? I was under the impression that we all shared that opinion.

So how does one stating that Plastic is Bad, equate to being 'a Troll'?

Is it because he didn't give references to something that's general knowledge on a Raw Food Board?

So is he a Troll Working for a Big Glass, going around to Discussion Boards and Spreading Propaganda about Plastic.

I think a serious Character Assassination has been made and this should not be taken lightly.

We need the Troll Patrol and I call for a Full Investigation. Where's the Evidence?

Is it Guilty Until Proven Innocent?

*********

P.S. - I just checked in to the Juicing Forum, and see that he's still posting -- I feel like we're talking about him behind his back. I think he's owed an apology.

Closure?

How about we let this thread die a quiet death now, eh? It's fairly exhausted, why bother to resurrect it? Let go ~ ~ ~

Ivac,

I was clear to John A and that should be clear enough to you too. Agree with Coco. Gonna let this die.

Paul



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 08:11PM by pborst.

It hasn't been Resolved, and JohnA hasn't had the Opportunity to Speak in His Own Defense. He's been Tried and Found Guilty without being Present at the Inquest.



He wasn't even Served Notice of the Examination. Is this Fair? Let's take a Vote?

I Vote Not-Guilty.

His Reputation has been Destroyed....

Prana,
Lock it.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prana,
> Lock it.


We can "lock" this up ourselves. If nobody responds, this thread dies a good death. Why beat a dead horse? Agree to disagree, issue and awareness raised. Enough, yes?

I'm not sure what point you are making Coco. what is it we are agreeing to disagree on ?

Who is or is not a troll. I have not made up my mind entirely though I do agree the initial post was "off". Regardless, I appreciated raising the awareness about what to do about suspected trolls and trollish posts. #1 is ignore, #2 report. Good policy to follow.